So, Trump is a racist alright.

[Vas Deferens]

[GMDino]

(07-19-2019, 02:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm going to do something you claim I've never done.  I am going to apologize for the racism accusations against you. 

Thanks.  Accepted.

[Dill]

(07-19-2019, 01:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You haven't found anything.  Seeing as you're the one who posted a racist picture your attempts to explain it away as not racist really can't be taken seriously by any right thinking individual.  If you posted a picture of any other ethnicity involving negative stereotypes it would be immediately, and correctly, denounced as racist.  That you are comfortable with your own racism is clear.  That you attempt to mitigate and explain it away is equally clear.  That you attempt to conceal this with overly verbose pontification is also clear.  I couldn't care less if you don't respond, I've long given up on having a rational conversation with you.

Not sure whether this is just a longer version of a face-saving exit ("tedious to repeat myself") or engagement marked by genuine inability to distinguish between arguments and impressions. E.g., all your "equally clear" claims are just unsupported statements, the logical equivalent of impressions, mere "denunciation."  You tend to "give up on rational conversation" precisely at those moments when I've identified logical inconsistencies in your arguments or questioned the purported self evidence of your definitions. If we are going by traditional canons of rational discourse, "right thinking" individuals don't respond to such by circular argument, by simply repeating the claims under question with the addition of question begging terms. They don't claim "concealment" without demonstration, and adjectives ("obvious," "clear") don't demonstrate.

Unless people have been following the MAGA thread, they don't know what arguments or "racist pictures" either of us is referring to here. If the above is not simply a long, bitter version of crying "uncle," then carry forward engagement not here, but on the MAGA thread, where readers can have full arguments directly before them and judge for themselves who is "explaining away" what, or not.

[Dill]

(07-19-2019, 02:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Having said all that, I stand by my assessment of Dill's picture of the "white trash" family.  It's in exceedingly poor taste and if it was a picture of any other ethnic group involving stereotypes of that nature it would be rightfully condemned.  If Dill wants to claim that he had no racist intent, I would accept that as long as it was coupled with an acknowledgement that the picture is not appropriate and could easily be construed as racist.

Well Dill claims no "racist intent."  

But, as argued on the MAGA thread, he thinks "appropriate" is a matter of context, no image inappropriate in itself.

A discussion which should continue not here, but there, where it could likely be resolved to mutual benefit. Sorting through what could or should count as racism is a worthy activity. Until we are in agreement, all arguments and claims can be regarded as provisional, put forward for testing.

[Bengalzona]

In defense of the President's racist comments, I'm told:

1) the "Betelgeuse Excuse" - "If the other side declares 'racism' three times or more, then the racism never occurred!" (alternately known as the "Racist" Quota System).

or

2) the "Idiot Savant Excuse" - "It's brilliant strategy! Act like a racist by making racist comments and get votes from racists!! Therefore, it couldn't be racist!!"

Is it so hard to accept the obvious alternative?

[GMDino]

Profiles in Courage from Mike Pence on racist chants at the president's rally: "If it happens again, he, he might, he might -- he -- make an effort to speak out about it." pic.twitter.com/QHasw20wUD

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 21, 2019

 

[Dill]

BengalzonaIn defense of the President's racist comments, I'm told:

1) the "Betelgeuse Excuse" - "If the other side declares 'racism' three times or more, then the racism never occurred!" (alternately known as the "Racist" Quota System).
or
2) the "Idiot Savant Excuse" - "It's brilliant strategy! Act like a racist by making racist comments and get votes from racists!! Therefore, it couldn't be racist!!"

Is it so hard to accept the obvious alternative?

LOL part of the "fake news" liberal socialist agenda is to make racism seem bad; then it can be used to attack Trump.

In any case, Pence has made it clear, Trump "might make an effort" to stop racist chanting at future rallies. 
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-pence-interview-on-face-the-nation-pence-says-trump-might-make-an-effort-to-stop-future-chants/

But more in line with your post, B-zona, this Mother Jones reporter has lined up the worst "defenses" of Trump's tweet.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/the-worst-responses-to-trumps-racist-tweets/

Like  [i]Maryland Congressman @RepAndyHarrisMD tells me President Trump's tweets this weekend were "clearly not racist" and that "he could have meant go back to the district they came from–to the neighborhood they came from." Full interview https://t.co/avXhiW2uBP[/i]

My personal favorite:
[i]Marc Short, Mike Pence's chief of staff, told Fox News viewers that Trump doesn't have "racist motives" because Elaine Chao is his transportation secretary. https://t.co/O6xuK0LhyO

Fox's Brit Hume believes that Trump's tweet did  not meet one of the three definitions of racism in Merriam Webster. According to one response, The standard is now officially three if you want to apply the term to Trump.https://twitter.com/TRB1783/status/1150799459288322048/photo/1[/i]

In a response to the article, Pence's Deputy press secretary explained why Elaine Chao is a better immigrant than a "hater" like Omar. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/pence-staffer-says-elaine-chao-is-a-better-immigrant-than-ilhan-omar/

Chao is Asian. How could THAT be xenophobic LOL.  Good immigrants don't criticize Trump.   

