So, QAnon....

[Belsnickel]

(07-18-2020, 10:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You are correct about an accepted truth, as well as the fact that there was no internet.  However, I am a believer that educators should stick to subject matter when teaching class.  Teaching from a particular point of view is more like indoctrination, rather than education.

My wife is a Masters educated teacher.  She abandoned classroom teaching, as she was uncomfortable with the political climate of the administration, as well as the attitude of the parents she had to interact with, teaching in the city.  Now, she is a Social Worker, dealing with families of many similar children that she used to educate.  The difference is that now she feels enabled to actually help those kids, where as a classroom teacher, her hands were tied.  

Pointing out factual inaccuracies isn't teaching from a point of view. That is teaching how to think critically about the world.

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2020, 10:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not a cheap shot at anything about you. 

It was 100% a cheap shot.

You don't even have any idea if the conspiracy theory had anything to do with politics.  It could have been about space aliens or the earth being flat.  But you immediately went to  "Your political bias is so stupid even a kid can figure it out."

I'll give you a break because your response was probably a result of the mnd control frequencies the Republican party has been flooding your area with, but you really shoul apologize anyway.

[GMDino]

(07-19-2020, 06:19 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Pointing out factual inaccuracies isn't teaching from a point of view. That is teaching how to think critically about the world.

I think I had a thread on conspiracy theories on the 1.0 but I know I did on FB and I was surprised to find how many friends that I think of as very smart, educated, well read people believe in the deepest, darkest conspiracies in this country.

And I love a good discussion about a conspiracy, don't get me wrong, but something like Pizzagate is easily disproved...the Pizza place doesn't have a basement.  And people who continue to spread conspiracies are just passing around bad information.  Conspiracies fill that void between what is happening and what he understand or know.  The more we understand and know the more we can move away from conspiracies and move closer to the truth.

On another note I never cared about my teacher's political leanings in school because I wasn't as political then and when I started caring more about politics I didn't care because I had my own views.  

Which leads to the way students are taught and how the majority of the textbooks and what are in them is established somewhere in Texas and that's that.  If a teacher points out an inaccuracy or a historical untruth then that is good teaching. 

[SunsetBengal]

(07-18-2020, 10:05 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: lol, what?


He asked about a conspiracy theory. I pointed to factual inaccuracies and how law enforcement debunked it. I'm not sure how that is showing a political side, but I guess this a pathetic attempt at a cheap shot on my character. 

It was not intended to be a reference to your character.  I do apologize for allowing it to look as it were.  I have a full and complete respect for those who choose to participate in the field of Education.  It is a tough task in principle, and the rigors of that job are compounded by social factors.  I know this from both personal experience, as well as from the experiences of my wife;  She served as a Masters level educator for 12 years, prior to transitioning to a career in Children's services.  

She chose to leave the field of Education for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which was to be able to help children in a greater capacity than what she was able to in the classroom.  Pat, I applaud you for having the strength to be an educator, I've often benefited greatly from things that I read or learn from your posts.  Just because I differ with you on a few ideals, I should not have made a comment that was a knock on your character or integrity.  I sincerely hope that you can find it within you to move past this transgression.  You are, and have always been one of my favorite posters on here;  Which is likely why I often choose to challenge your opinions, I never meant any personal malice.

[BmorePat87]

(07-19-2020, 10:23 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It was not intended to be a reference to your character.  I do apologize for allowing it to look as it were.  I have a full and complete respect for those who choose to participate in the field of Education.  It is a tough task in principle, and the rigors of that job are compounded by social factors.  I know this from both personal experience, as well as from the experiences of my wife;  She served as a Masters level educator for 12 years, prior to transitioning to a career in Children's services.  

She chose to leave the field of Education for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which was to be able to help children in a greater capacity than what she was able to in the classroom.  Pat, I applaud you for having the strength to be an educator, I've often benefited greatly from things that I read or learn from your posts.  Just because I differ with you on a few ideals, I should not have made a comment that was a knock on your character or integrity.  I sincerely hope that you can find it within you to move past this transgression.  You are, and have always been one of my favorite posters on here;  Which is likely why I often choose to challenge your opinions, I never meant any personal malice.

I appreciate it and I want you to know that I respect you as a person and have always enjoyed our dialogues.

