Secret America: JSOC

[Devils Advocate]

Quote:....The president has given JSOC the rare authority to select individuals for its kill list — and then to kill, rather than capture, them....

Source

[*michaelsean*]

Seems pretty logical that people on a kill list are not captured, and I have no problem with it. My guess is we've been doing this since 1776.

[Beaker]

I bet the JSOC one doesn't match mine.

[Rotobeast]

CACI & Xe caused too much flack, so they've been pumping more $$$ into the multi-national unit that can escape the scrutiny. The boys get the job done and mighty well.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-22-2015, 02:51 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: CACI & Xe caused too much flack, so they've been pumping more $$$ into the multi-national unit that can escape the scrutiny.  The boys get the job done and mighty well.  

Who is that in your avatar?

[Rotobeast]

(07-22-2015, 10:52 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Who is that in your avatar?

Mike Vining.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/sgm-mike-vining

[*michaelsean*]

(07-22-2015, 11:57 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Mike Vining.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/sgm-mike-vining

So next time someone is thinking of picking a fight with a kinda nerdy looking guy, they may want to think twice.

[Rotobeast]

(07-22-2015, 12:04 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So next time someone is thinking of picking a fight with a kinda nerdy looking guy, they may want to think twice.

Precisely !
Mike was on Schwarzkopf's security detail, during the first Iraq war.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-22-2015, 02:51 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: CACI & Xe caused too much flack, so they've been pumping more $$$ into the multi-national unit that can escape the scrutiny.  The boys get the job done and mighty well.  

Thanks for the avatar info.  CACI and Xe are privately owned civilian companies.  JSOC is a part of SOCOM and both are a part of the U.S. military.  I'm not aware of either unit being multi-national. JSOC and SOCOM receive funding via defense spending while CACI and Xe do not as I understand it. Do you know something I don't?

[Rotobeast]

(07-22-2015, 02:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Thanks for the avatar info.  CACI and Xe are privately owned civilian companies.  JSOC is a part of SOCOM and both are a part of the U.S. military.  I'm not aware of either unit being multi-national. JSOC and SOCOM receive funding via defense spending while CACI and Xe do not as I understand it. Do you know something I don't?

I'm sorry I was not more clear.
The US used to use the Private Military Contractors (CACI/Xe), but were scrutinized when they used a few "non-desired" tactics.
However, JSOC still has worked in conjunction with PMCs.
I misspoke concerning them being a multi-national unit.
They merely work closely with other country's special forces and train foreign armies.
I think I just got one of my buddies' stories mixed up.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-23-2015, 01:31 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: I'm sorry I was not more clear.
The US used to use the Private Military Contractors (CACI/Xe), but were scrutinized when they used a few "non-desired" tactics.
However, JSOC still has worked in conjunction with PMCs.
I misspoke concerning them being a multi-national unit.
They merely work closely with other country's special forces and train foreign armies.
I think I just got one of my buddies' stories mixed up.

JSOC specializes in counterterrorism. They are door kickers.  Private military contractors like Blackwater/Xe provide(d) security. I am unaware of Blackwater/Xe conducting covert door kicking missions. Are you claiming they conducted Delta/Devgru type missions?  Blackwater didn't run into trouble due to "non-desired" tactics, but rather a lack of fire control.

[Rotobeast]

(07-23-2015, 08:59 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: JSOC specializes in counterterrorism. They are door kickers.  Private military contractors like Blackwater/Xe provide(d) security. I am unaware of Blackwater/Xe conducting covert door kicking missions. Are you claiming they conducted Delta/Devgru type missions?  Blackwater didn't run into trouble due to "non-desired" tactics, but rather a lack of fire control.

Per Wikipedia: According to a November 2009 report in The Nation, JSOC, in tandem with Blackwater/Xe, has an ongoing drone program, along with snatch/grab/assassination operations, based in Karachi and conducted both in and outside of Pakistan.

The "non-desired" tactics was a way to not get descript and not get too in-depth.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-23-2015, 12:29 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Per Wikipedia: According to a November 2009 report in The Nation, JSOC, in tandem with Blackwater/Xe, has an ongoing drone program, along with snatch/grab/assassination operations, based in Karachi and conducted both in and outside of Pakistan.

The "non-desired" tactics was a way to not get descript and not get too in-depth.

That information is from this article...http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-us-war-pakistan/

Here are some excerpts...

Quote:In addition to planning drone strikes and operations against suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban forces in Pakistan for both JSOC and the CIA, the Blackwater team in Karachi also helps plan missions for JSOC inside Uzbekistan against the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, according to the military intelligence source. Blackwater does not actually carry out the operations, he said, which are executed on the ground by JSOC forces.
 
Blackwater, according to the military intelligence source, is not doing the actual killing as part of its work in Pakistan. “The SELECT personnel are not going into places with private aircraft and going after targets,” he said. “It’s not like Blackwater SELECT people are running around assassinating people.” Instead, US Special Forces teams carry out the plans developed in part by Blackwater. The military intelligence source drew a distinction between the Blackwater operatives who work for the State Department, which he calls “Blackwater Vanilla,” and the seasoned Special Forces veterans who work on the JSOC program. “Good or bad, there’s a small number of people who know how to pull off an operation like that. That’s probably a good thing,” said the source. “It’s the Blackwater SELECT people that have and continue to plan these types of operations because they’re the only people that know how and they went where the money was. It’s not trigger-happy *****, like some of the PSD [Personal Security Detail] guys. These are not people that believe that Barack Obama is a socialist, these are not people that kill innocent civilians. They’re very good at what they do.”

