Skillset Needed to Win as a HC for the Bengals

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-25-2017, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You forgot Simmons.

The one whose special teams got fooled by a fake punt?

[JSR18]

(10-25-2017, 01:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, I doubt we get an Alpha Coach that comes in here and works in this structure. No Cowher. No Gruden.

That's why Coughlin didn't come in 2003.

True. That's why I think its imperative to forget trying to lure the "big" names. 

Start scouring the NCAA Div I head coaches (and not any of the one's that run a gimmick offense). Somebody tried and stable who can bring in other "up and coming" coaches with fresh perspectives...

[*Go Cards*]

(10-25-2017, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The only thing a HC for the Bengals must be in the eyes of Mike Brown: submissive

Submissive without a "safe" word

[*Go Cards*]

(10-25-2017, 01:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, I doubt we get an Alpha Coach that comes in here and works in this structure. No Cowher. No Gruden.

That's why Coughlin didn't come in 2003.

Agree, no big name coach will ever sign on to coach for MB

But we differ in the fact that I believe the only way we get a great coach is to gamble on an up and coming assistant coach looking for a break.

Most fail but every now and then a gem emerges.

Or get a new owner.

[count35]

(10-26-2017, 12:45 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree, no big name coach will ever sign on to coach for MB

But we differ in the fact that I believe the only way we get a great coach is to gamble on an up and coming assistant coach looking for a break.

Most fail but every now and then a gem emerges.

Or get a new owner.

Ladies and Gentlemen please save yourselves.....unless the above happens nothing else will matter.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-25-2017, 01:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok, so I see a bunch of people throwing down a wish list of guys who likely wouldn't come here. But, do you even realize what skillset a head coach needs? What role a HC has compared to an OC or DC?

Let's put together a job description:

1 ) Must be able to scout college talent and make wise draft picks.
2 ) Must be able to motivate the team and keep it focused.
3 ) Must be able to prepare team for games mentally and physically (training camp).
4 ) Must be willing to work under the unique management structure that the Bengals have in place. Must not complain about this management structure.
5 ) Must hold players accountable and not be afraid to call players out.
6 ) Must be a catalyst for change...and create a winning organizational culture.
7 ) Must be able to create an overall philosophical identity of the team and disseminate this down to the coordinators and position coaches. Must give coordinators autonomy to implement their plays/schemes but make sure your overall philosophy is followed.
8 ) Must be able to find bargains in free agency, and be willing to move on from underperforming veterans.
9 ) Must be willing to challenge the status quo. Must despise not making the playoffs and not be content with losing a playoff game because you appeared in the playoffs.
10 ) Must create a culture where young football players are given an opportunity to develop.

Thoughts? What am I missing?

I think that when we look at this list objectively, that a lot of coaches may not be able to handle some of these tasks. Like pluck a Patriots assistant and I doubt they have the experience scouting college players because they have a great personnel department.

Three basic characteristics:  Accountability, Creativity, Discipline.  

[*ochocincos*]

(10-25-2017, 07:55 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The one whose special teams got fooled by a fake punt?

Yes, but also one of the best overall coaches the Bengals actually have, and he's been around a long time.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2017, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree. I think the only options that will be considered are someone internal to the organization right now (Guenther is the favorite IMO) or Hue Jackson if he's fired because they are familiar with him.

I could easily see Guenther promoted to HC, Coyle promoted to DC, and Lazor sticking as OC unless Jackson is available to come in as OC.
Oh, and Paul Alexander keeping his job because "reasons".

This would blow big time. Might be okay with this if PA is gone, but we need to clean house if this
team is ever going to really contend for a SB. If PA is still around after the last 2 years i will become
a negative poster. Always been positive but this guy HAS to be replaced.

(10-25-2017, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd say the next coach is, in order of probability:

1 ) Guenther
2 ) Jackson
3 ) Lazor
4 ) Alexander
5 ) Outside candidate

Simmons is also on this list.

Still want someone from the outside more than anything.

[muskiesfan]

(10-25-2017, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd say the next coach is, in order of probability:

1 ) Guenther
2 ) Jackson
3 ) Lazor
4 ) Alexander
5 ) Outside candidate

Unfortunately, this is probably about right. While I don't Guenther to be the next HC, I will say I feel he would be willing to hold players much more accountable then Marvin. Last season (I believe it was after the Redskins game), Guenther said he was going to bench guys and the best players would be on the field. Of course the next day Marvin said that wasn't going to happen.

Again, I'm not in the Guenther camp and I would really like the team to bring in an outside coach, but at least Guenther appears to be willing to hold players accountable.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2017, 10:19 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Unfortunately, this is probably about right. While I don't Guenther to be the next HC, I will say I feel he would be willing to hold players much more accountable then Marvin. Last season (I believe it was after the Redskins game), Guenther said he was going to bench guys and the best players would be on the field. Of course the next day Marvin said that wasn't going to happen.

Again, I'm not in the Guenther camp and I would really like the team to bring in an outside coach, but at least Guenther appears to be willing to hold players accountable.

How can we assume Guenther would be different than Lewis? He's coached under him since something like 2002. You may as well say he's Marvin Lewis Jr from a philosophy perspective.

Just like Zimmer coached under Parcells and you can see some of Parcells in him.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2017, 01:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How can we assume Guenther would be different than Lewis? He's coached under him since something like 2002. You may as well say he's Marvin Lewis Jr from a philosophy perspective.

Yeah, Guenther might think that unless there's 1:59 seconds to go in the first half, you don't try to score at all unles syou're behind by more than 2 TDs.

[masonbengals fan]

Extremely thick skin...

[muskiesfan]

(10-27-2017, 01:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How can we assume Guenther would be different than Lewis? He's coached under him since something like 2002. You may as well say he's Marvin Lewis Jr from a philosophy perspective.

Just like Zimmer coached under Parcells and you can see some of Parcells in him.

I'm not exactly saying Guenther would be different than Lewis. I'm saying that last season, Guenther wanted to shake things up on the defense. He said the best players were going to play and that was that. He wanted to hold his defensive players accountable instead of just running out the vets all of the time. Why didn't it happen? The next day Marvin said that wasn't going to happen. Marvin literally came out and cut off his DC's balls to the media.

Again, I don't want Guenther. I'm just saying that he did attempt to hold the players accountable and Marvin refused to let him.

[muskiesfan]

I was wrong. Marvin waited a week to say Guenther wasn't going to do that. It wasn't the next day. I just wanted to make sure I posted that correction. Here's an article from Cincy Jungle about it: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/11/10/13580966/marvin-lewis-cautions-against-change-on-defense

I really want every coach on this team gone and replaced next season. I was just pointing out that Guenther at least tried to hold players accountable and Marvin refused to let that happen.