I think with the hyper partisanship, you may have assumed I was trying to dismiss a conservative idea as a conspiracy theory, which led to your reply. All too often legitimate ideas are dismissed and treated like that simply for being of an opposing ideology.

The conspiracy in question was Pizzagate. I used it as an example of fake news that we could source and debunk while teaching about sourcing.

In my classroom, I am the devil’s advocate when a student wants to argue a position, whether from the right or left. If I am presenting ideas, I’ll provide a source with an argument from each side and let them make their decision.

For example, when we discussed the role of the federal government in environmental regulations, I provided a source defending deregulation and how it can promote the economy while also providing a source arguing for regulations and the harmful effects deregulation has on the environment. Students argue it whichever way they want.

Some issues don’t receive that treatment, though, especially if they pertain to the identity of my students. Maryland protects LGBT rights and has for years, so we learn about the status of federal and state protections without any input from anti LGBT sources. Likewise, as my school is minority majority, I include racial inequality lessons too. We learn the history and impact of programs. We discuss data describing current trends and problems and students get to make their decisions on what the role of the government should be. I teach the 1st Amendment as universal, regardless of religious or political views, explaining the importance of everyone being able to exercise it, even if you disagree with their position.

As far as I am concerned, I don’t even remember what this row was even about.

[fredtoast]

Here is my position.

The government and big businesses are not always honest with the public.  I know about the Gulf of Tonkin and the Iraqi WMDs.  I know that tobacco companies and the NFL knew about dangers of their products and tried to hide them.

So when i am presented with a conspiracy theory I try to look at them logically and decide if they could be real.  Most of the time I find that they are way too complicated to be real (like most 9-11 theories) or else they are just not worth the trouble (what do liberals have to gain by destroying their own economy with a global warming hoax).

[Belsnickel]

(07-19-2020, 10:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So when i am presented with a conspiracy theory I try to look at them logically and decide if they could be real. Most of the time I find that they are way to complicated to be real (like most 9-11 theories) or else they are just not worth the trouble (what do liberals have to gain by destroying their own economy with a global warming hoax).

This is where most conspiracy theories fall. So many of them would fail miserably because too many people would have to be involved. It's like any of the deep state conspiracy theories. The more people required to pull it off, the less likely it is to be real.

[CJD]

(07-19-2020, 12:11 AM)samhain Wrote: It's strange, but to me it seems like things like flat-earth theory start out as jokes.  Eventually, however, certain people begin to join the "team" that aren't quite stable or are just plain dumb, and it becomes less funny.  

All of this shit used to be really entertaining to me personally.  I watched Alex Jones go on about Bohemian Grove and political cabals on public access in the early aughts.  He was funny and seemed too absurd to be taken seriously.  Now "repesctable" people that have kids and real jobs look to him as a source of information.  He's talked to the friggin' POTUS for Christ's sake.  

I went on a business trip to Dallas last year with a manager from work that I always respected and loved working for.  He's no simpleton at all.  I made a joke about chemtrails as we watched planes taking off at DFW before we left and he proceeded to launch into a 45 minute diatribe about what chemtrails are, who's behind them, and why.  I laughed my ass off and made snide remarks until I realized he was dead serious.  It made me genuinely sad.

I think that's how a majority of the crazy communities online start. For example, the subreddit The_Donald used to be a sub meant to mock the absurdity of Trump as a candidate. But, as it went on, Trump supporters just flocked to it and turned it into one of the most repugnant subreddits ever.

Same with the subreddit Gamers Rise Up. It started out making fun of the negative associations with gamers (like being anti social and obsessed with edgy anti-heroes like the Joker), and then eventually it just became unironically racist and anti-social.

I think /b/ on 4Chan was similar.

All of these "Let's pretend we believe something absurd because the idea that these people exist is hilarious to us" communities eventually become an unironic testament to those people's existence. It should be a law of the internet by this point, similar to Godwin's Law or Poe's Law. In fact, Poe's Law is a pretty apt description of it...

Quote:"Without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extreme views will be mistaken by some readers or viewers as sincere expressions of the parodied views."

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Stephen Colbert had a certain sect of his fans that actually thought he was being serious on The Colbert Report.

