Should "retweeting" be a crime?

[*bfine32*]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tenn-boy-16-dies-suicide-153530028.html

Quote:A Tennessee teenager died by suicide after two classmates allegedly outed him by sharing sexually explicit texts he had exchanged with a male classmate on Instagram and Snapchat.

Now, his family and friends are demanding authorities investigate — and criminally charge — the teens accused of outing 16-year-old Channing Smith, outlets including Nashville station WZTZ, The New York Times and The Washington Post report

I'm sure we can all agree that the kids who "retweeted" are turds, but should they be subject to criminal charges?

[BmorePat87]

From what I’ve read, they publicly shared private messages as a way to harass/out/embarrass him. I think cyber bullying like that should have some level of punishment.

[*bfine32*]

(10-01-2019, 10:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: From what I’ve read, they publicly shared private messages as a way to harass/out/embarrass him. I think cyber bullying like that should have some level of punishment.

From what I've read, I can only assume they were part of the PM's (if that's what they were). It's not like these turds cracked a private server.

[BmorePat87]

(10-01-2019, 10:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: From what I've read, I can only assume they were part of the PM's (if that's what they were). It's not like these turds cracked a private server.

Which means they weren’t retweeting a public tweet, they were sharing a private exchange with the intent to harass.

[*bfine32*]

(10-01-2019, 10:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Which means they weren’t retweeting a public tweet, they were sharing a private exchange with the intent to harass.

I never said they were retweeting a public tweet.

Let's try this example:

bfine in a PM to Bmore "Hey Bmore I like to sleep with goats"

Bmore shares in PnR forum: "Hey guys, check this out. bfine likes to sleep with goats I knew it because he's a conservative"

Should Bmore be charged with a crime?

[BmorePat87]

(10-01-2019, 11:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I never said they were retweeting a public tweet.

Let's try this example:

bfine in a PM to Bmore "Hey Bmore I like to sleep with goats"

Bmore shares in PnR forum: "Hey guys, check this out. bfine likes to sleep with goats I knew it because he's a conservative"

Should Bmore be charged with a crime?

You used the word retweet multiple times, hence my comments.

If you sent me text messages confessing your secret sexuality to me and I think spread it online as a means of outing you to hundreds of people, then yes, I think that's a crime. I think harassment and cyber bullying are crimes.

[*bfine32*]

(10-01-2019, 11:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You used the word retweet multiple times, hence my comments.

If you sent me text messages confessing your secret sexuality to me and I think spread it online as a means of outing you to hundreds of people, then yes, I think that's a crime. I think harassment and cyber bullying are crimes.

Damn it!! We're going with the semantics argument. I purposely phrased it as "retweeting" to show I was pointing to a common term for re-sharing information. BTW you can send a private tweet.

But that aside, I appreciate you straight forward admission of your stance. Not sure I agree with it, in this situation, but I appreciate it. Of course cyber bullying needs to be addressed, but is sharing a message freely shared with you an example?

[BmorePat87]

(10-01-2019, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Damn it!! We're going with the semantics argument. I purposely phrased it as "retweeting" to show I was pointing to a common term for re-sharing information. BTW you can send a private tweet.

But that aside, I appreciate you straight forward admission of your stance. Not sure I agree with it, in this situation, but I appreciate it. Of course cyber bullying needs to be addressed, but is sharing a message freely shared with you an example?

It's not meant to be a semantics argument. A retweet is very different from posting private messages, so it completely changes my position on this.

Retweet means you shared someone's tweet on your page. That implies that their tweet was already public because private (or protected as twitter calls them) tweets are not retweetable.

And, yes, regardless if the person knowingly told you the information or sent you the text, the intent to harass them is what ultimately matters. They sought to publicly shame and harass that kid as a way to hurt him emotionally and mentally. 

[NATI BENGALS]

Depends. If it is our prez retweeting some shit and attempting to start a civil war. Yea. Probably treason.

[*michaelsean*]

So about the goats...?

[Au165]

(10-01-2019, 10:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tenn-boy-16-dies-suicide-153530028.html


I'm sure we can all agree that the kids who "retweeted" are turds, but should they be subject to criminal charges?

You using the term retweet incorrectly...



