So what’s next?

[GMDino]

(06-05-2020, 11:20 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The one thing I'll hand to Trump is that hes a total wolf in wolf's clothing.  The guy told us exactly who he is and what he was going to do and it sounded like solid gold to enough people.

 

Still does.

People like bfine are still saying it's not his fault, or it's just as much Obama's fault. Anything to distract from the utter failure of this administration to really do anything correctly.

DJT is trumpeting a 13% unemployment rate and big stock market numbers as if he did anything to help either of those things other than say "eh, it will be ok." while congress did the hard work.  The same "man" who wouldn't relase the economic report a week ago is having a press conference right now to say what a great job hs is doing.

[*Nately120*]

Americans are just nuts. 16 years of watching Bush and Obama guffaw and drop bombs on people and suddenly what this country really NEEDS is to ditch the nice guys and elect one of the biggest assholes on the planet.

Nice priorities. I'm sure Jesus is hustling to come reward us all.

[Dill]

(06-05-2020, 09:18 AM)hollodero Wrote: I think hardly anyone blames Trump for police violence against blacks or for the rioting. Both are not his fault. The problem with Trump though is that he does nothing to calm the situation, and this is a failing in leadership that is not "just like Obama" really.

Obama or any reasonable POTUS really would not have teargassed protesters to clear the path to a photo opportunity. He would not have mused about sending the military to the states against those states' will. He would not have used a Wallace saying of when the looting starts the shooting starts. And then some. Trump is responsible for the escalatory (or at least distinctly not deescalatory) words and actions he chooses to handle this situation. And these deserve some critizism, or at least those that critisize them do not deserve to be compared to looters.

Well, he's responsible for a bit more than ignorant bluster after the fact.

Trump Killed Obama’s Police Reforms. Now He’s Getting What He Asked For.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/trumps-george-floyd-obama-protest-police-violence-kneeling.html

The last few years of the Obama administration were one of the most productive periods of criminal justice reform in American history. The Obama administration changed sentencing guidelines to reduce the disparity in the treatment of drug crimes that had disproportionately harmed black defendants. As part of an effort to inculcate a “guardian, not a warrior” mindset, it restricted the transfer of surplus military equipment to police departments. Most importantly, it formed consent decrees with more than a dozen police departments to force them to change their practices. . . .
[Trump] reversed them swiftly. ... Jeff Sessions, ended the restriction on transferring military equipment to police, reviewed all consent decrees struck by his predecessor, and then restricted their use going forward. “It is not the responsibility of the federal government to manage non-federal law enforcement agencies,” he insisted.

Minneapolis Police Union President Allegedly Wore a “White Power Patch” 
 and Made Racist Remarks https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapolis-police-union-president-kroll-george-floyd-racism/

“The Obama administration and the handcuffing and oppression of police was despicable,” [police union president] Kroll told CBS Minnesota after speaking at the president’s rally last year. “The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around…he decided to let cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.” Before the rally, Kroll’s union sold “Cops for Trump” T-shirts, which brought in close to $100,000, as a way to protest the mayor’s prohibition on officers wearing their uniform to political events.  . . . 

According to a [i]Star Tribune investigation, [Kroll] has been the subject of at least 20 internal-affairs complaints during his three decades there, though all but three were closed without discipline. As a young officer in 1994, he was suspended for five days for excessive force, according to a report by City Pages, but that decision was later reversed by the police chief. The next year, he fought a lawsuit that accused him of “beating, choking and kicking” a biracial 15-year-old boy while saying racial slurs, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported, but a federal jury cleared him of wrongdoing. In 2003, the department demoted him for three months for “code of ethics” violations.[/i]

(It certainly says something about the police culture in the Minn. dept. that someone like Kroll could be elected president of their union.)

PS Please don't show this post to Bfine. I have been keeping him in the dark about Trump's role in shaping police policy from the federal level down to local.

