So, in a big nutshell. (aka jump!)

[hollodero]

I'm done observing. I will reduce my time here the coming weeks, after all no football, so I leave my synopsis.
First, a rich vain egomaniac who just blurs out nonsense he hears or reads anywhere with an attitude of never-ending self love and borderless self-confidence has a strange fascination for certain people, like a spell. Oh he is smart, he just says stuff that's in his head. And has so much money, so smart.
That just flaming the media with nothing but ignorance towards facts and the truth is a working strategy is part of that.

And the most part of it is? Loyalty to the party color. The absurdest debates are led because the color fits. Liberal tears, yeehah! Snowflakes, oh, are you crying? Hahaaa! Who cares what Trump does or about his priorities or tax returns or whatever. Yes, it's the biggest crowd ever, let's debate that fake news media lie, because look at Obama's the floors weren't white then, so it's an optical illusion, the pictures are fake, the time stamp doesn't match, the angles are all wrong, the metro was filled, the roads were blocked, it was raining, it was not raining because Trump said God made the rain stop, ah whatever, but they showed the liberal media, those fake news liberals... he played them perfectly... oh and Trump doesn't really care about it despite bringing it up 10.000 times. And what ever nonsense. Team Not-Blue! Team Not-Blue! Sorry, but these absurd debates are nearing the regions of pathological craziness. Defending a man's blatant vanity and the completely made up stuff he lets his minions spill out to feed his hunger for greatness. What ridiculous gloating, what absurd claims, what utterly stupid tweets, what devastating character flaws for a president. What worldwide ridicule. What loyal followers. But - he's not a liberal! Everything else is moot.
I have no reason not to believe the blue side is a more noble winner, I wouldn't know. Not blasting one side particularly, but I now know the red side is. The extremes it takes, the absurd lengths people are actually willing to go through, stem from Trump and are shown because of him. That's what's scary. That people stick to him no matter into what depths. His base might actually be loyal into autocracy. After all, still not a liberal!

And for the nutshell part - that turns out to be the biggest mistake your founding fathers made. Intentionally or unintentionally putting the constitution into the rank of eternal and undisputable. And with it the two-party system.

And there's the result. The country has gotten sclerotic. A strict two-party system has turned it into a half that doesn't care anymore - a few disgruntled swing voters (yeahyeah the forgotten worker and the anti-establishment guys) that decide the elections - and two political Americas in strictest opposition. You have a thick, thick border standing there, built through centuries of partisanship, dug free by extremism. It's gotten to color over sanity. No offense, just observation. No one can believe Trump is the uniter or voted for him on that premise. He's the birther. This was mainly an anti-blue vote, like probably always.

The divide is not Obama. It's not Trump. The partisan blame game is pointless. It's the long history of being the yin or the yang. If there weren't these deeply dug-in borders way more people would already agree through all colors and leanings that Trump is a disaster. Because he is and denying that has gotten really dense. He's not that smart, there's no reason to believe that. He's not trustworthy, not a single aspect of his life would allow that assumption. He doesn't surround himself with good people, they seem to be unable to give him basic information. And he's incompetent, a narcissist and a pathological liar. He is not a president. Now he calls the media fake news again and cites a Rush Limbaugh opinion as proof and model. I mean, Jesus Christ people, and it's a daily Jesus Christ people, one lie and self-glorification and pointless assault after the other. And the national security card was already drawn, he sure behaves like a souvereign and his minions are already there to promote authoritarian policies, he complains in his function of POTUS that poor pushing Ivanka can not sell her stuff at Nordstrom anymore. You fine with all that, because, hahahillaryous?

You conservative people need to stay exactly what you are - and jump ship on Trump now. (I promise, if you do it now, I won't make a fuzz and insult everyone on the grounds of his junk size and mother who would dare to be condescending because of it.) That man is not fit for office. You could at least unite as a country for once in that one. Try Pence if you must make that compromise. Just line up against that disaster. I know you won't and no one jumps, but it's too bad really. So sad. 

(But just consider - if you ever had a minute of doubt - the later you jump, the less credit there is. This is offering a jump free from shame card! What will history say if you don't?)