As to the topic, it does raise a serious free speech question. Is simply sharing information criminal? It doesn't appear they did anything negative towards him with regards to said information (Teasing, intimidation, etc.). In reality, it doesn't appear anyone did anything derogatory to him based on the information but rather his fear of such a thing happening led to him committing suicide. I think for this to meet any sort of standard for bullying it would need to require some sort of malice, in most cases I'd think it would need to be repeated, towards the victim. Now maybe there is a more not mentioned here that shows a history of malice towards this individual, and in that case I could see this being the final piece of a larger case but for this to be the whole case I just can't get on board with a criminal charge here.

This heads down a slippery slope of what can and can't be shared. If someone DM's me they cheated on their spouse and I reshare that information without further commentary and they commit suicide does that make it criminal? What about if someone tells me they got fired I tell others and they kill themselves because they can't handle the shame or embarrassment of being fired? Do I think the kids are assholes? Yes. Are they criminals? No. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-02-2019, 09:09 AM)Au165 Wrote: As to the topic, it does raise a serious free speech question. Is simply sharing information criminal? It doesn't appear they did anything negative towards him with regards to said information (Teasing, intimidation, etc.). In reality, it doesn't appear anyone did anything derogatory to him based on the information but rather his fear of such a thing happening led to him committing suicide. I think for this to meet any sort of standard for bullying it would need to require some sort of malice, in most cases I'd think it would need to be repeated, towards the victim. 

I don't think the suicide should play a role unless they encouraged it (which they did not in this case), but how is someone outing another person not done in malice? 

In this circumstance, the allegation is that the girl who shared the texts was angry at Channing after finding out that her boyfriend had previously exchanged these texts with him and released them in response to an argument she then had with Channing. There's also the revelation that he had a history of being bullied at the school for being effeminate. 

Suggesting this type of graphic, public outing of a teen was "not negative" is a pretty wild claim. 

[fredtoast]

(10-01-2019, 11:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I never said they were retweeting a public tweet.

Let's try this example:

bfine in a PM to Bmore "Hey Bmore I like to sleep with goats"

Bmore shares in PnR forum: "Hey guys, check this out. bfine likes to sleep with goats I knew it because he's a conservative"

Should Bmore be charged with a crime?

I don't think you understand what happened.

The people who made the comments public were not the ones that received them.

There should definitely be a punishment for this.

[GMDino]

Is stealing a crime?

In this story someone gave me two apples for my own personal use but I gave them away at my store.  

Oh wait, that's not stealing.

And this isn't "retweeting".

All seriousness aside there is a moral dilemma here.  Things told in private should remain there, IMHO, unless there is a chance of harm to someone.  i.e.: someone is talking about hurting themselves or others.  

I am currently in such a situation with knowledge about a situation that *perhaps* should be known by the public at large/media but is not yet.  My sources (multiple) are "second hand" but as solid as one can get given the story.  I chose not to say anything because my sources also tell me that this issue WILL be public, and soon, in a very interesting way.

If someone tells me private information and asks me to NOT share it I will not.

If I do can I be held responsible if THEIR reaction is to do harm to themselves (or others)?  If there was not hint of that happening when the information was shared I don't think so.  Not legally.  Morally it is wrong in my book though.  I would hope the person who posted the private exchanges is at least remorseful.  

[Au165]

(10-02-2019, 09:35 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't think the suicide should play a role unless they encouraged it (which they did not in this case), but how is someone outing another person not done in malice? 

In this circumstance, the allegation is that the girl who shared the texts was angry at Channing after finding out that her boyfriend had previously exchanged these texts with him and released them in response to an argument she then had with Channing. There's also the revelation that he had a history of being bullied at the school for being effeminate. 

Suggesting this type of graphic, public outing of a teen was "not negative" is a pretty wild claim. 

I didn't say it wasn't negative, I am saying it doesn't meet a threshold of criminality without it having more context. When I think of malice, I am looking for some sort of commentary along with it showing it (derogatory words, calls to action in regards to the information, etc). The article posted provided little to no context about previous incidents or any commentary added to the sharing of the information. That said, see my other examples of shared information. Are those also crimes? If the answer is no then this can't be either, at least as portrayed in the story. If the answer is yes then newspapers are complicit in a lot of crimes and I don't think we want to head down that road.

They could probably get the girlfriend for some sort of cyber crime for illegally accessing the phone if the boyfriend cooperated, but going after anything related to the death is an overcharge here as the story is written. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-02-2019, 09:55 AM)Au165 Wrote: I didn't say it wasn't negative, I am saying it doesn't meet a threshold of criminality without it having more context. When I think of malice, I am looking for some sort of commentary along with it showing it (derogatory words, calls to action in regards to the information, etc). The article posted provided little to no context about previous incidents or any commentary added to the sharing of the information. That said, see my other examples of shared information. Are those also crimes? If the answer is no then this can't be either, at least as portrayed in the story. If the answer is yes then newspapers are complicit in a lot of crimes and I don't think we want to head down that road.