[GMDino]

Next?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/barr-defends-use-of-nonidentified-officers-in-dc-as-democrats-demand-answers-201723332.html

Quote:Barr defends use of non-identified officers in D.C. as Democrats demand answersBarr says there's a 'witches' brew' of extremist groups trying to disrupt protests


WASHINGTON — Attorney General William Barr on Thursday defended the deployment of black-clad federal law enforcement officers who wear neither badges nor any other visible identification in response to protests in Washington, D.C. 

Barr and Bureau of Prisons Director Michael Carvajal said at a Thursday press conference that the officers were from the Bureau of Prisons Special Operations Response Team (SORT). 

“We normally operate within the confines of our institution, and we don’t need to identify ourselves. Most of our identification is institution-specific and probably wouldn’t mean a whole lot to people in D.C.,” Carvajal said. 

“I probably should have done a better job of marking them nationally as the agency. Point is well taken. But I assure you that no one was specifically told in my knowledge not to identify themselves.”

On Thursday, Democratic Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Cory Booker, along with House Democratic Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries and Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, wrote to Barr about the “the use of federal security forces to oversee protests without specific agency identifiers or badge numbers.”

Krishnamoorthi is chairman of the House Oversight Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy.

“The presence of these unidentifiable officials raises concerns that peaceful protesters might not be able to identify them as legitimate law enforcement officers, that law enforcement officers might not be able to identify each other, or that it might allow for other civilians that are ‘self-appointed assistants to police’ to falsely identify themselves as legitimate law enforcement officials,” their letter reads.

Members of the Federal Bureau of Prisons and other law enforcement personnel block a street near the White House. (Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images)
The letter also asks “why they were instructed not to disclose what agency they were from.”

Barr defended the decision to deploy SORT teams on the streets of D.C., saying that they are among the federal units best trained to deal with civil unrest. SORT teams are highly trained units that typically focus on handling emergency situations and potential violence in prisons, including quelling riots, thwarting escapes and conducting cell extractions. They use a variety of equipment including nonlethal munitions and firearms.

“In the Department of Justice we do not really have large numbers of units that are trained to deal with civil disturbances,” Barr said. 

“Our Marshals response force is approximately 100 U.S. Marshals. And so, historically, when there have been emergencies where we have to respond with people who do have experience in these kinds of emergencies who are highly trained people, we use what are called SORT teams, response teams from the Bureau of Prisons.”
Barr did not apologize for the officers’ lack of recognizable marking or badges. 

“In the federal system we don’t wear badges with our name. Agents don’t wear badges with their names and stuff like that, which many ... non-federal police agencies do,” Barr said. “And I could understand why some of these individuals simply wouldn’t want to talk to people about who they were if that in fact was the case.”

The Democrats’ letter requests that the government “make the necessary alterations to the uniforms of [Justice Department] personnel deployed to crowd response to provide for their identification in the event of misconduct,” and asks for a response by June 10. 

The letter is the latest salvo from Democrats on Capitol Hill in their dispute with Barr over the use of force to combat protesters in the nation’s capital. Barr has become a lightning rod for criticism of the government’s handling of protests over the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis on May 25.

Democrats have called for a special prosecutor into Barr’s handling of law enforcement’s attack on protesters in Washington on Monday night. Democratic chairs of key committees in the House of Representatives have sent letters to the Secret Service seeking information about the events of that evening as well.

Police officers wearing riot gear push back demonstrators next to St. John's Episcopal Church near the White House on Monday. (Jose Luis Magana/AFP via Getty Images)
Barr took control of the federal government’s response that day, seeking to coordinate the patchwork of federal agencies operating on the streets of D.C. since the protests began. Monday’s move against protesters situated outside the White House came after three days of demonstrations that were accompanied by violence and looting in Washington and other cities. 

Barr said his priority on Monday was to protect nonviolent protesters while bringing the city under control. 
“If you use insufficient resources it’s dangerous for everybody,” he said Thursday. “Things could easily get out of control. ... The way to address it is to make sure the resources are there and people understand the resources are there to deal with that kind of violence.”

Barr defended his decision to order federal law enforcement officers to charge the protesters on Monday, saying it was necessary to extend the security perimeter around the White House and give law enforcement enough space to avoid injuries from thrown projectiles.

