So what’s next?

[hollodero]

(06-06-2020, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  No amount of being mad at Trump changes my original assertion in this thread. The way ahead should be to hold those responsible accountable, not to create red herrings to fulfill a political stance. This crime and the aftermath are no more Trump's fault than those that occurred during Obama were his fault. Folks just see an opportunity to fulfill a political agenda. They're no better than the looters; using a tragedy for personal gain. 

This is so offensive. To compare Trump critics to looters.

Actually, most of your posts are just that. Looking down at petty Trump critics, that are small-minded, incapable of objectivity, agenda-driven...

...for heaven's sake, that Trump guy invoked Floyd's name to celebrate "his" job numbers. People in Austria, including those that usually do not follow much, can not quite believe this incredible tastelessness. This is not a red herring. Nor are all the other things that we all mentioned plenty as of now. But his critics should be ashamed? ASHAMED? For critizising a tone-deaf, hapless, lie-infested, power-tripping, egocentrical presidential response that disgusts folks around the world?

Please, get down from this trip, your posts are getting unreadable in all their smugness and in all their willful ignorance. I usually do my best to understand and try to follow, but this is simply getting too far.
If president Hillary had said "This is a great day for Goeorge Floyd, I have accomplished a good job report today", you would call her and every liberal out on it constantly and slam everyone that was not equally appalled. How would I know? For exampe because you still bring up "hot sauce" after 4+ years. So don't tell me you have the "apolitical" stance here in the first place.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 12:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll say it again: Trump is no more responsible for what happened to George Floyd than Obama was for Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, and others. Folks making it political are not worried about discovering a truth. 

We are not talking about what happened to Floyd and thoise others.  We are talking about the protests afterwards.  Trumps antagonistic stance tward peaceful proptestors have made things MUCH worse.

He called the peaceful protestors in front of thre church "terrorists".  Language like that justifies violence against them, not just by himself, but by every white supremacist and redneck racists out there.  I mean, EVERYONE agrees it is okay to use violence agaisnt terrorists, right?

He also blamed all the violence of "left wing extremists" when there is plenty of evidence that there were just as many, if not more right wing extremists involved.  Again, this justifies violenec against the left but not the right.


It is pretty clear which people don't care about the truth.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 01:03 PM)hollodero Wrote: This is so offensive. To compare Trump critics to looters.

Actually, most of your posts are just that. Looking down at petty Trump critics, that are small-minded, incapable of objectivity, agenda-driven...

...for heaven's sake, that Trump guy invoked Floyd's name to celebrate "his" job numbers. People in Austria, including those that usually do not follow much, can not quite believe this incredible tastelessness. This is not a red herring. Nor are all the other things that we all mentioned plenty as of now. But his critics should be ashamed? ASHAMED? For critizising a tone-deaf, hapless, lie-infested, power-tripping, egocentrical presidential response that disgusts folks around the world?

Please, get down from this trip, your posts are getting unreadable in all their smugness and in all their willful ignorance. I usually do my best to understand and try to follow, but this is simply getting too far.
If president Hillary had said "This is a great day for Goeorge Floyd, I have accomplished a good job report today", you would call her and every liberal out on it constantly and slam everyone that was not equally appalled. How would I know? For exampe because you still bring up "hot sauce" after 4+ years. So don't tell me you have the "apolitical" stance here in the first place.

Folks can be offended all they want; however,  none of that explains why removing Trump from office would be a positive step toward rebuilding relationships between police and minorities. I've seen folks try; I've seen them assert Trump only criticizes the black looters because he called then thugs. 

I clearly said earlier in this thread that anyone who uses the George Floyd matter for their political gain should be ashamed of themselves. I'm just in the minority when I say ANYONE. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We are not talking about what happened to Floyd and thoise others.  We are talking about the protests afterwards.  Trumps antagonistic stance tward peaceful proptestors have made things MUCH worse.

