So much for "it's a manufactured crisis"..

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2019, 07:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But that isn't, and hasn't, been the largest driver of illegal immigration. Economic reasons have really been the primary force for decades. I'm aware that doesn't allow for asylum claims, but asylum seekers don't make up the majority of illegal border crossings.

Are you suggesting that the majority of those in the caravans are not seeking asylum? 

[Belsnickel]

(04-02-2019, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are you suggesting that the majority of those in the caravans are not seeking asylum? 

No. My suggestion is that those in the caravans make up a small fraction of the illegal entries in this country.

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2019, 09:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No. My suggestion is that those in the caravans make up a small fraction of the illegal entries in this country.

I'll leave it to Mike to explain his point then. I don't want to try to answer a question posed to someone else. I know how much you frown on that. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-02-2019, 09:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll leave it to Mike to explain his point then. I don't want to try to answer a question posed to someone else. I know how much you frown on that. 

Well, as long as you have the answer, what's the harm in answering the question?  I mean, it's better than sitting in the back of the room with your hand up going "oh, I know this, pick me!".

[*bfine32*]

(04-02-2019, 09:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, as long as you have the answer, what's the harm in answering the question?  I mean, it's better than sitting in the back of the room with your hand up going "oh, I know this, pick me!".

You'd have to ask Matt that

[Dill]

(04-02-2019, 04:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: 3 years is more than a couple and less than a dozen, but hey, we've been sending aid for much longer than that right??

But let's talk %'s

Percentages--data--are important. But we also need to talk cause and effect--that is the key to understanding any decision to stop aid to the "Mexican countries" south of Mexico.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle
Why has violence persisted?

Weak, underfunded institutions, combined with corruption, have undermined efforts to address gang violence and extortion. Tax revenues as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) in the Northern Triangle are among the lowest in Latin America, exacerbating inequality and straining public services. Transparency International, a global anticorruption watchdog, places all three countries in the bottom half of its corruption perceptions rankings. Honduran institutions remain particularly shaky following a 2009 coup—Latin America’s first in nearly two decades—and a contested presidential election in 2017.

As many as 95 percent of crimes go unpunished [PDF] in some areas, and the public has little trust in the police and security forces. (The police and military were accused of widespread human rights abuses during El Salvador’s and Guatemala’s civil wars.) “There has been so much penetration of the state and so much criminal involvement in security forces, it makes it difficult to think about how they would [reform] without some outside intervention,” says Eric Olson, an expert on the region at the Wilson Center.

How have Northern Triangle countries tried to stop the violence?

In the early 2000s, Northern Triangle governments enacted a series of mano dura, or “heavy hand,” policies that expanded police powers and enacted harsher punishments for gang members. Around the same time, military personnel were deployed [PDF] to carry out police functions.

Though popular [PDF], these policies in most cases failed to reduce crime and could have indirectly led to a growth in gang membership. Mass incarcerations increased the burden on already overcrowded prisons, where gangs, which effectively run many of them, recruited thousands of new members. The U.S. State Department, human rights groups, and journalists have raised concerns about these policies, denouncing prison conditions and police violence against civilians.

[Belsnickel]

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-02-2019, 06:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Why is violent crime the only thing you focus on when there are a large number of other possible contributing factors to the migration?

Because if you come to the US, you won't be allowed to enter just cause you have family here or because you're poor.

You have to apply for asylum, and many of the headlines about immigrants is that they are all just good people who are fleeing violent conditions from their home countries and want a chance at a better life.

But a better life can only be found in the US?? What about neighboring countries?

(04-02-2019, 07:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But that isn't, and hasn't, been the largest driver of illegal immigration. Economic reasons have really been the primary force for decades. I'm aware that doesn't allow for asylum claims, but asylum seekers don't make up the majority of illegal border crossings.

Economy? It's always a factor, but a relatively small one. You see people from 3rd world countries view all Americans as rich. Money grows on tress here and they want to come pick some and share with their families back home. To them, it's a fairytale dream. So no matter how little violence or corruption or the economic conditions back in their home country, US is still the desired goal. You make it here, you bigtime now.

