Scientology and the Aftermath

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Is anyone watching this Documentary Series on A&E called "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath"?

I'm finding it rather fascinating and alarming that such a young "Religion" has so much power.

Just wondering if anyone else has been watching this.

[GMDino]

(12-10-2016, 06:29 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Is anyone watching this Documentary Series on A&E called "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath"?

I'm finding it rather fascinating and alarming that such a young "Religion" has so much power.

Just wondering if anyone else has been watching this.

Yes, but in bits and pieces.

All religion has that much power of its believers.

We just call the younger ones cults.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-10-2016, 06:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes, but in bits and pieces.

All religion has that much power of its believers.

We just call the younger ones cults.

I don't think that's a fair comparison, unless we are talking the Christianity in the middle ages.

Scientology seems to be mostly a ponzi scheme built around the cult, I mean religion, of celebrity.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

What is the difference between a religion and a "religion"?

[*bfine32*]

(12-10-2016, 11:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What is the difference between a religion and a "religion"?

I think the biggest difference is that Scientology isn't based on faith. It is more  based on self-awareness.  

[fredtoast]

The Church of Scientology kicked the IRS's ass.

I figured a lot of people here would love them for that.

[fredtoast]

(12-10-2016, 11:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the biggest difference is that Scientology isn't based on faith. It is more  based on self-awareness.  

Scientology is 100% based on faith that the church has the ultimate answer to everything.  You just have to pay a lot of money to get that answer.

Scientology charges a flat fee while Christianity works for tips.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-11-2016, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Scientology charges a flat fee while Christianity works for tips.

LOL that's pretty good....although Scientology might be more of a subscription service.

[hollodero]

(12-10-2016, 11:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the biggest difference is that Scientology isn't based on faith. It is more  based on self-awareness.  

So let's see... Humans are physical bodies inhabited by thetans, immortal soullike entities that carry all identity, self-awareness (there you go) and are responsible for all interaction. Thetans have many past lifes that are somehow accessible if you reach an advanced level (which you reach by giving money). 
Now thetans have willed themeselves to exist 3 trillion years ago. Then they created space by adding every single perspective into the imagination of the whole, that being the universe, that of course only exists based on agreement amongst all thetans. Sure. How comes "we" don't know? It's because thetans were too bored to know everything and experience no surprise, that's why. So "perceptions" got "not-is-ed", which means knowledge got deliberately suppressed. Again, you can throw money at this to access some forgotten things - that's "potential".

That whole forgetting, of course, escalated quickly and thetans started turning against each other as a consequence. Now that's just logical. It cumulated in "Incident II". 
Xenu, well-known boss of a Galactic Confederacy (26 suns, 76 planets), had a hard time - we write 75 million years before now, although people lived quite exactly like people did here in the '60s (except for that whole space conquering thing, of course). His empire was overpopulated, his throne was questioned. So he tricked people. Disguised as an income tax collector, his people came to the citizen's doors, paralysed them and deep-froze them in glykol and alcohol to capture their souls (you know, exactly like the Democrats plan to do with gun owners). He then took those captured thetans and threw them into the volcanoes of Teegeeack, which some of you might also know as Earth. He then threw hydrogen bombs into the volcanoes to kill all but a few bodies. Brilliant plan.

Now the thetans that survived (and sure they did, they're immortal) - again - got captured by Xenu (it gets a bit boring there) using an electronic ribbon to suck them into vacuum zones. Then they were shipped to Las Palmas and Hawaii. Here they had to watch a 3D movie (yes, a 3D movie, not just any old movie) for 36 days. There all the lies got planted into the thetans, especially Catholicism, but in fact all sorts of demagogue stuff.
These thetans lost their sense of distinguishing each other, and honestly, who wouldn't. They clustered in thousands and then entered the remaining alive bodies from all the hydrogen/volcano thing. These are "body thetans" and, unlike the hidden potential of yourself type of thetans you all are, are "bad" thetans that need to go away. Sure thing.
Shortly after, Xenu was captured by a government group called  "Loyal Officers" (although the first word seems a bit off) - probably becasuse of his obvious insanity and numerous completely pointless deeds, but I can only speculate here. Nevertheless. Teegeeack remained a prison, so Xenus actions were kind of confirmed after the regime change anyways.

Now if you wonder what Incident I was - there the unsuspecting thetans had to suffer hearing loud snapping noises and a flood of light. Followed by a chariot. Followed by a trumpeting cherub (now that makes sense). Then some more noises and finally total darkness. Traumatizing. And a bit strange, since virtually everything was created based on the thetan's perspective points and so there could have been "no surprises" around 4 quadrillion years ago (when this inexplainable thing happened to the all-knowing creators of everything), so there's that. Again, first money, then questions, I guess.