--
It's hard for me to get. Why there is not a way stronger movement calling for fundamental reform of the political system as of now. Why not everyone calls for that at this point of history, where you've thrown the detonator in anyway. That's the obvious answer, not making more house calls in 2020, stupid democrats. The system brought you divide, deep and obvious trenches, brought you Trump, brought you gerrymandering, brought you blocking and stalemates and policy swings without progress. Your country probably just goes democrats next time and there's that. But it isn't. Your system worked an astonishly long time, but it's worked out now, has reached its final stage of functionality and you need to see it. Or at least credibly deny it.

I would say you need more colors and kill voting districts and majority voting. But that's just one possibility.
In an even smaller nutshell, go Libertarians!
I didn't really mean that. I just want Rotobeast to still love me.

Oh and in the end, as an European I don't personally care, don't demand fundamental changes, give your democracy up in partisan schadenfreude. Just wait, everybody gets there someday! While you diss each other over crowd sizes, business and high finance run the show. Because that's what a democracy becomes when half of the people don't participate. A mere circus for the other half.
Have a nice one.

[Rotobeast]

(02-17-2017, 11:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: I would say you need more colors and kill voting districts and majority voting. But that's just one possibility.
In an even smaller nutshell, go Libertarians!
I didn't really mean that. I just want Rotobeast to still love me.

How could I not ???


I was hoping to get your feedback on the Larry Sharpe video I had posted.
His philosophy is the same as mine and I am going to be using his methods and videos to advance Libertarianism in my area.

[NATI BENGALS]

Fake observations

[*bfine32*]

[SteelCitySouth]

(02-18-2017, 01:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote:

That guy is all talk And gets his "just deserts" at the end.  Fitting I guess.

[Dill]

(02-17-2017, 11:59 PM)hollodero Wrote:  Trump is a disaster. Because he is and denying that has gotten really dense. He's not that smart, there's no reason to believe that. He's not trustworthy, not a single aspect of his life would allow that assumption. He doesn't surround himself with good people, they seem to be unable to give him basic information. And he's incompetent, a narcissist and a pathological liar. He is not a president. Now he calls the media fake news again and cites a Rush Limbaugh opinion as proof and model. I mean, Jesus Christ people, and it's a daily Jesus Christ people, one lie and self-glorification and pointless assault after the other. And the national security card was already drawn, he sure behaves like a souvereign and his minions are already there to promote authoritarian policies, he complains in his function of POTUS that poor pushing Ivanka can not sell her stuff at Nordstrom anymore. You fine with all that, because, hahahillaryous?

LOL Hollo, when are you going to stop mincing words and tell us what you REALLY think about Trump??

Sorry to hear you are reducing your time with us.  One last comment though, before you sidle off.

I think you may be missing something about the whole Trump phenomenon. Most of the world and most of America see the lies and incompetence.  But NOT ALL of America sees a problem. 

We have Trump because there is an effective plurality of Trump voters who DO NOT see a pathological incompetent making uniformed misstep after uninformed misstep, exactly as Hillary and some Republicans warned us. They believe him a much more trustworthy guide than the MSM who has begun to pull back jobs from abroad and drain the swamp.

Talking directly with the president of Taiwan, questioning the value of NATO, Telling off the press and firing state department workers without ready replacements, challenging the veracity of the CIA, and resetting with Russia all makes sense to people who don't know much about how government actually works.

It goes completely unregistered that highly respected Generals Harward and Petraeus (who are definitely NOT MSM liberals) and others will not tie their careers to a chaotic administration.  Fox news has been telling them all along that the MSM is "biased" and now the president acknowledges that. FINALLY someone in a leadership position admits millions of illegals vote for Democrats.  They embrace confusion over every issue from evolution and global warming to whether Hillary really was involved in child trafficking. If their knows is fake news then it's all fake news and you just trust whom you want to.

On a closing note, I am happy to see you are edging away from the "both sides are equally partisan" nonsense which neuters so much necessary critique of Trump's party.

[hollodero]

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Hollo, when are you going to stop mincing words and tell us what you REALLY think about Trump??