[GMDino]

(07-19-2020, 11:44 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think that's how a majority of the crazy communities online start. For example, the subreddit The_Donald used to be a sub meant to mock the absurdity of Trump as a candidate. But, as it went on, Trump supporters just flocked to it and turned it into one of the most repugnant subreddits ever.

Same with the subreddit Gamers Rise Up. It started out making fun of the negative associations with gamers (like being anti social and obsessed with edgy anti-heroes like the Joker), and then eventually it just became unironically racist and anti-social.

I think /b/ on 4Chan was similar.

All of these "Let's pretend we believe something absurd because the idea that these people exist is hilarious to us" communities eventually become an unironic testament to those people's existence. It should be a law of the internet by this point, similar to Godwin's Law or Poe's Law. In fact, Poe's Law is a pretty apt description of it...

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Stephen Colbert had a certain sect of his fans that actually thought he was being serious on The Colbert Report.

Oh, there were plenty who didn't get the joke.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/04/conservatives-think-colbert-serious/

Quote:Via HuffPo comes a study that confirms one thing we already knew—Stephen Colbert is totally hilarious—but also points out something surprising: both conservatives and liberals think he’s on their side. According to an Ohio State University study, The Colbert Report is like a political Rorschach text, and you see what you want to see in it:

Quote:…Individual-level political ideology significantly predicted perceptions of Colbert’s political ideology. Additionally, there was no significant difference between the groups in thinking Colbert was funny, but conservatives were more likely to report that Colbert only pretends to be joking and genuinely meant what he said while liberals were more likely to report that Colbert used satire and was not serious when offering political statements. Conservatism also significantly predicted perceptions that Colbert disliked liberalism.

Proof that we live in different worlds came just last week when the National Organization for Marriage (nom nom nom!!) thanked Colbert for his parody of their insane “Gathering Storm” anti-gay marriage spot. NOM president Maggie Gallagher actually said “I’ve always thought Colbert was a double-agent, pretending to pretend to be a conservative, to pull one over Hollywood.” Wow. Really? Well, I guess if you think gay marriage is a scary lightning storm, coming to take away your rights, your brain is full of neat ideas.


This whole thing makes my head hurt, but I think that’s the point. In fact, it’s all by design, as Colbert himself pointed out in a 2006 interview with Rolling Stone:

Quote:COLBERT: We want people to be in pain and confused. … I come from a fairly conservative place, Charleston, South Carolina, and people have come up to me there and said, “Well, now I like what you do.” They had a little trouble with our liberal, lefty bent over at The Daily Show. But now they’re [in Southern accent] “Good ***** A, man, good for you!” And I’m like, “Well, I’m not sure…”

It’s a sign of how brilliantly the Report succeeds that even its targets cheer it on. (Does anybody else feel like The Daily Show seems flat and dull these days in comparison?) Lest we forget, satire is tough: Soundgarden’s ****-rock parody “Big Dumb Sex” from their 1989 album Louder than Love was so spot-on, the band found they were attracting the very metalheads they were mocking, and frontman Chris Cornell later expressed regret about the track. Let’s hope Colbert can continue to walk the line.

[GMDino]

[samhain]

(07-19-2020, 11:44 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think that's how a majority of the crazy communities online start. For example, the subreddit The_Donald used to be a sub meant to mock the absurdity of Trump as a candidate. But, as it went on, Trump supporters just flocked to it and turned it into one of the most repugnant subreddits ever.

Same with the subreddit Gamers Rise Up. It started out making fun of the negative associations with gamers (like being anti social and obsessed with edgy anti-heroes like the Joker), and then eventually it just became unironically racist and anti-social.

I think /b/ on 4Chan was similar.

All of these "Let's pretend we believe something absurd because the idea that these people exist is hilarious to us" communities eventually become an unironic testament to those people's existence. It should be a law of the internet by this point, similar to Godwin's Law or Poe's Law. In fact, Poe's Law is a pretty apt description of it...

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Stephen Colbert had a certain sect of his fans that actually thought he was being serious on The Colbert Report.

