Sen. John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer

[jmccracky]

I was bat*hit crazy liberal in 2000, but I was a McCain guy. Like SSF, I too, wonder where we would be if we had McCain instead of Bush. I also agree with Gmdino regarding Dubya. 

[ballsofsteel]

(07-20-2017, 07:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting.  My father didn't talk about it much but he was always angrier at the people who self-righteously sent him over there than anything that happened when he got back.  He died of brain cancer, too so double points for relevance in this thread.

Then again, I do recall a certain Vietnam vet who ran against Bush getting lambasted by people.

Hey Nate, sorry about your dad. That is sad. 55000 American men dead, for what?
I forgot about Kerry.

[Belsnickel]

(07-20-2017, 07:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting.  My father didn't talk about it much but he was always angrier at the people who self-righteously sent him over there than anything that happened when he got back.  He died of brain cancer, too so double points for relevance in this thread.

Then again, I do recall a certain Vietnam vet who ran against Bush getting lambasted by people.

My father is an odd duck. For all of my youth there was not much discussion about it. He didn't join any organizations for veterans, he was much more like what you describe as your father. Then he was diagnosed with CLL and it was linked to his time in the service. For 15 years this upcoming Thanksgiving, he has joined groups online and off, wears a Vietnam Vet hat all the time, etc., etc. He has 100% disability from the VA, and I have a feeling that this change in his attitude towards his time in service is an effort to make himself seem less like just another sick old man. He never used to be proud of his service, but now it gives him a sense of worth in an effort to make up for physical limitations.

Now, he didn't experience the type of return home that some of the others he knows did. He had the benefit of not flying into a civilian airport when he came home. But I've heard enough stories from others at the meetings to know that these things happened when they got home.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-20-2017, 07:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting.  My father didn't talk about it much but he was always angrier at the people who self-righteously sent him over there than anything that happened when he got back.  He died of brain cancer, too so double points for relevance in this thread.

Then again, I do recall a certain Vietnam vet who ran against Bush getting lambasted by people.

Kerry made the "unforgivable mistake" of speaking his mind once he left the military.  My issue with Vietnam is less that we fought there but more how we fought.  I know others have different opinions on this, but the North was the invader in that scenario.  Regardless, you don't send troops into war with one hand tied behind their back and the other around their balls.  You go to war you do everything in your power (short of nukes) to end the war as quickly as possible.  Having every restriction in the book on our soldiers had to be more demoralizing than anything that happened back home.  Hard to imagine a military can soundly defeat the enemy in every battle of consequence and still "lose" the war, but we managed it.

Sorry about you dad.  My father was there early in the war, '66 to '67 and then went back in early '72, being one of the last units to leave in '73.  Consequently, he didn't get exposed to agent orange or anything like that.

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2017, 08:20 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Hey Nate, sorry about your dad. That is sad. 55000 American men dead, for what?
I forgot about Kerry.

Yeah the way people reacted to Bush vs. Kerry and Trump vs. McCain really opened my eyes to how paper-thin the respect voters have for veterans can be.  My ol' man was quite the cynic and he always felt most people wear their appreciation for the military on their sleeve to make themselves feel good, not so much to actually make anyone who served feel good.

But hey, to each his own.  

[ballsofsteel]

Not to over simplify things but we got involved in Vietnam based on a lie (The Gulf of Tonkin incident) as was the second Gulf war. The money changers instructed the powers to be to start these involvements so they could make money. War is big business. Follow the money. Justifying starting a war is made easier with great slogans such as " Weapons of mass destruction". Sounds sinister don't it? We had to do something about that. Wonder who coined that slogan, Halliburton?

[ballsofsteel]

Speaking of Trump. I seen that him and Melania wished John McCain a speedy recovery and wished him well. Trump ran his campaign as being a business man not a politician and a Washington outsider. When you think about it though, Trump is really the ultimate politician. He can tear down. insult make fun of a politician one day, then come back and say what a great and outstanding person they are the next day. The flip then the flop. If I was the McCain family I would tell Trump to go F*** himself.

[Bengalzona]

The biggest reason why our involvement in Vietnam didn't work was because we were trying to prop up a regime that was so flawed and corrupt that it was universally rejected by its own people.

The South Vietnamese didn't necessarily want to be communist. But the alternative that we supported was the Diem Regime filled with nepotism and corruption and that represented only a tiny religious minority in the country: Catholicism. Diem's position became totally untenable in the early 60's when they began instituting policies that were oppressive to the country's Buddhist majority. Basically, South Vietnam spiraled into a civil war and the North Vietnamese decided to take advantage. We created an 'incident' to justify getting involved and sent troops over to "stop the spread of communism" by supporting the South Vietnamese government. But by that time, the South Vietnamese people had totally lost any faith in their government and the government went through a series of military led coups.

This was never going to turn out the way we wanted it to.

