Singer ask White audience members to go To the back of the room

[JustWinBaby]

(11-06-2017, 04:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: ...but traditional conservatives still tend to favor sacrifices to liberty on behalf of law and order, security, etc.

You're equating Republicans, a political party, with Conservative ideology - the two are not the same.  Conservatives tend to be pretty big on privacy and liberty. 

[Belsnickel]

(11-06-2017, 05:05 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You're equating Republicans, a political party, with Conservative ideology - the two are not the same.  Conservatives tend to be pretty big on privacy and liberty. 

I would say you're conflating libertarian conservatives, or just straight libertarians, with regular conservatism. There are certainly branches of conservatism that fall into the region you are talking about, but not all. It boils down to the dilemmas, and where different branches of the four fall on each spectrum.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

So Millenials don't know what socialism and communism is and apparently Gen Xers and Baby Boomers can't define conservatism, either.

[Dill]

(11-06-2017, 05:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So Millenials don't know what socialism and communism is and apparently Gen Xers and Baby Boomers can't define conservatism, either.

LOL well some of them can. I think Bels is doing a good job. 

But most people get their "isms" from news and social media. That is where I learned that multiminionaire neo lib (and maybe neo con) Hillary Clinton was a "leftist" and Mitch McConnell is a "progressive." 

[Dill]

(11-06-2017, 05:05 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You're equating Republicans, a political party, with Conservative ideology - the two are not the same.  Conservatives tend to be pretty big on privacy and liberty. 

Conservatism used to be defined by people like Russel Kirk and William Buckley, who saw conservatism as a political ideology dating back to Burke, with North American and Continental variations.  Now the deciding criteria seem to be fiscal responsibility and a pro life stance.

But in North America, which never had feudal/reactionary politics,  classical liberalism became the status quo around which conservatives tended to rally. Hence 7,8 and 9 below, which line up with liberalism.  But conservatism is not strictly identical to that liberalism, as 1-3 and 5 below suggest.  5 might be why most conservatives either supported segregation during the 1950s and 60s or attacked those who opposed it, like MLK.  That goes beyond libertarianism. 

Wonder how many of today's conservatives would assent to all of Kirk's ten principles?

http://www.kirkcenter.org/detail/ten-conservative-principles/

First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.That order is made for man, and man is made for it: human nature is a constant, and moral truths are permanent.

Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity. It is old custom that enables people to live together peaceably; the destroyers of custom demolish more than they know or desire. 

Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription. 

Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence. 

Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety. ... For the preservation of a healthy diversity in any civilization, there must survive orders and classes, differences in material condition, and many sorts of inequality. The only true forms of equality are equality at the Last Judgment and equality before a just court of law;

Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.

Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.

Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.

Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions. 

Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.