There's one person surviving Incident II unharmed. L. Ron Hubbard. That's why he knows. I don't know how that whole "surviving" works given the described circumstances, but then again, I didn't spend the money.

---- Now say what you want, but it takes A LOT of faith to believe in these kind of stories. After you paid 100.000 dollars to reach a level where you can finally spend the paltry sum of 6.500 Dollars to learn it. Sure, you could have used Wikipedia, but that's for poor suckers, right? But believing THAT. That's faith.

(And also don't get me wrong, but all other religious background stories are just as wacky to me than this one, so well.)

[BengalHawk62]

(12-13-2016, 05:48 PM)hollodero Wrote: So let's see... Humans are physical bodies inhabited by thetans, immortal soullike entities that carry all identity, self-awareness (there you go) and are responsible for all interaction. Thetans have many past lifes that are somehow accessible if you reach an advanced level (which you reach by giving money). 
Now thetans have willed themeselves to exist 3 trillion years ago. Then they created space by adding every single perspective into the imagination of the whole, that being the universe, that of course only exists based on agreement amongst all thetans. Sure. How comes "we" don't know? It's because thetans were too bored to know everything and experience no surprise, that's why. So "perceptions" got "not-is-ed", which means knowledge got deliberately suppressed. Again, you can throw money at this to access some forgotten things - that's "potential".

That whole forgetting, of course, escalated quickly and thetans started turning against each other as a consequence. Now that's just logical. It cumulated in "Incident II". 
Xenu, well-known boss of a Galactic Confederacy (26 suns, 76 planets), had a hard time - we write 75 million years before now, although people lived quite exactly like people did here in the '60s (except for that whole space conquering thing, of course). His empire was overpopulated, his throne was questioned. So he tricked people. Disguised as an income tax collector, his people came to the citizen's doors, paralysed them and deep-froze them in glykol and alcohol to capture their souls (you know, exactly like the Democrats plan to do with gun owners). He then took those captured thetans and threw them into the volcanoes of Teegeeack, which some of you might also know as Earth. He then threw hydrogen bombs into the volcanoes to kill all but a few bodies. Brilliant plan.

Now the thetans that survived (and sure they did, they're immortal) - again - got captured by Xenu (it gets a bit boring there) using an electronic ribbon to suck them into vacuum zones. Then they were shipped to Las Palmas and Hawaii. Here they had to watch a 3D movie (yes, a 3D movie, not just any old movie) for 36 days. There all the lies got planted into the thetans, especially Catholicism, but in fact all sorts of demagogue stuff.
These thetans lost their sense of distinguishing each other, and honestly, who wouldn't. They clustered in thousands and then entered the remaining alive bodies from all the hydrogen/volcano thing. These are "body thetans" and, unlike the hidden potential of yourself type of thetans you all are, are "bad" thetans that need to go away. Sure thing.
Shortly after, Xenu was captured by a government group called  "Loyal Officers" (although the first word seems a bit off) - probably becasuse of his obvious insanity and numerous completely pointless deeds, but I can only speculate here. Nevertheless. Teegeeack remained a prison, so Xenus actions were kind of confirmed after the regime change anyways.

Now if you wonder what Incident I was - there the unsuspecting thetans had to suffer hearing loud snapping noises and a flood of light. Followed by a chariot. Followed by a trumpeting cherub (now that makes sense). Then some more noises and finally total darkness. Traumatizing. And a bit strange, since virtually everything was created based on the thetan's perspective points and so there could have been "no surprises" around 4 quadrillion years ago (when this inexplainable thing happened to the all-knowing creators of everything), so there's that. Again, first money, then questions, I guess.

There's one person surviving Incident II unharmed. L. Ron Hubbard. That's why he knows. I don't know how that whole "surviving" works given the described circumstances, but then again, I didn't spend the money.

---- Now say what you want, but it takes A LOT of faith to believe in these kind of stories. After you paid 100.000 dollars to reach a level where you can finally spend the paltry sum of 6.500 Dollars to learn it. Sure, you could have used Wikipedia, but that's for poor suckers, right? But believing THAT. That's faith.

(And also don't get me wrong, but all other religious background stories are just as wacky to me than this one, so well.)

Sounds like the plot to Eraserhead.

[xxlt]

(12-10-2016, 06:29 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Is anyone watching this Documentary Series on A&E called "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath"?

I'm finding it rather fascinating and alarming that such a young "Religion" has so much power.

Just wondering if anyone else has been watching this.