[jj22]

Well now it's patriotic to yell go back to where you came from or "send her home" at people. So Mrs. McDonnell and Melania won't have any problem when that is yelled at them.

And I'm sure Trump supporters won't mind it either.

And folks (in this thread) gave Trump credit for speaking out against it, and was upset when other posters didn't applaud him. Oops. Sounds like Trump conned those posters yet again.

[*bfine32*]

Apparently Chinese Immigrant and Miss Michigan winner is also a racist:

https://www.newsweek.com/who-kathy-zhu-trump-supporting-model-stripped-miss-michigan-title-over-racist-islamophobic-1450118

Quote:Zhu said on Twitter she had been stripped of her title "due to my refusal to try on a hijab in 2018, my tweet about black on black gun violence, and 'insensitive' statistical tweets."

As to how this relates to OP: can anyone guess why he didn't ask why she doesn't go back to China????? Here's a hint: It's not because of race.

[Belsnickel]

(07-22-2019, 12:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Apparently Chinese Immigrant and Miss Michigan winner is also a racist:

https://www.newsweek.com/who-kathy-zhu-trump-supporting-model-stripped-miss-michigan-title-over-racist-islamophobic-1450118


As to how this relates to OP: can anyone guess why he didn't ask why she doesn't go back to China????? Here's a hint: It's not because of race.

So he only employs racist tropes against his opponents. That doesn't lessen the racism of the comments.

[jj22]

It sure doesn't. So he's her "black friend"...

That means nothing. Every racist has to have one to point to. Oldest trick in the book.

Just like the Uncle Toms back in the day who thought they were better than the cotton picking blacks, they beat them, told the masters on them, acted like slavery wasn't' that bad and masters treat blacks good.......... Until they did something wrong and the slave owner turned on them, beat them, raped them, threw them out to the field, and treated them like all the other slaves..... Then they tried to be all "for their people". Too little too late.

Say one bad thing about Trump and she'll get the go back to where you came from treatment from him and his supporters. She should try it and see how quick they turn on her.

Old lesson for minorities just wanting to be accepted and loved. They'll never be "one of them". They'll just get to think they are as long as they play nice.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2019, 01:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So he only employs racist tropes against his opponents. That doesn't lessen the racism of the comments.

Not to you.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2019, 01:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: It sure doesn't. So he's her "black friend"...

That means nothing. Every racist has to have one to point to. Oldest trick in the book.

Just like the Uncle Toms back in the day who thought they were better than the cotton picking blacks, they beat them, told the masters on them, acted like slavery wasn't' that bad and masters treat blacks good.......... Until they did something wrong and the slave owner turned on them, beat them, raped them, threw them out to the field, and treated them like all the other slaves..... Then they tried to be all "for their people". Too little too late.

Say one bad thing about Trump and she'll get the go back to where you came from treatment from him and his supporters. She should try it and see how quick they turn on her.

Old lesson for minorities just wanting to be accepted and loved. They'll never be "one of them". They'll just get to think they are as long as they play nice.

Now you're learning.

[GMDino]

(07-22-2019, 01:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So he only employs racist tropes against his opponents. That doesn't lessen the racism of the comments.

(07-22-2019, 02:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not to you.

(07-22-2019, 01:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: It sure doesn't. So he's her "black friend"...

That means nothing. Every racist has to have one to point to. Oldest trick in the book.

Just like the Uncle Toms back in the day who thought they were better than the cotton picking blacks, they beat them, told the masters on them, acted like slavery wasn't' that bad and masters treat blacks good.......... Until they did something wrong and the slave owner turned on them, beat them, raped them, threw them out to the field, and treated them like all the other slaves..... Then they tried to be all "for their people". Too little too late.

Say one bad thing about Trump and she'll get the go back to where you came from treatment from him and his supporters. She should try it and see how quick they turn on her.

Old lesson for minorities just wanting to be accepted and loved. They'll never be "one of them". They'll just get to think they are as long as they play nice.