(04-02-2019, 09:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No. My suggestion is that those in the caravans make up a small fraction of the illegal entries in this country.

Sure 10k here, 1k there, 20k there, 4k here. They don't seem like much, but they just keep adding up.



Did you know that the fastest way to get to the US legally and be able to stay indefinitely is to marry a USC? Why do you think their is so many International Dating Websites out there? Young women still teens chasing after any guy that pays attention to them. Old Fat Ugly doesn't matter to them. What matters to them is getting to the US, they'll deal with that other stuff later once they get a Green Card, then they are home free.

[*bfine32*]

(04-03-2019, 08:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote:

It's more amusement at hypocrisy than anything else. BTW, you didn't help Sunset out with his question. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2019, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's more amusement at hypocrisy than anything else. BTW, you didn't help Sunset out with his question. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-03-2019, 07:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:

I get it. Sad, but I get it. 

[*bfine32*]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-judge-issues-injunction-against-trump-asylum-policy-210157048.html

Quote:U.S. judge on Monday issued an injunction halting the Trump administration's policy of sending some asylum seekers back across the southern border to wait out their deportation cases in Mexico.

Give you one guess which Circuit this Judge is a member of. Hell I bet 99% can get the city correct.

[Belsnickel]

(04-08-2019, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-judge-issues-injunction-against-trump-asylum-policy-210157048.html


Give you one guess which Circuit this Judge is a member of. Hell I bet 99% can get the city correct.

9th Circuit in San Fran?

Ha! I actually did guess before clicking the link. I really hate courtroom shopping.

[*bfine32*]

(04-08-2019, 09:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: 9th Circuit in San Fran?

Ha! I actually did guess before clicking the link. I really hate courtroom shopping.

I often miss my days of ignorance when I thought Justice was Blind. 

[fredtoast]

(04-08-2019, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  99% can get the city.

(04-08-2019, 09:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: 9th Circuit in San Fran?

I got 99 problems but the 9th ain't one.

[GMDino]

Look Trump, in the most Trumpian way ever, summed it all up:  We're full.  Can't take any more people.

That's why he is ending ALL immigration!

Wait, I'm being told he's just closing the southern border...not ALL borders.

So now we're not sure what Trump meant by "full".



Full disclosure:  I think he meant the cages he keeps the immigrants and asylum seekers in are full rather than the entire US is full.  But he probably heard "full" at some point during a "quickie" briefing on the subject (that he didn't actually READ about) and worked into the word salad he spews whenever pressed to speak without a script.

And the right fawns over his brilliance.  It would be fun to watch if it weren't so stupid.

[GMDino]

DJT has a new immigration overhaul plan out.  (It's Jared's but Trump gotta get his name on stuff!)

Anyway...has anyone in his immediate circle noted that Melania wouldn't qualify to immigrate here and her parents couldn't have used chain-migration either under his new plan?

And Trump probably couldn't meet all the requirements?  (Speaking English, passing a civics test, have a highly desire skill)

I added it to THIS thread because it also does absolutely zero to address the "national emergency" that Trump hasn't talked about in weeks.

[jj22]

It'll be interesting to see if Dems use the video of Trump at the border claiming a National Emergency while tumble weed blows in the background with no "emergency" in sight.

The visuals was a bad look, and did nothing to persuade people something damaging to Americas security was taking place.

As pointed out in the coverage, the only people seen was with Trump and the media.

Some emergency.

Trump supporters can put down their guns and leave their house now. No need to still be scared the Mexicans are coming!

It's ok you guys. Everything is ok. We've survived.

[jj22]

Good news is

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/16/mark-morgan-eyes-ice-director-1449570

Quote:I can tell which migrant children will become gang members by looking into their eyes

So that should make you guys feel even more safer.

[GMDino]

(05-17-2019, 10:09 AM)jj22 Wrote: Good news is

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/16/mark-morgan-eyes-ice-director-1449570


So that should make you guys feel even more safer.

Well then we just have to have him look at every person who crosses the border!  Problem solved!