[Bengalzona]

(07-21-2017, 06:54 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Speaking of Trump. I seen that him and Melania wished John McCain a speedy recovery and wished him well. Trump ran his campaign as being a business man not a politician and a Washington outsider. When you think about it though, Trump is really the ultimate politician. He can tear down. insult make fun of a politician one day, then come back and say what a great and outstanding person they are the next day. The flip then the flop. If I was the McCain family I would tell Trump to go F*** himself.

Trump's supporters embrace him as something "new". But actually, his campaign reflects the "say anything" politicians of old. His opponents criticize him for that as many felt that U.S. politics were "beyond that". But the fact is that that kind of politics has always been effective to some degree, so it never really goes away.

[Devils Advocate]

Keating Five, chairman of the committee to suppress Vietnam info regarding POW's/MIA's, responsible for the death of dozens of airmen by nearly blowing up an aircraft carrier and sung like a bird to the Vietnamese upon his capture. No thanks.

He did attempt to regulate the sport of boxing, so there's that.

[masterpanthera_t]

As has been echoed by a few already, I too would have voted for McCain in 2000 if he had won the Republican primary. He showed an integrity and loyalty to principles which set him apart from politicians who value power over principle. His toughness and loyalty to endure what he did as a POW will forever put him on a pedestal for me. The fact that he was IIRC one of the first (if not the very first) to highlight campaign finance reform, only showed his principled approach and value of principle over self. I wonder how different the country would have been had he been elected. I would have gladly voted for McCain as President in 2000. The McCain of 2008, however, was a shell of the candidate that I remember from 8 years prior, but still would have likely received my vote, were it not for his VP selection, but that cemented the idea to me that he will not be my choice going forward.

Recently, he's showing his pugnacious side and speaking his mind in contrast to the tide of spinelessness shown by the rest of partisan Congress, which provided a semblance of true leadership. I hope he can buck the odds, and recover from this disease, but maybe having great healthcare improves his odds slightly over the average joe stricken with the same fate.

[THE Bigzoman]

1. All those jokes about him having a heart attack in office during his presidential bid were and are still funny, he's pretty damn old.
2. His brand of conservatism is a dying breed. For better or worse.
3. Cuk Fancer.

I didn't cuss this time. Don't ban me bro.

[StLucieBengal]

All this fawning over McCain is disgusting. He is a war mongering democrat who should have retired ages ago.

Yeah brain cancer sucks and all that but that doesn't excuse his terrible governance.

[*Nately120*]

(07-22-2017, 10:48 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: All this fawning over McCain is disgusting.   He is a war mongering democrat who should have retired ages ago.

Yeah brain cancer sucks and all that but that doesn't excuse his terrible governance.

I guess this post sums up just how pointless selling out his reasonable principles in an attempt to satiate the far right was. 

You forgot to point out what a loser of a veteran he was, too. 

[THE Bigzoman]

(07-20-2017, 06:44 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: The orange orangutan had the audacity to talk shit on John McCain. It didn't stop people from voting for him. This turns my stomach.

People look at modern politics with contempt these days.


Cancer sucks, but MCain is a representation of the career politicians people despise.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-22-2017, 04:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess this post sums up just how pointless selling out his reasonable principles in an attempt to satiate the far right was. 

You forgot to point out what a loser of a veteran he was, too. 

Why would I call him a loser of a veteran? What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

His only principles were to war and big government spending. He never met a country he didn't want to bomb/use military force or some big government boon doggle to waste our money.

Kelli Ward should have been the senator for Arizona this time.

[Bengalzona]

(07-22-2017, 06:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why would I call him a loser of a veteran?  What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?  

His only principles were to war and big government spending.    He never met a country he didn't want to bomb/use military force or some big government boon doggle to waste our money.  

Kelli Ward should have been the senator for Arizona this time.

The good people of Arizona don't want her. That's why the state Senate is as far as she has ever gotten. You can have her, she's a dam nutcase.

[Dill]

(07-20-2017, 09:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Kerry made the "unforgivable mistake" of speaking his mind once he left the military.  My issue with Vietnam is less that we fought there but more how we fought.  I know others have different opinions on this, but the North was the invader in that scenario.  Regardless, you don't send troops into war with one hand tied behind their back and the other around their balls.  You go to war you do everything in your power (short of nukes) to end the war as quickly as possible.  Having every restriction in the book on our soldiers had to be more demoralizing than anything that happened back home.  Hard to imagine a military can soundly defeat the enemy in every battle of consequence and still "lose" the war, but we managed it.

Why was the North the invader?

[StLucieBengal]

(07-22-2017, 08:07 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: The good people of Arizona don't want her. That's why the state Senate is as far as she has ever gotten. You can have her, she's a dam nutcase.

Fair enough. But the good people of Arizona picked McCain so who knows what to think on their judgement.

[Bengalzona]

(07-22-2017, 09:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Fair enough.   But the good people of Arizona picked McCain so who knows what to think on their judgement.

We feel pretty darn good about our judgement.