Should Citizens be required to provide valid ID to vote in federal elections?

[Luvnit2]

This is a no brainer to me, but it appears in some states non-US citizens have not only voted in past federal elections, but they were also not required to provide an ID in these states. This is a no brainer to me. We need a passport or a driver's license proving we are a US citizen to fly on a commercial airplane. We need ID to exit and enter the country.

"The 22-page report argues there is "irrefutable evidence" that noncitizens have voted illegally in U.S. elections, placing blame with the 1993 National Voter Registration Act (NVRA)."

Even if passed, however, it is highly unlikely to be taken up by the Democrat-controlled Senate.

This should be passed by everyone in Congress voting yes. But Democrats who want illegals to vote in our federal election ill attempt to stop it is my opinion. I hope I am wrong.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-leaders-aim-vote-trump-backed-elections-bill-next-month

House leaders aim for vote on Trump-backed elections bill next month
House Speaker Mike Johnson is making the case for the SAVE Act in a 22-page memo to House Republicans

FIRST ON FOX: House GOP leaders plan to take up a bill enhancing protections against noncitizens voting sometime in July, Fox News Digital has learned.

House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., is circulating a memo within his House GOP conference, obtained by Fox News Digital, arguing the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) Act is necessary. After this Friday, Congress is on a weeklong recess for Independence Day, returning July 8.

Johnson unveiled the bill, originally pushed by Rep. Chip Roy, R-Texas, alongside former President Trump in a high-profile press conference at Mar-a-Lago earlier this year.

"The NVRA does not require states to ask for proof of citizenship when registering an individual to vote in federal elections. Rather, the NVRA relies on individuals to merely attest they are a citizen and eligible to vote. In 44 states, if an individual completes and signs the universal NVRA form (Form), then the state is required by federal law to register that person to vote," the memo reads.

Johnson's document also argues that the Biden administration's border policies have exacerbated the issue by making it possible for more people to illegally enter the U.S.

"The Biden Administration’s efforts to dismantle border security, and related policies, have enabled millions of aliens to enter the country, violate our immigration laws, and exploit a system to obtain [a Social Security number]," it reads.

It also points to reports that states like Massachussetts, Virginia and Ohio recently purged noncitizens from their voter rolls.

According to the memo, Virginia removed nearly 1,500 people from its voter rolls since May 2023 due to "non-citizen status." Citing an Electoral Process Education Corp. report, the memo said 335 of those people have cast ballots in Virginia elections in the last four years.

"Earlier this year, in Massachusetts, Boston Election Department officials disclosed to the Public Interest Legal Foundation that the city had removed 70 non-citizens from the city’s election rolls," the document says.

Additionally, Ohio's Republican Secretary of State recently ordered over 130 people to be removed from the state's voter list, the memo says, adding, "Ohio law imposes a very high bar before a county board of elections can remove someone from the rolls due to noncitizenship."

Democratic critics of the SAVE Act have argued that it is unnecessary because it is already illegal for noncitizens to vote in federal elections.

The timing of the vote happening next month would be significant, coming less than six months before Trump's White House rematch with President Biden.

[Arturo Bandini]

You can vote without an ID ?

Identity card or passport ?

I guess yes, you need an ID.

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 03:31 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You can vote without an ID ?

Identity card or passport ?

I guess yes, you need an ID.

This board's European bloc agrees on that matter.

[Luvnit2]

(06-27-2024, 03:31 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You can vote without an ID ?

Identity card or passport ?

I guess yes, you need an ID.

If you read the article, Ohio had 1500 non-citizens removed from their voter roll.

We have states giving illegal immigrants a driver's license. 

Again, a no brainer to me, why not reinforce existing law to ensure the integrity of future federal elections.

Bu article states, just like HR Bill2 designed to stop illegal immigrants from entering the US offered up in a standalone bill by the GOP, Schumer will likely never bring it to the floor.

If there was ever an argument the GOP needs to control both houses to get common sense bills passed, it would be Democrats like Schumer blocking bills to stop immigrants from entering the country and and stop the ones here from voting in a federal election.

[HarleyDog]

(06-27-2024, 03:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is a no brainer to me, but it appears in some states non-US citizens have not only voted in past federal elections, but they were also not required to provide an ID in these states. This is a no brainer to me. We need a passport or a driver's license proving we are a US citizen to fly on a commercial airplane. We need ID to exit and enter the country.

"The 22-page report argues there is "irrefutable evidence" that noncitizens have voted illegally in U.S. elections, placing blame with the 1993 National Voter Registration Act (NVRA)."

Even if passed, however, it is highly unlikely to be taken up by the Democrat-controlled Senate.

This should be passed by everyone in Congress voting yes. But Democrats who want illegals to vote in our federal election ill attempt to stop it is my opinion. I hope I am wrong.

IMO, this is the whole reason for Biden letting all the illegals in. But, to answer your question, yes, voter I.D. should always be required.