Sorry to hear you are reducing your time with us.  One last comment though, before you sidle off.

I won't leave for good though. So no biggie, but more of a justification to sum things up and give an honest outsiders opinion.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: I think you may be missing something about the whole Trump phenomenon. Most of the world and most of America see the lies and incompetence.  But NOT ALL of America sees a problem. 

But they have to come around at some point. Trump is Trump, what actually really shocks me is the republican party. They are supposed to be the patriots, but they more seem like just the anti-liberal fighters who gladly throw the country under the bus if only the liberals are under that bus, too. Not only neutered, but at this point outright treacherous by not stepping in and letting a stupid gloating manbaby with omnipotence phantasies make the decisions based on his daily mood and how much praise others have for him. Who called the media enemy of the people, for Christs sake, except for FOX and Rush Limbaugh of all people. They say the world laughed at Obama, but in reality the world laughs and laughs right now about Trump (a scared laugh that is). And about you not doing anything about it. Your country loses so much respect on a daily basis, you're probably not even aware of that. (Or don't care, which is fair enough.)

As for the people, the anti-liberal thing goes to extraordinary lengths, as I said. I will say stuff you can't say, that at this point I feel for many it's the result of intellectual envy. Some team red people feel belittled by team blue because of an inferiority complex. Not saying they are all dumb (although many are, no sugercoating), some here go to incredible constructs af alternative logic to defend Trump that show a sharp intelligence - just not so sharp party-free common sense. But they are so easily offended and turn so hostile so quickly, get trapped in logical conundrums because of fundamental rejection of anything even remotely blue leaning. And it hurts to see because these are not stupid people. Although always implying one might think that. When in fact I just think they are incredibly dense people that mastered the craft of self-induced brainwashing and refuse to see it. If they just saw what is there, they would make such an easy jump (at least to Pence :) ) that would really earn them nothing but respect. But nope, they go down with the captain as appreciation that he is at least not blue. Which leads to the roots, the system, the fundamental flaws and what was already said.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: We have Trump because there is an effective plurality of Trump voters who DO NOT see a pathological incompetent making uniformed misstep after uninformed misstep, exactly as Hillary and some Republicans warned us. They believe him a much more trustworthy guide than the MSM who has begun to pull back jobs from abroad and drain the swamp.

lol yeah, with Goldman Sachs guys and such. As if they hadn't caused the problem in the first place. That is one of the amazing things, how people in all seriousness could evoke that old joke of the fat sheep being less corrupt. Which is blatantly illogical.
In general you've reached a point where truth, logic and consistency has become leftist ideology.
Hence, as a society and a country you failed and continue failing the intelligence test. No offense, my country does that all the time. I just hope that there are 100.000 people from abroad and with no ties to a certain political agenda (I was called "liberal", which is amazing, as if I would mind about US parties or US labels in the first place) that keep telling you again and again, so finally these voices are heard.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: Talking directly with the president of Taiwan, questioning the value of NATO, Telling off the press and firing state department workers without ready replacements, challenging the veracity of the CIA, and resetting with Russia all makes sense to people who don't know much about how government actually works.

It goes completely unregistered that highly respected Generals Harward and Petraeus (who are definitely NOT MSM liberals) and others will not tie their careers to a chaotic administration.  Fox news has been telling them all along that the MSM is "biased" and now the president acknowledges that. FINALLY someone in a leadership position admits millions of illegals vote for Democrats.  They embrace confusion over every issue from evolution and global warming to whether Hillary really was involved in child trafficking. If their knows is fake news then it's all fake news and you just trust whom you want to.

On a closing note, I am happy to see you are edging away from the "both sides are equally partisan" nonsense which neuters so much necessary critique of Trump's party.

