Shedding Salary (2021 Budget)

[Wes Mantooth]

I know we've had a lot of different talk about who we might move on from after the season. Who we could possible trade, who we could possibly cut, who we let walk etc.  I thought I'd simply list out a group a players that I think have the best possibility of not returning in 2021.  

I figured it would be nice to have a single thread where could discuss and debate who may stay and who may go as the season goes on.

Here is the list of guys I've come up with.  I'll list the player, followed by the 2021 cap savings, followed by possible type of departure.

(Note: I'm not saying all, or even most will be gone. Only that these are the most likely candidates.)

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--- AJ Green ------- 18.17 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- John Ross ------- 5.45 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- William Jackson - 9.95 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

--- Alex Erickson ---- 2.06 mil (Not resigned, money comes off books)

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--- Carlos Dunlap -- 11.25 mil (Traded or released) *** Going into final year

--- Geno Atkins -----  9.60 mil (Traded or released) *** Two years left

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--- Bobby Hart ------- 5.90 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- CJ Uzomah -------  5.25 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Gio Bernard ------- 4.10 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

--- Billy Price --------- 2.08 mil (Released) *** Going into final year

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Note: There's a lot of additional 2021 free agents which can be found here: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cincinnati-bengals/

I just listed the ones who I think deserve the most discussion.  Feel free to add or discuss any you'd like.

I hope some may find this thread interesting or helpful.  I think it shows how and where we can shed salary.  I'm hoping it serves as a decent discussion piece about how we might best go about in doing that.

[Wes Mantooth]

The bottom 4 guys, who are all going into their final years (Hart, Uzomah, Bernard, and Price) net us just shy of 20 million dollars in 2021 savings.

If you take AJ and Ross' salaries off the books, you'll come up with a number very close to 43 mil in potential spending.

Add in a Carlos Dunlap release or trade, and we'll have roughly 55 mil to spend elsewhere.

[WeezyBengal]

This is how the Bengals should be going into this off season. Shedding as much salary as possible from older vets and re allocating the money into quality FA pieces (O line, defensive line).

The ability to add pieces and turn this thing around quickly is there...it will be fascinating to see what the FO does this offseason.

[*Synric*]

Does this include guys that will get a salary cap increase like Trae Waynes and also the dead cap that will fall off the books?

If Geno comes back and plays like Geno I wouldnt write him off until they have some solid depth behind him which they don't at the moment and I don't see Shawn Williams on your list. I do agree their is some shedding to do but also some back of the roster guys that need replaced or resigned because depth is very bad in some position groups.


Edit: What about William Jackson III he is having a solid year so far with better pass rush he could look even better.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 11:56 AM)Synric Wrote: Does this include guys that will get a salary cap increase like Trae Waynes and also the dead cap that will fall off the books?

If Geno comes back and plays like Geno I wouldnt write him off until they have some solid depth behind him which they don't at the moment and I don't see Shawn Williams on your list.


Edit: What about William Jackson III he is having a solid year so far with better pass rush he could look even better.

I've accounted for all dead money in the OP.  (Fwiw, Geno's savings grow quite a bit in year 2)

I did not account for any salary increases.  But yes, almost all players see a bump from year to year, as most contracts are structured that way.

I'm not calling for Geno to definitely be traded.  Again, I'm just listing the most likely candidates to potentially move on.  If he comes back to form them yes, I would keep him too.  At least until the following year, when the cap savings are greater.

Shawn Williams is in the link I provided.  I didn't want to bore everyone to death, nor waste a crazy amount of time, in listing every 2021 free agent.  Mackenzie Alexander is in there as well.  As are a few other guys.

[*Synric*]

(09-21-2020, 12:02 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I've accounted for all dead money in the OP.  (Fwiw, Geno's savings grow quite a bit in year 2)

I did not account for any salary increases.  But yes, almost all players see a bump from year to year, as most contracts are structured that way.

I'm not calling for Geno to definitely be traded.  Again, I'm just listing the most likely candidates to potentially move on.  If he comes back to form them yes, I would keep him too.  At least until the following year, when the cap savings are greater.

Shawn Williams is in the link I provided.  I didn't want to bore everyone to death, nor waste a crazy amount of time, in listing every 2021 free agent.  Mackenzie Alexander is in there as well.  As are a few other guys.

I was actually wondering the other day what it would cost and if they could still extend Alexander.

[Luvnit2]

(09-21-2020, 11:40 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The bottom 4 guys, who are all going into their final years (Hart, Uzomah, Bernard, and Price) net us just shy of 20 million dollars in 2021 savings.

If you take AJ and Ross' salaries off the books, you'll come up with a number very close to 43 mil in potential spending.

Add in a Carlos Dunlap release or trade, and we'll have roughly 55 mil to spend elsewhere.

I am very confused. A lot of guys you mentioned are not under contract so would not come off the books like AJ Green, Ross and others.

They are already off the books for 2021 unless we re-sign them.

AJ will net us a 3rd round pick most likely if we don't trade him this year, so we need to get at least a 3rd round pick and lose his salary this year or no need to trade him. AJ may also pick it up, he was out of football a long time.

Ross has major work to do or he needs to be gone.

Price same as Ross.

I thought we should have traded Dunlap and Geno last year, so I think if we go 2-6, we should do a major dump of vets (salary and hopefully draft picks for 2021 and maybe even 2022.

[Luvnit2]

(09-21-2020, 11:48 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is how the Bengals should be going into this off season. Shedding as much salary as possible from older vets and re allocating the money into quality FA pieces (O line, defensive line).