He said there were 115 injuries to law enforcement in D.C. this past weekend, including 22 hospitalizations. “Most of those were serious head injuries or concussions that required monitoring and treatment,” he said.
There have been reports of protesters throwing projectiles at officers before police charged the crowd on Monday, but most accounts from the scene indicated that the majority of people in the crowd were protesting peacefully.

Barr and the White House have said the protesters were given three warnings on Monday night. Those in the crowd said they heard no such warnings. In addition, law enforcement personnel is seen in multiple video accounts punching or shoving protesters and members of the press who did not appear to be doing anything provocative.

There have been conflicting reports about whether Barr’s decision to extend the security perimeter was to create space for the president to make the short, one-block walk from the White House to St. John’s Church. The church, which was built in 1816 and has hosted every president since then, was damaged by protesters last weekend. 

Protesters in Washington, D.C., were penned in by police before being cleared out so President Trump could walk through for a photo opportunity in front of St. John's Episcopal Church. (Ken Cedeno/Reuters)
Trump arrived at the church Monday for a much-criticized photo op in which he held up a Bible. Justice Department officials have said that the decision to extend the perimeter was made Sunday night or Monday morning, and when Barr arrived on the scene late Monday afternoon he was surprised it had not been done yet. He then ordered law enforcement to quickly extend the perimeter. 

Law enforcement personnel charged into the crowd of protesters between the White House and St. John’s less roughly 20 minutes before Trump walked to the church. The law enforcement units deployed tear gas to disperse the demonstrators. 

There were also military helicopters that hovered low to the ground over protesters to intimidate and disperse them on Monday night. That too has drawn questions about whether it was a legal and appropriate use of federal power, and both the commander of the D.C. National Guard and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper have said investigations will be launched into the matter. 

Barr said the overwhelming show of force on Monday was responsible for calming the situation and preventing additional violence in the city. 

“I think once that occurred it provided an environment where things could quiet down, and they did quiet down and hopefully they will stay quieted down,” Barr said.

[Belsnickel]

(06-04-2020, 10:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What needs to happen is for folks to stop politicizing the issue. I see in this thread folks saying the issue is the POTUS. These folks are just like the looters: They give 2 shits about the issue, they just want to profit from it.Who was POTUS during:

Eric Gardner

Michael Brown

Freddie Gray

Ask yourself: What got more coverage:

Folks actually burning St John's church or Trump walking to it.

Protesters at the gates of the White House or Trump going to the bunker

We look to divide as a society regardless who's in charge.

The way ahead should be unification, not division.

It's no more Trump's fault than it was Obama's.

In short What needs to happen:

We need to blame the person responsible for the action

Yeah, there are many things that I will say "both sides do it" about, this is definitely not one of them. If you are incapable of seeing how much Trump has shit the bed in this situation then you are just being blindly partisan. I have agreed many times with people shitting on Trump for no reason, but what he has done in the wake o the George Floyd situation is definitely not an overreaction by people. It is not one of those times.

(06-04-2020, 10:30 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I take back my words from earlier. BLM is no longer about Black Lives, its about BS.

Look, they rioted because they wanted the cop arrested. He was arrested and then they rioted because they wanted tougher charges and all four cops arrested. Tougher charges came and all four arrested. Nothing stopped.

Oh, the SCOTUS ruled that states can close churches to protect the populous. I guess that means peaceful protestors can be arrested too.

I was going to write in the Constitutionalist candidate this November but now I'm voting for Trump...This is BS.

You can't move the goalpost and expect to constantly be catered to.

There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin. The BLM movement condemns violence and the looting. People that are not a part of that movement are taking advantage of the peaceful protests and using it as cover for their actions. If you want to listen to the corporate media's narrative and fall in line with the rest, just know you're doing so based on a lie.

[Dill]

(06-05-2020, 01:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin. The BLM movement condemns violence and the looting. People that are not a part of that movement are taking advantage of the peaceful protests and using it as cover for their actions. If you want to listen to the corporate media's narrative and fall in line with the rest, just know you're doing so based on a lie.

He is not spouting some general "corporate media narrative."  