[NATI BENGALS]

That’s like this Trump supporter who has been voting illegally for 40 years.

https://wsvn.com/news/local/florida/more-than-60-years-after-moving-to-the-u-s-florida-man-discovers-hes-not-here-legally/

He even had an ID.

I think you should be required to show an ID to vote. I have to show my ID when I go vote. But that doesn’t fix the broke immigration system.

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 05:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: IMO, this is the whole reason for Biden letting all the illegals in.

I don't know about that one. Voting illegally is still quite the risk to take for an unregistered immigrant, I doubt many feel so strongly about US politics to take that risk.

I'd rather assume he just does what a significant portion of his voter base wants him to do, but sure what do I know.

[*pally*]

(06-27-2024, 05:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know about that one. Voting illegally is still quite the risk to take for an unregistered immigrant, I doubt many feel so strongly about US politics to take that risk.

I'd rather assume he just does what a significant portion of his voter base wants him to do, but sure what do I know.

BINGO...you just hit the nail on the head.  I'm willing to bet more American citizens have voted illegally than non-American citizens

1) what is an acceptable form of ID?
2) how much would it cost?
3) where would it be obtained?
4) how long would it take to implement?

Believe it or not most Democrats are not anti-ID, however, the devil has always been in the details and as written many of these proposed laws make it difficult for the poor and disabled to obtain these ids.  So just don't talk about the idea...tell us how you see it being implemented

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 05:52 PM)pally Wrote: 1) what is an acceptable form of ID?

Any official one with a photo.

(06-27-2024, 05:52 PM)pally Wrote: 2) how much would it cost?

Intrinsically nothing for most people, since most people have a driver's licence or a passport or any other photo ID anyway. For those that can not afford to obtain any photo ID, the state should provide a voter ID for them cost-free.

(06-27-2024, 05:52 PM)pally Wrote: 3) where would it be obtained?

Everywhere where citizens can obtain passports.

(06-27-2024, 05:52 PM)pally Wrote: 4) how long would it take to implement?

Well, imho that can not be the question that makes the whole thing fail, but I don't know. Major elections are every two years, that's certainly a sufficient timespan.

[*pally*]

(06-27-2024, 06:19 PM)hollodero Wrote: Any official one with a photo.



Intrinsically nothing for most people, since most people have a driver's licence or a passport or any other photo ID anyway. For those that can not afford to obtain any photo ID, the state should provide a voter ID for them cost-free.



Everywhere where citizens can obtain passports.



Well, imho that can not be the question that makes the whole thing fail, but I don't know. Major elections are every two years, that's certainly a sufficient timespan.

Passports requqire a registered copy of your birth certificate to obtain.  Would that be the same for an ID?

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 06:25 PM)pally Wrote: Passports requqire a registered copy of your birth certificate to obtain.  Would that be the same for an ID?

Phew, that is quite the detail question already. I'm not sure. I want to say yes if obtainable, maybe some character witnesses if one does not exist. In general I would use the current procedure for voter registration as a guideline. How do these people get registered now? Do the same thing for the ID would be my first approach.

Edit there certainly don't need to be any unnecessary hurdles. But then again. Having some kind of ID and getting it for free if need be imho would only be beneficial for the individual in question. Some form of photo ID is necessary for lots of things anyway.

[*pally*]

(06-27-2024, 06:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: Phew, that is quite the detail question already. I'm not sure. I want to say yes if obtainable, maybe some character witnesses if one does not exist. In general I would use the current procedure for voter registration as a guideline. How do these people get registered now? Do the same thing for the ID would be my first approach.

Edit there certainly don't need to be any unnecessary hurdles. But then again. Having some kind of ID and getting it for free if need be imho would only be beneficial for the individual in question. Some form of photo ID is necessary for lots of things anyway.

They register just by signing up with your signature affirming you are an American citizen.  Basically the honor system

And it is a detailed question because as I said earlier the devil is in the details.  It can cost a great deal of money and often time for someone to obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.  For example it took me over 10 years to finally locate and obtain my fathers.  Is that 10 years he would not have been able to vote?  

[HarleyDog]

(06-27-2024, 05:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know about that one. Voting illegally is still quite the risk to take for an unregistered immigrant, I doubt many feel so strongly about US politics to take that risk.

I'd rather assume he just does what a significant portion of his voter base wants him to do, but sure what do I know.

The Dems have been pushing for anyone inside the borders to have the right to vote. They've also pushed for no voter ID requirements and only a sworn statement stating they are eligible to vote. Some states do not require a voter ID. This has been the biggest debate against mail-in voting (not to mention the fraud that occurs when people die, people move and others get their ballot in the mail). That's a problem. I feel the argument they present of, "not everyone can get a photo ID" is BS. If you don't have a photo ID, in most cases you can't get a job and don't have the skills or resources to even contribute to this country. So, should you vote? I know that sounds harsh, But most parents get a SS card for their children at a young age. At the same time, each person born within our borders receives a Birth Certificate. 