The ability to add pieces and turn this thing around quickly is there...it will be fascinating to see what the FO does this offseason.

I hope we don't wait until the off season, if we are 2-6 or worse, dump the vets via trade in 2020.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 12:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am very confused. A lot of guys you mentioned are not under contract so would not come off the books like AJ Green, Ross and others.

They are already off the books for 2021 unless we re-sign them.

I just meant the come of the books at season's end.  That's why I didn't list them as "released", and why they're listed as "not resigned".

Simply put, AJ is currently "on the books" for 18.1 million dollars.  After the season he will be "off the books".

I know there's a lot of different ways to look at this.  Some people look at "projected cap space", which any 2021 free agents are already accounted for.  In that case you can dismiss the guys in the first section.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 12:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: AJ will net us a 3rd round pick most likely if we don't trade him this year, so we need to get at least a 3rd round pick and lose his salary this year or no need to trade him. AJ may also pick it up, he was out of football a long time.

I think it's very doubtful we'd see this level of compensation for AJ if he walks.

I could be totally wrong, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this how I understand the system.

1.) To even be eligible for compensatory picks, you have to lose more UFA's than you sign. (We'd need more guys to walk than what we sign)

2.) For AJ to be given a 3rd round value, he's have sign a deal that pays him an average salary that falls near the top of his position group. (I'm not sure of the %, or if it's all receivers or just those in FA class)

As it stand right now, I think any players we sign we'll probably cancel out those we let walk in terms of compensatory value.

And even if I'm wong on the above, I'm guessing AJ gets no more than 9 mil on the open market, unless he completely balls out.  As it stand right now, he's looking like a 3-6 mil dollar rental to me.

Like I said, I could be totally wrong on all this.  But I'd be shocked if we got a 3rd for AJ by letting him hit FA.

[Brimey]

I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that this could be the most important off-season of the last 15 years for the Bengals. They have a QB who has a chance to develop into something special. This off-season is about building the core around him for the formative years of his career, and when he still has a very affordable contract.

If you'd have said the Eagles were going to win the Super Bowl in 2018 or that the Rams would be in the 2019 Super Bowl a few years beforehand, people would have scoffed. You can turn things around very very quickly with a good young QB

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2020, 01:44 PM)Brimey Wrote: I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that this could be the most important off-season of the last 15 years for the Bengals. They have a QB who has a chance to develop into something special. This off-season is about building the core around him for the formative years of his career, and when he still has a very affordable contract.

If you'd have said the Eagles were going to win the Super Bowl in 2018 or that the Rams would be in the 2019 Super Bowl a few years beforehand, people would have scoffed. You can turn things around very very quickly with a good young QB

Problem is Pederson and McVay>>>Taylor

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 01:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Problem is Pederson and McVay>>>Taylor

Simple.  Remove the problem.

Bienemy 2021! :andy:

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2020, 01:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Simple.  Remove the problem.

Bienemy 2021! :andy:

From your keyboard to Mike’s overgrown hair filled ears!

[Brimey]

(09-21-2020, 01:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Problem is Pederson and McVay>>>Taylor

Well luckily you have 14 more games to make a decision there. Same part of important off-season decisions. 

[Clark W Griswold]

My thoughts:
Do not re-sign AJ, Ross or Erickson.
Cut Hart/Dunlap/Bernard
Keep Price (unless that is a really high cap # for a back-up lineman). He should not be a starter but would be a decent back up who knows the offense.

I would still keep Geno because I think if he can be rotated and play less snaps then he will still be a very good DT.
I would also try to get a deal done with Jackson.

This should leave money to sign OL/DL

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2020, 01:59 PM)Brimey Wrote: Well luckily you have 14 more games to make a decision there. Same part of important off-season decisions. 

I can already see Taylor getting a pass for this season though. The pandemic, rookie QB, injuries, etc.

I will be absolutely SHOCKED if they fire him this offseason.

[Brimey]

(09-21-2020, 02:01 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: My thoughts:
Do not re-sign AJ, Ross or Erickson.
Cut Hart/Dunlap/Bernard
Keep Price (unless that is a really high cap # for a back-up lineman). He should not be a starter but would be a decent back up who knows the offense.

I would still keep Geno because I think if he can be rotated and play less snaps then he will still be a very good DT.
I would also try to get a deal done with Jackson.

This should leave money to sign OL/DL

Yes, I can get inline with this. I'd like to keep Lawson as a rotational piece if the price is right. But I think they should be drafting or signing a high end pass rusher

[Nicomo Cosca]

I have seen nothing from Price that indicates he can be even a decent backup.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-21-2020, 02:01 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: My thoughts:
Do not re-sign AJ, Ross or Erickson.
Cut Hart/Dunlap/Bernard
Keep Price (unless that is a really high cap # for a back-up lineman). He should not be a starter but would be a decent back up who knows the offense.

I would still keep Geno because I think if he can be rotated and play less snaps then he will still be a very good DT.
I would also try to get a deal done with Jackson.

This should leave money to sign OL/DL

Your thoughts are almost identical to mine.

I'd keep Geno too (unless he's absolutely terrible), and pair up with Reader next year.  The following year (2022) his cap savings are even greater, and that may be the time to get out.

I don't mind keeping Price at 2 mil either.

The only thing where we may disagree is I think Uzomah is a "must cut".  Even before his injury I couldn't see keeping him vs. freeing up almost 6 mil.  But now with the Achilies I think it's absolute no brainer.

The rest of these guys all need to come off the books.  To have 20 million tied up into just Carlos, Hart, and Bernard would be absolutely crazy.