(07-22-2019, 02:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Now you're learning.

That Trump says racist things against people he disagrees with?

What are you saying? That as long as he doesn't say racist things to people who agree with him then he can't be racist?

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2019, 02:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: That Trump says racist things against people he disagrees with?

What are you saying?  That as long as he doesn't say racist things to people who agree with him then he can't be racist?

My view on rather the comments were racist or not has been well known. He didn't tell anyone to go anywhere (regardless how it's being paraphrased) and he invited them to return. He made the tweet not out of racism but out of the fact they disagree with him.

I get and can appreciate why folks want to simply paint them as racist; however, I consider intent to be a huge factor in determining whether something is racist.

I'm saying what I'm said all along: IMO Trump is not a racist. Race was not a factor in Trump's tweet. He just happened to disagree with women of color and their appreciation for this Nation.

Of course the above is simply my opinion; hopefully I'm entitled to it.

[GMDino]

Seriously, Does it hurt to twist this much?

(07-22-2019, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My view on rather the comments were racist or not has been well known. He didn't tell anyone to go anywhere (regardless how it's being paraphrased)

He literally told them to go "somewhere".

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Literally.

It's not a paraphrase. He said "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came". Unless you are playing the He said "why don't they" so he was just asking not saying they should...in which case that is first class trolling.

Also...

(07-22-2019, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: and he invited them to return.

How does one "return" if they never went "anywhere"?

(07-22-2019, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He made the tweet not out of racism but out of the fact they disagree with him.

And he said something racist. Being angry about someone (gasp) disagree with him isn't a good excuse to be racist.

(07-22-2019, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get and can appreciate why folks want to simply paint them as racist; however, I consider intent to be a huge factor in determining whether something is racist.

I'm saying what I'm said all along: IMO Trump is not a racist. Race was not a factor in Trump's tweet. He just happened to disagree with women of color and their appreciation for this Nation.

Of course the above is simply my opinion; hopefully I'm entitled to it.

You are entitled to have an opinion...and it is acknowledged. And it is complete wrong even by your own post above.

No one WANTS To "paint them as racist" they just are. To anyone who doesn't HAVE to defend DJT at every turn.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2019, 03:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seriously, Does it hurt to twist this much?


He literally told them to go "somewhere".

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Literally.

It's not a paraphrase.  He said "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came".  Unless you are playing the He said "why don't they" so he was just asking not saying they should...in which case that is first class trolling.

Also...


How does one "return" if they never went "anywhere"?



And he said something racist.  Being angry about someone (gasp) disagree with him isn't a good excuse to be racist.


You are entitled to have an opinion...and it is acknowledged.  And it is complete wrong even by your own post above.

No one WANTS To "paint them as racist" they just are.  To anyone who doesn't HAVE to defend DJT at every turn.

Why do I have to keep repeating this? (See what I did)

I'm simply providing my opinion. I have little doubt you and others think it is "wrong".

If calling his comment ignorant is having "to defend DJT at every turn"; then guilty as charged. Just seems you sit the bar quite low.

[BmorePat87]

(07-22-2019, 03:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seriously, Does it hurt to twist this much?


He literally told them to go "somewhere".

....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 14, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Literally.

It's not a paraphrase.  He said "Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came".  Unless you are playing the He said "why don't they" so he was just asking not saying they should...in which case that is first class trolling.

Also...


How does one "return" if they never went "anywhere"?



And he said something racist.  Being angry about someone (gasp) disagree with him isn't a good excuse to be racist.


You are entitled to have an opinion...and it is acknowledged.  And it is complete wrong even by your own post above.

No one WANTS To "paint them as racist" they just are.  To anyone who doesn't HAVE to defend DJT at every turn.

Ignore his pathetic trolling. 

[GMDino]

(07-22-2019, 03:44 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Ignore his pathetic trolling. 

My bad.

[BmorePat87]

The praise for Trump "condemning" the chant was premature. Friday he was asked about the chant he said he was "unhappy" with and if he'd take the tweet back. His response:

“You know what I’m unhappy with? I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can hate our country. I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can say anti-Semitic things. I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman — in this case, a different congresswoman — can call our country, and our people, garbage. That’s what I’m unhappy with. Those people in North Carolina, that stadium was packed. It was a record crowd and I could’ve filled it 10 times, as you know. Those are incredible people, those are incredible patriots. But I’m unhappy when a congresswoman goes and says, ‘I’m going to be the president’s nightmare.’ She’s going to be the president’s nightmare. She’s lucky to be where she is, let me tell you. And the things she has said are a disgrace to our country.”