The MSM or "media mob" as Hannity calls it has done a pretty good job of sorting out protestors from rioters and looters. That's one reason why you know that the BLM movement condemns violence and looting.

Neb's info comes from a much narrower bandwidth of "corporate news," on the far right side of the dial.

[Dill]

(06-05-2020, 01:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Next?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/barr-defends-use-of-nonidentified-officers-in-dc-as-democrats-demand-answers-201723332.html

Barr said his priority on Monday was to protect nonviolent protesters while bringing the city under control.

And the first group harmed were non-violent protestors.  

[GMDino]

What's next?

Exclusive: @janawinter has obtained government documents that reveal the number and makeup of federal agents assigned to protect the White House. A 1300-strong force has been deployed to the South side of the WH that includes ICE, TSA, and Coast Guard. https://t.co/dsX9SJwrYp

— Daniel Klaidman (@dklaidman) June 5, 2020

 

How about the "war time" president hides behind everyone while still talking tough?

[hollodero]

(06-05-2020, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, he's responsible for a bit more than ignorant bluster after the fact.

I suppose those are fair points. Its just, when it comes to policy some might just answer with alleged or actual policy mistakes Obama made, or whoever (and it's not fun for me to be accused to conveniently conceal something Obama did in the year godknowswhat). So I tend to go with things that are 100% unique Trump and not transferrable to other presidents. Like teargassing protesters to take a picture with an awkwardly held bible. Obama would never ever have done that :)

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2020, 12:44 AM)Benton Wrote: No more trump's? Wtf man? I get not liking him, I wasn't fond of the majority of things he did, but Obama didn't actively try to paint the problem as all 'the other guy,' didn't daily ridicule opponents or groups of people, didn't daily lie to constituents about issues.

And that's why there won't be any meeting in the middle. Obama and some other Dems have tried, but guys like McConnell and trump don't want to unify, they want to occupy. They aren't going to meet in the middle, they'll just wait till they get what they want.

For real? What was his descriptive of Travon Martin?

It's no more Trump's fault than it was Obama's. But folks have an agenda 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2020, 09:18 AM)hollodero Wrote: I think hardly anyone blames Trump for police violence against blacks or for the rioting. Both are not his fault. The problem with Trump though is that he does nothing to calm the situation, and this is a failing in leadership that is not "just like Obama" really.

Obama or any reasonable POTUS really would not have teargassed protesters to clear the path to a photo opportunity. He would not have mused about sending the military to the states against those states' will. He would not have used a Wallace saying of when the looting starts the shooting starts. And then some. Trump is responsible for the escalatory (or at least distinctly not deescalatory) words and actions he chooses to handle this situation. And these deserve some critizism, or at least those that critisize them do not deserve to be compared to looters.

Are we reading the same thread? 

As to the rest: he's tried plenty to calm the situation.

He called the murder of Floyd horrific

He told peaceful protesters they have an allies in him

He directed his DOJ to conduct a full investigation

 

[hollodero]

(06-05-2020, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are we reading the same thread? 

As to the rest: he's tried plenty to calm the situation.

He called the murder of Floyd horrific

He told peaceful protesters they have an allies in him

He directed his DOJ to conduct a full investigation

Peaceful protesters don't believe him. I for one don't blame them. Lip service loses its value as soon as a president starts to teargas peaceful protesters, threatens the force of military upon states or talks about giving a firing order. Also, I guess what Dill mentioned about his actual policies. The things you mentioned, I believe you that he did say those things, somewhere hidden between touting his own horn or blaming governors or playing tough or twitter-tirading against god knows what.

Of course I know you dismiss this as me not being able to be objective or think straight because of my agenda. Since that is so, I might as well add that Biden and his comments demonstrated way more ability to calm a situation down as Trump has. That would be my threshold for "done plenty".

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2020, 10:13 PM)hollodero Wrote: Peaceful protesters don't believe him. I for one don't blame them. Lip service loses its value as soon as a president starts to teargas peaceful protesters, threatens the force of military upon states or talks about giving a firing order. Also, I guess what Dill mentioned about his actual policies. The things you mentioned, I believe you that he did say those things, somewhere hidden between touting his own horn or blaming governors or playing tough or twitter-tirading against god knows what.

