Serious Question for Trump voters/supporters. Are you embarrassed by anything yet?

[Belsnickel]

(08-05-2017, 11:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/20/us/not-my-presidents-day-protests/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/20/not-my-presidents-day-rallies/98151790/
etc

Not saying you have to love him or anything, but you pretending nobody is trying to deny the election is awfully silly. If people recognized he duly and legitimately elected, they wouldn't have rioted (there were non-Antifa riots) or held marches and protests of how he's not their President. If they accepted the results of the election, then they would accept that he's their President. That kind of goes hand-in-hand.

So would you say that every conservative that stated in 2008 onward that Obama was not there president, of which there were many, was not accepting the result of the election? All of those that held marches and protests against him while stating as such? I mean, it happened, maybe not to the degree we see now because as little experience as Obama had he was still a more palatable candidate to most than Trump, but it did happen with some frequency.

The whole "not my president" mantra was definitely the motto of many conservatives during the Obama era, and that is where it really got its start. I didn't vote for Obama, and I didn't vote for Trump, but I was never one of these people. I just have to say that the crying about folks saying this and trying to say they are not accepting the results of the election doesn't carry much weight when this is just a perpetuation of behavior from the other side of the aisle for 8 years that was never spoken out against by those trying to say it is bad now.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2017, 07:46 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So would you say that every conservative that stated in 2008 onward that Obama was not there president, of which there were many, was not accepting the result of the election? All of those that held marches and protests against him while stating as such? I mean, it happened, maybe not to the degree we see now because as little experience as Obama had he was still a more palatable candidate to most than Trump, but it did happen with some frequency.

The whole "not my president" mantra was definitely the motto of many conservatives during the Obama era, and that is where it really got its start. I didn't vote for Obama, and I didn't vote for Trump, but I was never one of these people. I just have to say that the crying about folks saying this and trying to say they are not accepting the results of the election doesn't carry much weight when this is just a perpetuation of behavior from the other side of the aisle for 8 years that was never spoken out against by those trying to say it is bad now.

Even as he was working toward his SECOND term some people were still saying he was ineligible to hold the office.

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 6, 2012

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2017, 07:46 AM)Belsnickel Wrote:
So would you say that every conservative that stated in 2008 onward that Obama was not there president, of which there were many, was not accepting the result of the election? All of those that held marches and protests against him while stating as such? I mean, it happened, maybe not to the degree we see now because as little experience as Obama had he was still a more palatable candidate to most than Trump, but it did happen with some frequency.

The whole "not my president" mantra was definitely the motto of many conservatives during the Obama era, and that is where it really got its start. I didn't vote for Obama, and I didn't vote for Trump, but I was never one of these people. I just have to say that the crying about folks saying this and trying to say they are not accepting the results of the election doesn't carry much weight when this is just a perpetuation of behavior from the other side of the aisle for 8 years that was never spoken out against by those trying to say it is bad now.

Yes I would. Aat least they weren't rioting, burning things, and attacking people, though. So while idiotic, still within their right to be idiots. Granted, the Republicans didn't spend the buildup to the 2008 election talking about how if the Democrats didn't accept the results of the election, it would be the end of democracy, and it would ruin our democracy, etc. So while still idiotic, at least not blatantly instantly hypocritical.

"They did it first, Mom!" Ah yes, that has always been a good excuse, even more so from the group that tries to claim moral/intellectual/educational superiority.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 01:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes I would. Aat least they weren't rioting, burning things, and attacking people, though. So while idiotic, still within their right to be idiots. Granted, the Republicans didn't spend the buildup to the 2008 election talking about how if the Democrats didn't accept the results of the election, it would be the end of democracy, and it would ruin our democracy, etc. So while still idiotic, at least not blatantly instantly hypocritical.

"They did it first, Mom!" Ah yes, that has always been a good excuse, even more so from the group that tries to claim moral/intellectual/educational superiority.

Establishment Democrats were a bit too comfortable and didn't expect what happened. Hell, most conservatives didn't expect what happened. There are no excuses for the behavior, I'm just pointing out that the right wing made their bed with their reaction to Obama, and now they have to lie in it.