Petraeus was the one who gave information to his love affair, right? He might have other reasons, then. Harward, that counts.
And I agree, many probably don't see the lies and misinformations because these misinformations are what they hear every day on the only news networks they watch. But that cannot be 50%+ people. (Maybe the hope really lies in those who didn't vote at all.) And - the other side is not completely free of that phenomena, too.
Not that I want to force an equivalency, though. FOX is not like CNN, only conservative instead of liberal. That doesn't stand an honest evaluation. False equivalencies  I always was opposed to "Obama was just the same, did just the same, there's no difference" stuff. Trump aims for a fact-free opinion dictate, called the media the enemy of the people and tries to force them to come around and bend over. Obama never did that. That can't be what people really want. Unless you're a partisan hack that needs to become the patriotic hack again. White House people leak left and right to show what an incompetent man-child is doing - they do it out of utter despair, I feel. Russia is fake news. As if, Jeez. Sure, I have to "come around" because this is just utterly stupid, and people swallowing that BS because fake news and liberal tears and stuff are completely trapped in an alternative reality. I never thought that to be possible. Can't possibly give a fair evaluation that includes equality here.

I am also opposed to give the other side the get free of shame card. Many problems are home-made, like media being influenced by interest groups and subjected to the profit motive, and the claim of total moral superiority and thematic leadership and all that. Rigging the nomination against Bernie is a historically awful move. Hillary has her merits for sure, but she was a bad candidate. But the major flaw is not one side or the other, but your system, as I said Trump basically won because it just was time for a red guy again. Talking about flaws, the finger-pointing to the other side is not the solution, the finger-pointing to the two-party system is. But I can make this point over and over, it always ends up with debating Trump vs. liberals.

[Dill]

(02-18-2017, 03:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: In general you've reached a point where truth, logic and consistency has become leftist ideology.
Hence, as a society and a country you failed and continue failing the intelligence test. No offense, my country does that all the time. I just hope that there are 100.000 people from abroad and with no ties to a certain political agenda (I was called "liberal", which is amazing, as if I would mind about US parties or US labels in the first place) that keep telling you again and again, so finally these voices are heard.

I am also opposed to give the other side the get free of shame card. Many problems are home-made, like media being influenced by interest groups and subjected to the profit motive, and the claim of total moral superiority and thematic leadership and all that. Rigging the nomination against Bernie is a historically awful move. Hillary has her merits for sure, but she was a bad candidate. But the major flaw is not one side or the other, but your system, as I said Trump basically won because it just was time for a red guy again. Talking about flaws, the finger-pointing to the other side is not the solution, the finger-pointing to the two-party system is. But I can make this point over and over, it always ends up with debating Trump vs. liberals.

This is why I like to hear views from outside the USA fishbowl. 

Yes, empirical truth, logical consistency etc., are now evidence of "bias"--even condescension.  The MSM is more frequently guilty of this. Hence "leftist." Despite your very telling point that it is a for-profit media. And I believe you noted on another thread how Amero-centric our MSM is when reporting foreign affairs. The German media, for example, though very guilt-conscious and sensitive, are much better on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Parliamentary system, as unwieldly as it is, produces a better informed public I think, supports a more diverse range of news sources.  

As for the "free of shame card"--the point is not to condemn or exonerate anyone. For me, at least, it is a matter of returning public/political discourse to some kind of accountability and stability.  Saying "both sides are guilty" without breaking down their different logics, tactics, and truth claims just perpetuates the muddle.   

[Dill]

Petraeus' security breech might have drawn criticism, sure. A lot of enlisted are angry that he got off so easy.  But NSC advisor doesn't require anyone's ok but the president's. I

But both Petraeus and Harward backed off because they could not control the composition of the NSC staff. Imagine being forced to keep a Fox News Commentator on board! Much less Bannon.

Either one looked to be very competent--much more so than high-flying, reckless, conspiracy-theorist Flynn.

This is not the only position in which the talent is hanging back. Few want to alight their career stars with a Trump administration which will inevitably fail.  No one wants to be in the position of Spicer, making statements that are outright lies because they are so ordered to.

[hollodero]

(02-18-2017, 04:15 PM)Dill Wrote: This is why I like to hear views from outside the USA fishbowl. 

Yes, empirical truth, logical consistency etc., are now evidence of "bias"--even condescension.  The MSM is more frequently guilty of this. Hence "leftist." Despite your very telling point that it is a for-profit media. And I believe you noted on another thread how Amero-centric our MSM is when reporting foreign affairs. The German media, for example, though very guilt-conscious and sensitive, are much better on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Parliamentary system, as unwieldly as it is, produces a better informed public I think, supports a more diverse range of news sources.  