[SunsetBengal]

(06-27-2024, 06:39 PM)pally Wrote: They register just by signing up with your signature affirming you are an American citizen.  Basically the honor system

And it is a detailed question because as I said earlier the devil is in the details.  It can cost a great deal of money and often time for someone to obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.  For example it took me over 10 years to finally locate and obtain my fathers.  Is that 10 years he would not have been able to vote?  

No, it doesn't. If you are able to show up in person at the health department of the county you were born, it's next to nothing. 

[HarleyDog]

(06-27-2024, 06:39 PM)pally Wrote: They register just by signing up with your signature affirming you are an American citizen.  Basically the honor system

And it is a detailed question because as I said earlier the devil is in the details.  It can cost a great deal of money and often time for someone to obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.  For example it took me over 10 years to finally locate and obtain my fathers.  Is that 10 years he would not have been able to vote?  

I think you mentioned in another thread that your father was a veteran. A DD214 should always be sufficient, even if it's not. I've known a few soldiers who were not US citizens, but once you serve this country, you should have the right to vote imho.

[HarleyDog]

(06-27-2024, 07:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, it doesn't. If you are able to show up in person at the health department of the county you were born, it's next to nothing. 

This is true. I needed a certified copy of my birth certificate and it took me less than 10 minutes and cost me $10. Now, let's say you were born in Illinois and now live in WV. It's a lot tougher to retrieve since you really can't make the drive (out of convenience of course). Then you must rely on the red tape government process. 

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 06:39 PM)pally Wrote: They register just by signing up with your signature affirming you are an American citizen.  Basically the honor system

I see. And I have to say that this is insecure on its face. Honor is the one thing most fraudsters probably do not really value much.

(06-27-2024, 06:39 PM)pally Wrote: And it is a detailed question because as I said earlier the devil is in the details.  It can cost a great deal of money and often time for someone to obtain a certified copy of their birth certificate.  For example it took me over 10 years to finally locate and obtain my fathers.  Is that 10 years he would not have been able to vote?  

No, that would not be feasible. But it's tough for me to know where the problem lies here. I guess there could be policies that make obtaining a birth certificate less of a hassle. I also could imagine a witness system, say two citizens confirming that this person is who he claims he is, where it takes at least their honor too before a voter ID can be obtained.
I can of course never guarantee for certain that someone will not fall through the cracks in any system. But there's a point where I have to compare the disadvantages. And a honor-based voter registration system, to me at least, is just a major disadvantage and detrimental to restricting fraud opportunities. But that is for sure an European perspective, where it would be unthinkable to vote without any valid ID, and imho for good reason.

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 07:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The Dems have been pushing for anyone inside the borders to have the right to vote. They've also pushed for no voter ID requirements and only a sworn statement stating they are eligible to vote. Some states do not require a voter ID. This has been the biggest debate against mail-in voting (not to mention the fraud that occurs when people die, people move and others get their ballot in the mail). That's a problem. I feel the argument they present of, "not everyone can get a photo ID" is BS. If you don't have a photo ID, in most cases you can't get a job and don't have the skills or resources to even contribute to this country. So, should you vote?

Yes. The fundamental right of every unblemished citizen to vote, imho, can not ever be subject to [of? english grammar sucks...] any restriction whatsoever. As soon as you deem certain people unworthy of voting, you open up a pandora's box that is detrimental to the idea of a democracy.

As for the rest, I am not really aware of major pushes to let non-citizens vote, but maybe that is so. I can not see inside democrat's heads and will not be the honor witness to their well meaning. The one objection I would have against the picture you paint would be that apperently the people that do get caught are not overwhelmingly leaning democrat. At least the same amount of caught fraudsters, so it seems, cast an illegal vote for republicans. So I have a tough time seeing the democrats benefit from fraud in the first place.

[HarleyDog]

(06-27-2024, 07:35 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yes. The fundamental right of every unblemished citizen to vote, imho, can not ever be subject to [of? english grammar sucks...] any restriction whatsoever. As soon as you deem certain people unworthy of voting, you open up a pandora's box that is detrimental to the idea of a democracy.

As for the rest,  I am not really aware of major pushes to let non-citizens vote, but maybe that is so. I can not see inside democrat's heads and will not be the honor witness to their well meaning. The one objection I would have against the picture you paint would be that apperently the people that do get caught are not overwhelmingly leaning democrat. At least the same amount of caught fraudsters, so it seems, cast an illegal vote for republicans. So I have a tough time seeing the democrats benefit from fraud in the first place.

Yes, there is a problem on both sides and your right. English does suck. I've been Effin it up for 57yrs. Even the most educated get it wrong. 

[hollodero]

(06-27-2024, 07:47 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yes, there is a problem on both sides and your right. English does suck. I've been Effin it up for 57yrs. Even the most educated get it wrong. 

you're    sorry...