Blackwater was allegedly involved "in part" with the planning, not the execution of missions.  Also, when an investigative reporter consistently confuses "Special Forces" for "Special Operations Forces" (SF vs. SOF), I take everything they report with a grain of salt because they can't report details accurately.

Quote:The former Blackwater executive, when asked for confirmation that Blackwater forces were not actively killing people in Pakistan, said, “that’s not entirely accurate.” While he concurred with the military intelligence source’s description of the JSOC and CIA programs, he pointed to another role Blackwater is allegedly playing in Pakistan, not for the US government but for Islamabad. According to the executive, Blackwater works on a subcontract for Kestral Logistics, a powerful Pakistani firm, which specializes in military logistical support, private security and intelligence consulting.

Blackwater allegedly subcontracts for a Pakistani civilian military contractor that does work for the Pakistani military and intelligence community inside of Pakistan.  I would view that sort of relationship as a potential OPSEC threat.

Quote:The military intelligence source also confirmed that Blackwater continues to work for the CIA on its drone bombing program in Pakistan, as previously reported in the New York Times, but added that Blackwater is working on JSOC’s drone bombings as well. “It’s Blackwater running the program for both CIA and JSOC,” said the source.

That implies Blackwater was in charge of both the CIA's and JSOC's drone programs or at least operating without oversight.  In my opinion, that's complete bullshit.

Quote:In addition to working on covert action planning and drone strikes, Blackwater SELECT also provides private guards to perform the sensitive task of security for secret US drone bases, JSOC camps and Defense Intelligence Agency camps inside Pakistan, according to the military intelligence source.

That sounds about right.

Quote:JSOC controls the Army’s Delta Force, the Navy’s SEAL Team 6, as well as the Army’s 75th Ranger Regiment and 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, and the Air Force’s 24th Special Tactics Squadron. JSOC performs strike operations, reconnaissance in denied areas and special intelligence missions. Blackwater, which was founded by former Navy SEALs, employs scores of veteran Special Forces operators–which several former military officials pointed to as the basis for Blackwater’s alleged contracts with JSOC.

 
The 75th Ranger Regiment and 160 aren't part of JSOC, both are part of USASOC and all three are a part of USSOCOM.  JSOC only commands elements of the 75th and 160 when they are attached to a JSOC task force.  Again, the author confuses "Special Forces" with "Special Operations Forces."  If a dumbass like me corrects the facts,  what does that say about the reporter?

Quote:“They make much more money being the smarts of these operations, planning hits in various countries and basing it off their experience in Chechnya, Bosnia, Somalia, Ethiopia,” said the military intelligence source. “They were there for all of these things, they know what the hell they’re talking about. And JSOC has unfortunately lost the institutional capability to plan within, so they hire back people that used to work for them and had already planned and executed these [types of] operations. They hired back people that jumped over to Blackwater SELECT and then pay them exorbitant amounts of money to plan future operations. It’s a ridiculous revolving door.”

I don't see a problem hiring former SOF to contribute their experience and knowledge to assist planning counter-terrorism missions.  I don't doubt former SOF are being used in that capacity.  But, to claim JSOC doesn't have the capability to plan from within borders on the absurd.  Another thing which strikes me as odd is the revolving door of former SOF to Blackwater with alleged security clearance problems doing the same job they did before with access to the same level of intelligence they had while in the military, but for more money as a civilian.

[Rotobeast]

(07-23-2015, 08:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That information is from this article...http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-us-war-pakistan/

Here are some excerpts...


Blackwater was allegedly involved "in part" with the planning, not the execution of missions.  Also, when an investigative reporter consistently confuses "Special Forces" for "Special Operations Forces" (SF vs. SOF), I take everything they report with a grain of salt because they can't report details accurately.


Blackwater allegedly subcontracts for a Pakistani civilian military contractor that does work for the Pakistani military and intelligence community inside of Pakistan.  I would view that sort of relationship as a potential OPSEC threat.


That implies Blackwater was in charge of both the CIA's and JSOC's drone programs or at least operating without oversight.  In my opinion, that's complete bullshit.


That sounds about right.

 
The 75th Ranger Regiment and 160 aren't part of JSOC, both are part of USASOC and all three are a part of USSOCOM.  JSOC only commands elements of the 75th and 160 when they are attached to a JSOC task force.  Again, the author confuses "Special Forces" with "Special Operations Forces."  If a dumbass like me corrects the facts,  what does that say about the reporter?


I don't see a problem hiring former SOF to contribute their experience and knowledge to assist planning counter-terrorism missions.  I don't doubt former SOF are being used in that capacity.  But, to claim JSOC doesn't have the capability to plan from within borders on the absurd.  Another thing which strikes me as odd is the revolving door of former SOF to Blackwater with alleged security clearance problems doing the same job they did before with access to the same level of intelligence they had while in the military, but for more money as a civilian.

Say... thanks for the once over !
I didn't have time to read into the article.
I would have to say that I agree with you, on most (if not all) of your points.
The author doesn't really seem overly trustworthy.
I don't have any military experience, just some buddies that have done some interesting stuff.
Had you served ?
Just curious, you don't have to disclose (opsec & all).