As for the "free of shame card"--the point is not to condemn or exonerate anyone. For me, at least, it is a matter of returning public/political discourse to some kind of accountability and stability.  Saying "both sides are guilty" without breaking down their different logics, tactics, and truth claims just perpetuates the muddle.   

Yeah alright, I can get behind that. And Amero-centric, I said something like that and really meant it, but it's not really just me. Only a few people in Europe think CNN is too credible. We felt they blindly fell in line with their patriotic duty during Iraq war times, for example. I guess Americans have a different take on that and that's fine. I merely pointed that out to show that I am not an automatic defender of CNN and other networks as "beacons of truth" that are under such devious presidential attack now.

What is completely unprecedented is a president calling every media outlet except from Rush Limbaugh enemy of the people - because rush rushed to show his undying Trump love and for no other reason than that - a pure dictator move. I know I mentioned that often already, but it's so damn unbelievable it needs to be repeated again and again. I despise every republican sitting in Congress and senate backing this kind of behaviour, and that has nothing to do with being "liberal". (The baffled democratic party can vanish too, although not without the red team leading the way into oblivion. Make room for brandnew alternatives.) Damn unpatriotic red hacks, at this point I honestly feel I love America in its entirety more than they do. No kidding. From the outside, maybe Calexit moves really are the answer to that, when one side gladly would drive democracy into the ground just if it takes the hated side with it. If that's what would remain. A wasteland and a liberal tears mug on top of it.

How can any conservative rally behind that. It's really disheartening.

[Dill]

(02-18-2017, 04:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah alright, I can get behind that. And Amero-centric, I said something like that and really meant it, but it's not really just me. Only a few people in Europe think CNN is too credible. We felt they blindly fell in line with their patriotic duty during Iraq war times, for example. I guess Americans have a different take on that and that's fine. I merely pointed that out to show that I am not an automatic defender of CNN and other networks as "beacons of truth" that are under such devious presidential attack now.

Well, know that I agree with you on that. The Iraq war is one example. Whenever Israel invades Gaza it's the same. We hear all about Israel's right to protect itself from a population it imprisons. How many times is the U.S. that one critical abstention in UN votes on Palestine?

The healthcare debate shows a similar Amero-centrism. We hear how bad all the "socialists" have it in France and Germany and Sweden. We are so LUCKY with our medical bankruptcies and all.

We had Al Jazeera for a while, which would air segments in which representatives of Hezbollah and Hamas could actually speak for themselves. On top of that, they ran documentaries on poverty in the U.S. and the like--horrors, like we were a 3rd world country!  People hated it. We are the best. And our news organizations (with one or two sterling exceptions) tend to agree.  

[Dill]

(02-18-2017, 04:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: What is completely unprecedented is a president calling every media outlet except from Rush Limbaugh enemy of the people - because rush rushed to show his undying Trump love and for no other reason than that - a pure dictator move. I know I mentioned that often already, but it's so damn unbelievable it needs to be repeated again and again. I despise every republican sitting in Congress and senate backing this kind of behaviour, and that has nothing to do with being "liberal".
How can any conservative rally behind that. It's really disheartening.

That news conference was reportedly the deal breaker for Harward.  

Don't get entirely disheartened. A large number of Republicans and Republican Congressmen disliked Trump from the get go. His behavior is gradually giving them permission to dissent. And remember Trump is getting worse, not better. Next week this list forum will throw up threads on entirely new scandals, while this week's linger on. The chaos will continue, week after week, month after month, until he is gone.

The Trumpster core, of course, still thinks his performance is great. It might be that a significant segment of American voters don't really grasp the principle of free press. Like Trump, they don't perceive questions about dealings with Russia as legitimate and in the people's interest--just a lib media attack from those who wanted Hillary to win. And the heroic Trump doesn't back down like other politicians. In a perversion of the 1st Amendment, they actually see a strong leader fighting for them when he deflects accountability and undermines the press.