I'm not a gamer and haven't played video games in 15 years, but from the little I see of the gaming community I gather that it's a real cesspool.  My kid is all into Minecraft and Roblox, and I watch the people he sees on Youtube like a hawk.  A lot of the conspiracy theory/ lite White Nationalism seems to stem from those kinds of places where shit-talking and tribalism kind of serve as an incubator for more non-virtual stupidity. I scared the shit out of me when I found out that Pewdiepie, a dude that's highly accessible to kids is basically a Neo-Nazi with less threatening approaches.  Candace Owens is another fun product of this community.  It's bad enough that people end up spending insane amounts of time and money on something as useless as online gaming, but now we have to watch out for conspiracy kooks and political radicals preying on our kids, too.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2020, 05:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oh, there were plenty who didn't get the joke.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/04/conservatives-think-colbert-serious/

Colbert is brilliant, but he has become overly obsessed with Trump.  I ahve not wwtched his show in quite a while.  I don't like Trump either, but it seemed like trump was ALL he would talk about.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2020, 07:02 PM)samhain Wrote: It scared the shit out of me when I found out that Pewdiepie, a dude that's highly accessible to kids is basically a Neo-Nazi with less threatening approaches. 

My kids watched Pewdiepie all the time when they were just like 7 years old.  In fact so many kids watched him that at one time he wasthe richest Youtube celebrity on Youtube.  He was making millions playing video games.

Now I hear he is hanging with Milo Yiannopoulos.

[CJD]

(07-19-2020, 07:02 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm not a gamer and haven't played video games in 15 years, but from the little I see of the gaming community I gather that it's a real cesspool.  My kid is all into Minecraft and Roblox, and I watch the people he sees on Youtube like a hawk.  A lot of the conspiracy theory/ lite White Nationalism seems to stem from those kinds of places where shit-talking and tribalism kind of serve as an incubator for more non-virtual stupidity. I scared the shit out of me when I found out that Pewdiepie, a dude that's highly accessible to kids is basically a Neo-Nazi with less threatening approaches.  Candace Owens is another fun product of this community.  It's bad enough that people end up spending insane amounts of time and money on something as useless as online gaming, but now we have to watch out for conspiracy kooks and political radicals preying on our kids, too.

If you want to see how toxic the gaming community is, look up gamer gate. The mere existence of women in gaming sent the entire community into a months long tail spin.

I'm not familiar with Owens' origination from the gaming community but it wouldn't surprise me if a good portion of her followers were from that community. 

I enjoy playing video games and I think their means of telling a story is both enjoyable and distinct from all other media but the online gaming communities are crazy problematic. 

[samhain]

(07-19-2020, 08:18 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If you want to see how toxic the gaming community is, look up gamer gate. The mere existence of women in gaming sent the entire community into a months long tail spin.

I'm not familiar with Owens' origination from the gaming community but it wouldn't surprise me if a good portion of her followers were from that community. 

I enjoy playing video games and I think their means of telling a story is both enjoyable and distinct from all other media but the online gaming communities are crazy problematic. 

She started something called Social Autopsy that was intended to combat bullying among gamers through doxxing and tracking online activity.  People got really upset with her (both libs and conservatives).  Apparently she was doxxed herself in retaliation for SA.  She blamed the doxxing on liberals (coincidentally ones involved in Gamergate).  

Her blaming of the doxxing on libs garnered support from the righteous trash of the alt right, such as Milo and Cernovich.  Apparently the support from the MAGA verse caused her to become a full-on Trump supporting Republican.  This is odd, considering she was a Bernie supporter as recently as 2015 and ran a company that put out content questioning Trump's penis size.  Apparently political beliefs don't trump popularity for a lot of people.

[CJD]

(07-19-2020, 11:30 PM)samhain Wrote: She started something called Social Autopsy that was intended to combat bullying among gamers through doxxing and tracking online activity.  People got really upset with her (both libs and conservatives).  Apparently she was doxxed herself in retaliation for SA.  She blamed the doxxing on liberals (coincidentally ones involved in Gamergate).  

Her blaming of the doxxing on libs garnered support from the righteous trash of the alt right, such as Milo and Cernovich.  Apparently the support from the MAGA verse caused her to become a full-on Trump supporting Republican.  This is odd, considering she was a Bernie supporter as recently as 2015 and ran a company that put out content questioning Trump's penis size.  Apparently political beliefs don't trump popularity for a lot of people.