Of course I know you dismiss this as me not being able to be objective or think straight because of my agenda. Since that is so, I might as well add that Biden and his comments demonstrated way more ability to calm a situation down as Trump has. That would be my threshold for "done plenty".

Of course you said he's "does nothing" so you still want to stand by that or go with "hasn't done enough to make me satisfied"? 

[Benton]

(06-05-2020, 09:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: For real? What was his descriptive of Travon Martin?

It's no more Trump's fault than it was Obama's. But folks have an agenda 

Yeah.

Quote:First of all, I want to make sure that, once again, I send my thoughts and prayers, as well as Michelle’s, to the family of Trayvon Martin, and to remark on the incredible grace and dignity with which they’ve dealt with the entire situation.  I can only imagine what they’re going through, and it’s remarkable how they’ve handled it.


The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there’s going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case -- I'll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues.  The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner.  The prosecution and the defense made their arguments.  The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict.  And once the jury has spoken, that's how our system works.  But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling. 

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son.  Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.  And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.  That includes me.  

Followed by reaching out and meeting with community leaders on both sides.

Versus:

Quote:“Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race, color gender or creed,” Trump said. “They have to receive fair treatment from law enforcement. They have to receive it. We all saw what happened last week. We can’t let that happen.”

Right after he used the military and police to beat down peaceful protesters prior to the curfew because he had to get his photo of holding up a Bible.


I agree folks have an agenda. Yours is clear. Trumps, his actions don't meet his words when he's coherent enough to spread vitriol and division. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2020, 10:57 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah.



Followed by reaching out and meeting with community leaders on both sides.

Versus:


Right after he used the military and police to beat down peaceful protesters prior to the curfew because he had to get his photo of holding up a Bible.


I agree folks have an agenda. Yours is clear. Trumps, his actions don't meet his words when he's coherent enough to spread vitriol and division. 

Not even a little bit of that explains the stance of getting rid of Trump will fix it. With all those cool Obama words you quoted he still didn't fix it. I get folks don't like Trump but let's try to look at it rationally 

[GMDino]

(06-05-2020, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are we reading the same thread? 

As to the rest: he's tried plenty to calm the situation.

He called the murder of Floyd horrific

He told peaceful protesters they have an allies in him

He directed his DOJ to conduct a full investigation

 

The president just retweeted a post attacking the character of George Floyd pic.twitter.com/Bj0Xuly1jk

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 6, 2020

 

[SunsetBengal]

(06-03-2020, 12:50 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: So my questions are....

Regardless of what side you are on what’s next?  

If you could decide what comes of what we are seeing currently what would it be?  

Lastly, do you think anything will change?  If yes, for the better or for the worse?

What's next from what?

After a while, things will go back to pretty much the same.

Small changes will happen.  The bigger changes will need to happen among individuals.

[*Nately120*]

(06-05-2020, 11:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The bigger changes will need to happen among individuals.

Does change for the worse count?

[BengalHawk62]

When we talk about voter suppression, this is what we mean. Having more people vote should not be a partisan issue. If your party can't win elections on policy and has to resort to gerrymandering and voter suppression to win seats, then maybe you should change your policies to better match the larger public interest. Here is what your Iowa senate is up to:

Iowa HF2486

Banning the Secretary of State from sending out Absentee Ballot Requests –

Republican Roby Smith has decided to take a bill relating to the design and use of county seals and turn it into a tool to suppress voting. For the 2020 primary Iowa’s Secretary of State, Paul Pate, mailed out absentee ballot requests to Iowans and we had the largest number of primary voters in the history of Iowa. The current change doesn’t allow the Secretary of State to mail Absentee Ballot Requests and restricts elected county auditors when they are trying to fill in missing information when they receive forms. This is a form of voter suppression and let your legislators know this is bad for voters.

https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislators/find

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2020, 12:04 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Does change for the worse count?

Kinna ‘pends on the preacha’