But I also think that more and more Americans who voted for Trump (not his base) are gradually realizing that he does not want a free press, that refusing to call on legitimate reporters while doling out press badges to right wing bloggers is a strategy for avoiding accountability, for expanding the right wing Bubble, where "facts" like millions of illegals voting circulate unchallenged and liberals only imagine T's partiality to Russia.

[hollodero]

(02-18-2017, 06:50 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, know that I agree with you on that. The Iraq war is one example. Whenever Israel invades Gaza it's the same. We hear all about Israel's right to protect itself from a population it imprisons. How many times is the U.S. that one critical abstention in UN votes on Palestine?

The healthcare debate shows a similar Amero-centrism. We hear how bad all the "socialists" have it in France and Germany and Sweden. We are so LUCKY with our medical bankruptcies and all.

We had Al Jazeera for a while, which would air segments in which representatives of Hezbollah and Hamas could actually speak for themselves. On top of that, they ran documentaries on poverty in the U.S. and the like--horrors, like we were a 3rd world country!  People hated it. We are the best. And our news organizations (with one or two sterling exceptions) tend to agree.  

Yo. I don't want to get into the whole Israel thing, because that's a whole new thread topic. We historically do not look at that one impartially too, since there was some Holocaust going on recently withiin our boirders. It was so clear that only Anti-Semites would come out against Israel that right now - indeed only Anti-Semites come out against Israel. Maybe it's really not Germany's or Austria's place to get mixed in on that one, we leave that up to you, as blatantly loyal as you are.

As for the socialist health care, yeah we do have it bad. When we're sick, we go to the doctors and get treatment no matter the economic situation. Everyone, including those grandparents who aren't that rich and still want to get a few more years. That really is awful, sure. That being said, don't just copy the European model, as it just doesn't suit US mentality. And it does come with certain flaws that are not to be overseen.

(That Al Jazeera is not the kind of network that would get too many fans is somehow understandable for me, too. Can't hold that one against you, the US is just an unlikely market to begin with.)

[hollodero]

(02-18-2017, 07:10 PM)Dill Wrote: That news conference was reportedly the deal breaker for Harward.  

Well, good for him.

(02-18-2017, 07:10 PM)Dill Wrote: Don't get entirely disheartened. A large number of Republicans and Republican Congressmen disliked Trump from the get go. His behavior is gradually giving them permission to dissent. And remember Trump is getting worse, not better. Next week this list forum will throw up threads on entirely new scandals, while this week's linger on. The chaos will continue, week after week, month after month, until he is gone.

But week after week it gets more difficult to jump ship. After they already have swallowed so many things. I don't know, I'm not that optimistic any more. As months go by, reputations are more and more damaged, hence they tie themselves to Trump tighter and tighter.
Gradually giving them permission? Is this some kind of kidding? Your president called the media "enemy of the people"! He shoves his tiny middle finger right into the face of core democratic principles and red-hearted people keep standing by and taking it. This doesn't get better when people just get used to that and develop alternative thinking instead.
Week after week. This was already true so many weeks ago. This should have stopped way earlier, in fact when the birther thing broke out, or week after week when the weekly new instances of inacceptable sayings came along. That were eaten up again and again. The red congressmen and senators didn't stand up by now, so they are enablers that have nothing to hope for any longer by standing up at some point. Too much have they already taken, too deep is they hole they dug for themselves by letting things go. They are tied to the ship. Now it's just a weekly challenge in inventing alternative facts. I hope I'm wrong, of course. But I see no reason for counting on any red partisan hack any longer.

(02-18-2017, 07:10 PM)Dill Wrote: The Trumpster core, of course, still thinks his performance is great. It might be that a significant segment of American voters don't really grasp the principle of free press. Like Trump, they don't perceive questions about dealings with Russia as legitimate and in the people's interest--just a lib media attack from those who wanted Hillary to win.

Which is why some people with backbone who do have some credibility in those circles need to stand up and protect your democracy like right now. But no, dopey Rand Paul explicitely says, hell no we won't go against fellow republicans. Good for you, you spineless little worm.
Who really cares if Russia meddles with our democracy? At least it's not the liberals! That's all that counts.
Nope, I do not count on these people any more. They are neutered. My hopes rest on the CIA right now, as awful as that sounds, CIA and FBI are bound to save your democracy. Republicans would just ignore any evidence and move on, it seems rather obvious.