[hollodero]

(08-06-2017, 01:15 AM)tigerseye Wrote: I'm embarrassed that the swamp didn't get the message from the US citizens and are now proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they are truly the cancer that is killing our nation.

I'm embarrassed that the swamp is using Mueller to come up with anything he can to stop what President Trump is doing.

The swamp is scared to death that their deeds will be investigated. Both sides are guilty as hell. Trump wanted to take this on and drain the swamp or at least try. All the citizens should be behind him 100%.

I'm afraid I have bad news for you, but I'm sure you won't believe them anyway. When Trump said he's going to drain the swamp, right after he said Mexico pays for a wall and that everybody will get great healthcare for a fraction of the cost, he lied.
That's all. He lied. There's no reason to believe otherwise. He appointed Goldman Sachs people to his cabinet, Wall street guys, the pure definition of swamp. And a senator. And a woman called DeVos who did nothing to prove her worth as having her family spend money to the republicans. He nominated Rick Perry of all people. This is the swamp. He has done nothing, zero, no attempt to drain any swamp. The only "outsider" in his cabinet is this sleepy doctor who bragged about himself being a knife-swinging bad boy in his youth. Forgot hs name and not worth googling it. Yey.
Why would you still believe he would drain anything? That he can and that he actually wants to? What other than saying it on a rally as he ever done to prove that to you? He wants to be good friends with all the terrific people, the lobbyists, the CEOs. He only wants to drain those that oppose him personally. Has nothing to do with what he promised to you.

He just said it. He lied. If you disagree, please provide an example of him actually doing a draining effort.

--
Also, I'm still waiting for you to provide your trustworthy news sources. Don't keep them a secret.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2017, 02:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Establishment Democrats were a bit too comfortable and didn't expect what happened. Hell, most conservatives didn't expect what happened. There are no excuses for the behavior, I'm just pointing out that the right wing made their bed with their reaction to Obama, and now they have to lie in it.

Then couldn't the right wing say that the left started it with Al Gore and Obama was them having to lie in it?

See? This is why that's a stupid excuse. It will never end. Stop trying to defend the people who rioted after the election.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 03:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Then couldn't the right wing say that the left started it with Al Gore and Obama was them having to lie in it?

See? This is why that's a stupid excuse. It will never end. Stop trying to defend the people who rioted after the election.

Was there a large movement of people saying that Bush wasn't their president? I remember a lot of people with "don't blame me, I voted for Gore" stickers, but I don't recall the whole "not my president" movement kicking off until Obama. And using the Gore situation isn't a good one considering the issues there with the election.

And I never defended rioters. Stop trying to lump everyone that has an issue with the current administration in with rioters.

[*jason*]

(08-06-2017, 03:21 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm afraid I have bad news for you, but I'm sure you won't believe them anyway. When Trump said he's going to drain the swamp, right after he said Mexico pays for a wall and that everybody will get great healthcare for a fraction of the cost, he lied.
That's all. He lied. There's no reason to believe otherwise. He appointed Goldman Sachs people to his cabinet, Wall street guys, the pure definition of swamp. And a senator. And a woman called DeVos who did nothing to prove her worth as having her family spend money to the republicans. He nominated Rick Perry of all people. This is the swamp. He has done nothing, zero, no attempt to drain any swamp. The only "outsider" in his cabinet is this sleepy doctor who bragged about himself being a knife-swinging bad boy in his youth. Forgot hs name and not worth googling it. Yey.
Why would you still believe he would drain anything? That he can and that he actually wants to? What other than saying it on a rally as he ever done to prove that to you? He wants to be good friends with all the terrific people, the lobbyists, the CEOs. He only wants to drain those that oppose him personally. Has nothing to do with what he promised to you.

He just said it. He lied. If you disagree, please provide an example of him actually doing a draining effort.

--
Also, I'm still waiting for you to provide your trustworthy news sources. Don't keep them a secret.

That would be Dr. Ben Carson.... He does always appear to be baked.

[hollodero]

(08-06-2017, 04:05 PM)jason Wrote: That would be Dr. Ben Carson.... He does always appear to be baked.