No, but I live about 20 minutes from global HQ for this cult. And some of the members are indeed frightening. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-14-2016, 07:38 PM)xxlt Wrote: No, but I live about 20 minutes from global HQ for this cult. And some of the members are indeed frightening. 

No kidding?  I went to HS about 20 minutes from the Global HQ of The Way.  We always thought that those were some strange folks, as well..

[Mike M (the other one)]

bits and pieces here and there.
Crazy how they push things to the legal limit to harass people that want out.

[xxlt]

(12-14-2016, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No kidding?  I went to HS about 20 minutes from the Global HQ of The Way.  We always thought that those were some strange folks, as well..

Yeah, no kidding. There are everal multimillion dollar businesses they run in the area too.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-14-2016, 07:38 PM)xxlt Wrote: No, but I live about 20 minutes from global HQ for this cult. And some of the members are indeed frightening. 

I live less than one minute from the "Celebrity Center".  It's not the members that are frightening so much as the organization itself.  Indentured servitude, cult like adherence to secrecy, vicious and organized attacks against detractors or former members.  The whole thing is as odious as it is worrying.  Look up, all of you, the concept of "Fair game" as it applies to Scientology.  Research SeaOrg.  Check out http://www.xenu.net/ for more information.  The guy does a very good job of reporting facts.

[xxlt]

(12-15-2016, 12:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I live less than one minute from the "Celebrity Center".  It's not the members that are frightening so much as the organization itself.  Indentured servitude, cult like adherence to secrecy, vicious and organized attacks against detractors or former members.  The whole thing is as odious as it is worrying.  Look up, all of you, the concept of "Fair game" as it applies to Scientology.  Research SeaOrg.  Check out http://www.xenu.net/ for more information.  The guy does a very good job of reporting facts.

I am trying to figure out if I agree with your distinction.

The organization does not exist without members, right? I get what you are saying, I think. The ideology is deeply disturbing. So was the Jim Jones ideology, but now that there are no adherents to it, it isn't so concerning. This is not to diminish the tragedy of the mass suicide in Guyana, but just to point out that the ideology effectively died with the members of the cult. Nothing in any of Hubbard's books or any of the Scientology centers would be frightening if it weren't for the people who act out the bizarre ideas such as "fair game." To put it another way, when Adolf was sitting in a room somewhere brooding and practicing speeches and drafting Mein Kampf, we had a sick man developing a sick ideology. But the organization of "the third Reich" doesn't come to pass because he wrote bylaws for a party and conceived the organization. It came to pass because members bought in. So, I still think I would say it was the members that were more frightening than the organization of the Nazi Party or the organization of Scientology.

I guess at some level the two - members and organization - are inseparable. But I am still not sure if I think your distinction is correct. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-15-2016, 12:41 PM)xxlt Wrote: I am trying to figure out if I agree with your distinction.

The organization does not exist without members, right? I get what you are saying, I think. The ideology is deeply disturbing. So was the Jim Jones ideology, but now that there are no adherents to it, it isn't so concerning. This is not to diminish the tragedy of the mass suicide in Guyana, but just to point out that the ideology effectively died with the members of the cult. Nothing in any of Hubbard's books or any of the Scientology centers would be frightening if it weren't for the people who act out the bizarre ideas such as "fair game." To put it another way, when Adolf was sitting in a room somewhere brooding and practicing speeches and drafting Mein Kampf, we had a sick man developing a sick ideology. But the organization of "the third Reich" doesn't come to pass because he wrote bylaws for a party and conceived the organization. It came to pass because members bought in. So, I still think I would say it was the members that were more frightening than the organization of the Nazi Party or the organization of Scientology.

I guess at some level the two - members and organization - are inseparable. But I am still not sure if I think your distinction is correct. 

I see what you're getting at.  In essence the members and the organization are synonymous.  To put a finer point on it, the established members, the leadership, make up the organization with newer members being the cause of my distinction.  Once fully indoctrinated, and yes I realize that sounds overly dramatic, you could include them in "the organization".  Additionally, you are also correct that the writings of Hubbard, which aside from bad sci-fi consists of ham fisted self help texts, do not inherently lend themselves to the unsavory practices of modern scientology.  Those are largely creations of "the organization".

[xxlt]

(12-15-2016, 01:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I see what you're getting at.  In essence the members and the organization are synonymous.  To put a finer point on it, the established members, the leadership, make up the organization with newer members being the cause of my distinction.  Once fully indoctrinated, and yes I realize that sounds overly dramatic, you could include them in "the organization".  Additionally, you are also correct that the writings of Hubbard, which aside from bad sci-fi consists of ham fisted self help texts, do not inherently lend themselves to the unsavory practices of modern scientology.  Those are largely creations of "the organization".

Ham fisted indeed, and no pancake!