They could probably get the girlfriend for some sort of cyber crime for illegally accessing the phone if the boyfriend cooperated, but going after anything related to the death is an overcharge here as the story is written. 

You literally said "It doesn't appear they did anything negative towards him with regards to said information (Teasing, intimidation, etc.)". The act of outing him as retribution was a negative action. 

Explain exactly how it was done innocently. 

[CJD]

I just quickly googled "is cyberbullying a crime?"

Quote:“Yes, there can be legal consequences,” says attorney and founder of Carter Law Firm, Ruth Carter. “Depending on the rules of your state and the circumstances involved, discipline can include expulsion from school, criminal charges for harassment and/or civil lawsuits for defamation and other harms.”

"The last thing anyone wants is a suicide or school shooting because of cyberbullying."

DeGarmo adds that due to the prevalence of the issue, most schools have created specific policies for cyberbullying. “Ten years ago, no one gave much thought to this issue,” he says. “But now, schools are paying more attention. The last thing anyone wants is a suicide or school shooting because of cyberbullying.”

The consequences for cyberbullies depend on the specific circumstance. Many cyberbullying cases wind up getting prosecuted as harassment. Some cases result in civil court, while others might warrant criminal charges and prosecution for hate crimes, impersonation, harassment, cyberbullying and violations under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA).
Here is a list of potentially criminal forms of cyberbullying, as listed by Stomp Out Bullying:

Harassing someone, especially if the harassment is based on gender, race or other protected classes
Making violent threats
Making death threats
Making obscene and harassing phone calls and texts
Sexting
Sextortion, which is sexual exploitation
Child pornography
Stalking someone
Committing hate crimes
Taking a photo of someone in a place where they expect privacy
Extortion

https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/is-cyberbullying-illegal/

So it seems like there is a standard for consequences for cyberbullying.

I feel like this case falls safely under that umbrella.

[Au165]

(10-02-2019, 10:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You literally said "It doesn't appear they did anything negative towards him with regards to said information (Teasing, intimidation, etc.)". The act of outing him as retribution was a negative action. 

Explain exactly how it was done innocently. 

Did they release the information and follow it up with threats, teasing, intimidation? I didn't say innocent did I? I said they didn't do anything negative towards him WITH that information they released. The information is negative but without additional actions around releasing the information it doesn't rise to anything other than releasing factual information that there was no legal expectation to remain private.

As I said, if the GF did in fact release it then you are talking about potential privacy laws with the BF phone she accessed illegally. In terms of bullying, and in context of what facts the article gave, there is not nearly enough to try and link the release of information with any sort of bullying crimes. It is not a crime to report factual information even if the intent of said factual information is to embarrass the person involved. If that were the case every news network in the country would be operating illegally. 

[Au165]

(10-02-2019, 11:18 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I just quickly googled "is cyberbullying a crime?"


https://www.rasmussen.edu/degrees/justice-studies/blog/is-cyberbullying-illegal/

So it seems like there is a standard for consequences for cyberbullying.

I feel like this case falls safely under that umbrella.

Does it? Is the release of FACTUAL information harassing? Again, if that is the case then the news is harassing people by releasing information they don't want in public. 

Maybe in a larger picture with previous things that occurred it could fly, but if all we were going off of is this single incident then this is a freedom of speech issue and speech that should be protected no matter how terrible it is.

[BmorePat87]

(10-02-2019, 11:35 AM)Au165 Wrote: Did they release the information and follow it up with threats, teasing, intimidation? I didn't say innocent did I? I said they didn't do anything negative towards him WITH that information they released. The information is negative but without additional actions around releasing the information it doesn't rise to anything other than releasing factual information that there was no legal expectation to remain private.

And what I am saying is that the act itself is inherently negative, especially since it was done in retribution and out of anger. They released it full well knowing the implications of it and the response he would receive. He even called the girl afterwards and told her he was going to kill himself and she didn't call the police or anyone else.

The idea that they were only harming this kid if they added a commentary to their vindictive actions is absurd. The idea that shaming someone while explicitly outing them is not negative only perpetuates the cycle of pain and intolerance that LGBT youth experience in disproportionate numbers. 

The intent is there. Hopefully one day the law will hold people who participate in this type of harassment responsible for their actions.