Oh yeah, right... the one who said Joseph built the pyramides. He looks drained alright.

[Arturo Bandini]

(08-06-2017, 05:38 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh yeah, right... the one who said Joseph built the pyramides. He looks drained alright.

This is hilarious actually.

I mean if it wasn't for real.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2017, 03:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Was there a large movement of people saying that Bush wasn't their president? I remember a lot of people with "don't blame me, I voted for Gore" stickers, but I don't recall the whole "not my president" movement kicking off until Obama. And using the Gore situation isn't a good one considering the issues there with the election.

And I never defended rioters. Stop trying to lump everyone that has an issue with the current administration in with rioters.

http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/08/940713-al-gore-says-won-florida-2000-election-didnt/
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/06/al-gore-speaks-out-on-2000-election-actualiy-i-think-i-carrie/23067230/

That's just the topic recently being brought back up. There was a lot of people who thought Bush didn't actually win back in 2000. Lots of recounts, and protests, and such. They didn't use the phrase "not my president" to my knowledge, but there was a whole lot of talk about how Bush didn't really win.

When Obama won, there were stupid people saying not my president, but nobody was denying that the election was legitimate. People have denied the last two Republican Presidents being legitimately elected, though.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 07:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/08/940713-al-gore-says-won-florida-2000-election-didnt/
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/06/al-gore-speaks-out-on-2000-election-actualiy-i-think-i-carrie/23067230/

That's just the topic recently being brought back up. There was a lot of people who thought Bush didn't actually win back in 2000. Lots of recounts, and protests, and such. They didn't use the phrase "not my president" to my knowledge, but there was a whole lot of talk about how Bush didn't really win.

When Obama won, there were stupid people saying not my president, but nobody was denying that the election was legitimate. People have denied the last two Republican Presidents being legitimately elected, though.

You mean apart from the birther movement, of which Trump was a part? I also haven't seen any people that could be taken seriously stating the 2016 election was illegitimate. Even with the issue of Russia, I haven't seen anyone say that this made the election illegitimate. I'm sure there are folks on the fringe saying it, because there always are people saying all sorts of weird shit, but that is the fringe. The birther movement was the fringe, and then they were put front and center.

As for Gore, again, that is a different issue entirely. The situation with that election was one that required the recounts and everything, and I can't blame Gore (and wouldn't blame Bush if the tables were turned) for saying that since the recounts were stopped by the courts and it is still truly unknown.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2017, 07:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/08/940713-al-gore-says-won-florida-2000-election-didnt/
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/06/al-gore-speaks-out-on-2000-election-actualiy-i-think-i-carrie/23067230/

That's just the topic recently being brought back up. There was a lot of people who thought Bush didn't actually win back in 2000. Lots of recounts, and protests, and such. They didn't use the phrase "not my president" to my knowledge, but there was a whole lot of talk about how Bush didn't really win.

When Obama won, there were stupid people saying not my president, but nobody was denying that the election was legitimate. People have denied the last two Republican Presidents being legitimately elected, though.

The Bush / Gore election was unique in the recounts. 

People, including our current POTUS, claimed the Obama election wasn't legitimate because they claimed Obama was not a citizen.

The only person who is still questioning the vote count in the 2016 election is the guy who got less votes:  Trump.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 07:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: The Bush / Gore election was unique in the recounts. 

People, including our current POTUS, claimed the Obama election wasn't legitimate because they claimed Obama was not a citizen.

The only person who is still questioning the vote count in the 2016 election is the guy who got less fewer votes:  Trump.

Yup.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2017, 07:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yup.

Dammit.  My English is awful.  

However:

http://blog.dictionary.com/fewer-vs-less/

Quote:Misuse of the terms fewer and less will set off alarms in the heads of many language enthusiasts. According to usage rules, fewer is only to be used when discussing countable things, while less is used for singular mass nouns. For example, you can have fewer ingredients, dollars, people, or puppies, but less salt, money, honesty, or love. If you can count it, go for fewer. If you can’t, opt for less.