(02-18-2017, 07:10 PM)Dill Wrote: But I also think that more and more Americans who voted for Trump (not his base) are gradually realizing that he does not want a free press, that refusing to call on legitimate reporters while doling out press badges to right wing bloggers is a strategy for avoiding accountability, for expanding the right wing Bubble, where "facts" like millions of illegals voting circulate unchallenged and liberals only imagine T's partiality to Russia.

I don't know. Whoever doesn't get it right now is no one I would count on. Liberal hate trumps everything.

[hollodero]

Kudos to John McCain for speaking out on behalf of core democratic values.

Look at that old honorable soldier, fellow republicans. And feel ashamed.

[GMDino]

(02-19-2017, 04:45 PM)hollodero Wrote: Kudos to John McCain for speaking out on behalf of core democratic values.

Look at that old honorable soldier, fellow republicans. And feel ashamed.

I wish they could.  But good old "libertarian" Rand Paul is already complaining.

http://thehill.com/policy/international/320290-rand-paul-were-very-lucky-john-mccains-not-in-charge

Quote:Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.) ripped fellow Republican Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) on Sunday after McCain criticized President Trump’s escalating war of words with the media.

He argued that the nation is “very lucky” that Trump is president and not McCain, who won the 2008 GOP nomination but lost to Barack Obama in the general election.

Paul said that McCain’s recent criticisms of Trump are driven by his “personal dispute” with the president over foreign policy.

He added that McCain and Trump are at odds because McCain supports the wide deployment of U.S. troops to protect and promote American interests abroad while he characterized Trump’s views as closer to a realpolitik approach to foreign policy.

“Everything that he says about the president is colored by his own personal dispute he’s got running with President Trump, and it should be taken with a grain of salt, because John McCain’s the guy who’s advocated for war everywhere,” Paul said on ABC’s “This Week.”

“He would bankrupt the nation. We’re very lucky John McCain’s not in charge, because I think we’d be in perpetual war,” Paul added.
McCain in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press” warned that the suppression of a free press can lead to a dictatorial regime. He made the comments after Trump tweeted on Friday that the media is “the enemy of the American people.”

McCain has also harshly criticized Trump’s expressed respect for Russian President Vladimir Putin and his suggestion earlier this month that the United States does not have the moral authority to criticize Russia’s human rights record.

Paul said there has no effort by the Trump administration to suppress the media, noting that no legislation has been offered to curb press freedoms.

Paul argued that McCain has a history of being wrong major foreign policy questions.

“I would say John McCain’s been wrong on just about everything over the last four decades. He advocated for the Iraq War, which I think destabilized the Middle East,” he said.

“If you look at the map, there’s probably at least six different countries where John McCain has advocated for us having boots on the ground,” he added.

And completely ignores what Trump says and does because of his own political reasons: ending the ACA and cutting everything he can.

[hollodero]

(02-19-2017, 04:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: And completely ignores what Trump says and does because of his own political reasons: ending the ACA and cutting everything he can.

I already called Paul a spineless little worm and my only regret is to not have used sharper terms to describe that guy.

To imagine I once kind of liked him. Brrr.

[hollodero]

Also Kudos to Chris Wallace of FOX news which I see as an outlet of the republican party for telling his viewership that Donald Trump has crossed a line. Also Shepard Smith.
Maybe I was wrong and republicans are finally starting to react to the danger accordingly.

Still right about changing the whole voting system, though. And that Rand Paul is a spineless little worm.

[Rotobeast]

Oh.. for funzies !

*language warning*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-17/senator-mccain-falls-absurd-russian-prankster-pretending-be-ukrainian-prime-minister

[hollodero]

(02-21-2017, 03:21 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Oh.. for funzies !

*language warning*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-17/senator-mccain-falls-absurd-russian-prankster-pretending-be-ukrainian-prime-minister

Jeez, where do you find these sites?

"Liberalism is a mental disorder"... hehe