Yea, I have no doubt that Owens became a far right spokesperson because she wasn't popular enough in leftist circles. I read an article about how she was evicted from her apartment for non-payment and was struggling making a living with the website you mentioned and then, right when she was at her lowest financially, she "came out" as a conservative and has been going strong ever since.

Definitely seems like it was a financial decision for her. Conservatives love finding and propping up black people who agree with them, especially since it's pretty uncommon.

This was the article I saw:
https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/

It mentions SA, but I had completely forgot about that! haha.

[samhain]

(07-19-2020, 11:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, I have no doubt that Owens became a far right spokesperson because she wasn't popular enough in leftist circles. I read an article about how she was evicted from her apartment for non-payment and was struggling making a living with the website you mentioned and then, right when she was at her lowest financially, she "came out" as a conservative and has been going strong ever since.

Definitely seems like it was a financial decision for her. Conservatives love finding and propping up black people who agree with them, especially since it's pretty uncommon.

This was the article I saw:
https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/

It mentions SA, but I had completely forgot about that! haha.

Yeah, it's some real opportunistic shit.  I think Scaramucci is the same way on the other end.  He got a taste of being a major public figure for a few days, got canned, then turned on POTUS when it became expidient for him.  He's got no credibility or power, he just wants his five minutes to keep on keeping on.  Unlike Owens however, Mooch will likely never be in it for the money.  He's allegedly worth 200 million, so he's paying the rent just fine no matter what narrative he chooses.  He just wants to be relevant.

[Millhouse]

(07-19-2020, 08:18 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If you want to see how toxic the gaming community is, look up gamer gate. The mere existence of women in gaming sent the entire community into a months long tail spin.

I'm not familiar with Owens' origination from the gaming community but it wouldn't surprise me if a good portion of her followers were from that community. 

I enjoy playing video games and I think their means of telling a story is both enjoyable and distinct from all other media but the online gaming communities are crazy problematic. 

Im still a gamer, and I consider myself pretty good of being in the overall loop of things. Ive been in online gaming communities going back to the late 1990s. I also started watch video game streamers on Twitch going back to 2013sh or so. That in itself keeps my up to date on things, while also observing. 

Overall the gaming world is no different than the real world. Sure there will be shit people playing games and being just awful people in general in the gaming world. And like anything this is seen more from the outside. But there is a lot of good that goes on as well, from the companies to the players. I could go on quite a bit, but overall from what I have seen, there has been more good than not overall.

[CJD]

(07-20-2020, 01:57 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Im still a gamer, and I consider myself pretty good of being in the overall loop of things. Ive been in online gaming communities going back to the late 1990s. I also started watch video game streamers on Twitch going back to 2013sh or so. That in itself keeps my up to date on things, while also observing. 

Overall the gaming world is no different than the real world. Sure there will be shit people playing games and being just awful people in general in the gaming world. And like anything this is seen more from the outside. But there is a lot of good that goes on as well, from the companies to the players. I could go on quite a bit, but overall from what I have seen, there has been more good than not overall.

Like I said, I'm a gamer too and I agree with you that there are a lot of really great people in our communities. And, while the good definitely outweigh the bad, it's not a good idea to ignore the bad either. Gamergate really exposed how toxic some gaming communities are and it's better to face that head on rather than try to sweep it under the rug. And there continue to be problems, like the response to a transgender person and a lesbian couple being in The Last of Us 2 being the most recent one. Then there are the problems with the companies and loot boxes, working long hours and the often high human cost of making these games, among other things. 

The community has issues, but that wasn't the intention of my original post. I was just pointing out that basically every community that starts out as satirically mocking another group invariably becomes a breeding ground for said mocked group.

[BmorePat87]

A major QAnon site shut down after Bloomberg found out who ran it and reached out to them and their employer for comment.

The man is a security information analyst for Citigroup. He would not speak about the site but said Qanon was a patriotic group trying to save the country.

His Patreon account set up for the site made $3k a month.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/technology/516146-qanon-site-shutters-after-reports-identifying-developer?fbclid=IwAR2JWNRKI-WgpjGNrXi8Z8siiw2735Cf8utR9qkFvG8VerOrlpxDvxJ63c8