However, it’s not that simple. Since the reign of Alfred the Great, a time when Old English was spoken, less has been used in the same way that fewer is currently used. This long history of usage accounts for supermarkets posting the words “10 Items or Less” over the express lanes, when “10 Items or Fewer” is the grammatically correct option.

If we know the intended meaning of the supermarket signs, does using fewer or less really matter? To many who have internalized the fewer or less distinction, the answer is yes. Using less where fewer is expected will sound jarring to their ears, so consider this as you count items or amounts in the future.

My meaning was understood!

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-06-2017, 07:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You mean apart from the birther movement, of which Trump was a part? I also haven't seen any people that could be taken seriously stating the 2016 election was illegitimate. Even with the issue of Russia, I haven't seen anyone say that this made the election illegitimate. I'm sure there are folks on the fringe saying it, because there always are people saying all sorts of weird shit, but that is the fringe. The birther movement was the fringe, and then they were put front and center.

As for Gore, again, that is a different issue entirely. The situation with that election was one that required the recounts and everything, and I can't blame Gore (and wouldn't blame Bush if the tables were turned) for saying that since the recounts were stopped by the courts and it is still truly unknown.

Slowly raises hand.



3 plus million vote gap.


Russians dabbled all up in election systems. 


Trump conveniently won states by a hair that swung the election his way.

I now have zero faith in any electronic voting machine now and would prefer a physical ballot.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2017, 09:43 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Slowly raises hand.

3 plus million vote gap.

Russians dabbled all up in election systems. 

Trump conveniently won states by a hair that swung the election his way.

I now have zero faith in any electronic voting machine now and would prefer a physical ballot.

Here's my thing, the Russians a few years ago didn't know what the DNC was. Yet, miraculously, they were able to target their misinformation efforts down to the precinct level to hit the most advantageous areas. I think they had an effect on the outcome of the election, but I have zero doubt that the electoral college victory is legitimate. I think a group of people within this country aided Russia in their efforts to impact our election, but people still voted the way they did. People deal with misinformation all of the time from the parties, from interest groups, from "news sources" like the Daily Wire, Breitbart, Mother Jones, or Think Progress. What makes this different is it was a hostile action by a foreign government and someone in this country had to have helped them. That's the only issue at hand, for me.

[Dill]

(08-05-2017, 11:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/20/us/not-my-presidents-day-protests/index.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/20/not-my-presidents-day-rallies/98151790/
etc

Not saying you have to love him or anything, but you pretending nobody is trying to deny the election is awfully silly. If people recognized he duly and legitimately elected, they wouldn't have rioted (there were non-Antifa riots) or held marches and protests of how he's not their President. If they accepted the results of the election, then they would accept that he's their President. That kind of goes hand-in-hand.

No it doesn't, Leonard.  According to your links, people are upset that Trump won the electoral vote but not the popular. That is not "denying the election." They are upset that a spectacular incompetent won by stirring hatred and xenophobia. They are organizing to oppose his agenda.

Denying the election is what happened in 2000 when the Supreme Court decided Bush won amidst a recount, even though Gore won the popular vote. Then people protested saying that Bush was not duly elected.

No one in the links you provided is saying the election was fraudulent. They say Trump is "not my president" because they recognize his unfitness for office.

We are only talking about "denying the election" because it is the repeated claim of Trump and Trumpsters is that there is Russian investigation only because Democrats dispute the outcome of the presidential election, not because so many Trump campaign members met with Russian operatives and spies while Russia was hacking the election--and then denied they did. 

My claim is that there is no Democrat of consequence, no "movement" claiming the election was fraudulent or "denying the election."  That is simply made up by Trumpsters, an attempt to impute false motives to the investigators. Your links do not prove otherwise.

Plenty of people protest elections and presidents who don't doubt the election process. Protest does not go "hand in hand" with election denial. Even people who vote for a president may at some point protest his election.  People say "Not my president" because they recognize Trump's unfitness for office.

Trump would have you believe that Democrats claim the Russian investigation is legitimate to de-legitimize his election. He is fearful of what the investigation will expose. Do not let this reality show star manipulate your perception of political realities in the US.

[Dill]

(08-06-2017, 01:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes I would. Aat least they weren't rioting, burning things, and attacking people, though. So while idiotic, still within their right to be idiots. Granted, the Republicans didn't spend the buildup to the 2008 election talking about how if the Democrats didn't accept the results of the election, it would be the end of democracy, and it would ruin our democracy, etc. So while still idiotic, at least not blatantly instantly hypocritical.

"They did it first, Mom!" Ah yes, that has always been a good excuse, even more so from the group that tries to claim moral/intellectual/educational superiority.

"They did it first" is not the claim from the group that has moral/intellectual/educational superiority.  People are only pointing out what the Republicans have done in the past because Trumps supporters speak as if it were only Democrats.  Correcting the record is not claiming moral superiority.

And in point of fact, many Republicans did spend the buildup to the 2008 election, and afterwards, claiming the "Stalinist" Obama would destroy democracy. His election and reelection would be the end of America as we know it--our country lost to a Kenyan postcolonialist. You never heard of the re-education camps he was building? The black UN helicopters coming to take our guns away, the Oathkeepers???

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-06-2017, 01:15 AM)tigerseye Wrote: Am I embarrassed by anything yet?

I'm embarrassed for the Main Stream Propaganda Outlets (CNN,MSNBC,NBC,Wash Post,NY Times,etc...) efforts to destroy our elected President to the harming of our nation.

Can you give an example of one of those media outlets trying to destroy Trump? How did it harm our country worse than Trump has done with repeals of environmental protections as just one example?

Quote:I'm embarrassed for the leaders of both parties who are doing everything in their power to obstruct and damage our elected President.

Ryan and McConnell are trying to obstruct and destroy Trump? How? Why?

Quote:I'm embarrassed that John McCain is an elected official in the United States.

Why? Because he voted against the Senate healthcare bill? If so, why do you support the Senate proposal?

Quote:I'm embarrassed that Paul Ryan is such a pu#$&.

Because of the Obamacare repeal and replace failure? Trump didn't have a proposal after all the campaign rhetoric. Trump didn't do any work to get it passed other than empty threats on Twitter. Trump can delegate his authority, but not his responsibility. Trump set Ryan up for failure because he didn't have a plan and didn't know how to implement the plan he didn't have. So he pushed it all onto Ryan including the blame. That's the worst type leadership.

Quote:I'm embarrassed that the swamp didn't get the message from the US citizens and are now proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they are truly the cancer that is killing our nation.

I'm embarrassed that the swamp is using Mueller to come up with anything he can to stop what President Trump is doing.

The swamp is scared to death that their deeds will be investigated. Both sides are guilty as hell. Trump wanted to take this on and drain the swamp or at least try. All the citizens should be behind him 100%.

How can the swamp be scared to death and simultaneously not get the message? If they're scared, they got the message. If they didn't get the message, then they wouldn't be scared.

Why does everyone need to be investigated, but Trump? How is the swamp using Mueller who was appointed by a Trump appointee?

Quote:These are the same a holes who have gotten rich running our country into the ground. Why would any citizen not want all that has happened to be investigated.

Two words: Trump University. I believe their school motto was, "Ripping off middle class American students since 2005 until multiple lawsuits for fraud shut us down in 2010 and we agreed to a multi-million dollar out of court settlement"

Or something like that.

Quote:Trump misspeaks and does things he probably shouldn't. Nobody is perfect.

How can he be a straight shooter who tells it like it is, but "misspeaks"? If he "misspeaks" as you admit, then how could he be a straight shooter who tells it like it is ?

Quote:Give the guy a chance maybe he will surprise you.

Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama were a disaster. Wars, running off manufacturing and running the country on a credit card, hell any of us could have done that.

I'm not a fan of Clinton, but he is the only one who had a balanced budget.

Quote:Never know, if everybody got off his back, maybe he could Make America Great Again.

It seems to me that is exactly what they are afraid of. Wonder why?

God Bless America.

Maybe if he got off Twitter and started doing his job he might get things done. But, if he did that he wouldn't have Ryan and McConnell as fall guys for his failures any more.