He called the peaceful protestors in front of thre church "terrorists".  Language like that justifies violence against them, not just by himself, but by every white supremacist and redneck racists out there.  I mean, EVERYONE agrees it is okay to use violence agaisnt terrorists, right?

He also blamed all the violence of "left wing extremists" when there is plenty of evidence that there were just as many, if not more right wing extremists involved.  Again, this justifies violenec against the left but not the right.


It is pretty clear which people don't care about the truth.

Trump has taken no stance against peaceful protesters other than telling them they have an allies. I'm pretty sure he's not the only one condemning the violent protests. But folks will try to twist the message to divert from the truth and the truth is: It's not Trump's fault!!!! like COVID 19 is. 

I just as easily say folks like you are diverting attention away from the violent protests to point to the fact that it really doesn't matter if you are violent or not and THAT makes it MUCH worse. 

You still didn't answer what the police and secret service should do if folks refuse to clear an area that will soon be occupied by POTUS. 

[*bfine32*]

I'll leave this here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-reporters-falsely-accuse-trump-181407447.html

Quote:A number of prominent political reporters misrepresented comments President Trump made about George Floyd during his Friday press statement, falsely claiming that the president suggested Floyd would be happy with the May job numbers that had been released hours earlier.

Trump spoke at length about the release of May’s unexpectedly positive job numbers, which showed 2.5 million jobs added and a dip in the unemployment rate, calling it “probably . . . the greatest comeback in American history.” He then pivoted to a discussion of the importance of equality in policing, and it was in this context that he mentioned Floyd, an African American man whose death at the hands of Minneapolis police last week set off a wave of riots across the country.

“Equal justice under the law must mean that every American receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement regardless of race, color, gender or creed. They have to receive fair treatment from law enforcement,” Trump said. “We can’t let that happen. Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, ‘this is a great thing that’s happening for our country.’ This is a great day for him, it’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody, this is a great, great day in terms of equality.”

Someone should be ashamed.

[hollodero]

(06-06-2020, 01:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks can be offended all they want;

Yeah I am offended if you compare me to a looter or call me agenda-driven and incapable of any objectivity or tell me to be ashamed. Although "saddened and aghast" is a better summation of my actual feelings.

(06-06-2020, 01:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: however,  none of that explains why removing Trump from office would be a positive step toward rebuilding relationships between police and minorities.

Yeah I consider it a positive step if your president would not invoke the victim's memory to tout his job numbers. Really. I think that would do good for rebuilding all kinds of relationships. Of course, also not teargassing peaceful protesters and all that other shit that was already mentioned.

(06-06-2020, 01:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've seen folks try; I've seen them assert Trump only criticizes the black looters because he called then thugs. 

That is not at all a representative summation of what folks had to say. How do you say 10.000 times a day? Stop making shit up.

(06-06-2020, 01:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I clearly said earlier in this thread that anyone who uses the George Floyd matter for their political gain should be ashamed of themselves. I'm just in the minority when I say ANYONE. 

You can not declare critizising Trump as "using the tradegy for political gain". You just can not. That violates all rules of logic.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 02:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I am offended if you compare me to a looter or call me agenda-driven and incapable of any objectivity or tell me to be ashamed. Although "saddened and aghast" is a better summation of my actual feelings.

If you fit my descriptive then I'm comparing you to someone who looks to gain from the case. You can be saddened and aghast but you can also be taking advantage of iy

Quote:Yeah I consider it a positive step if your president would not invoke the victim's memory to tout his job numbers. Really. I think that would do good for rebuilding all kinds of relationships. Of course, also not teargassing peaceful protesters and all that other shit that was already mentioned.

Did you not see my earlier post on this matter? Pretty much proves my whole arguement

Quote:That is not at all a representative summation of what folks had to say. How do you say 10.000 times a day? Stop making shit up.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bad-Boys-II?page=29

Start at about post 563 and tell me what shit I made up. 

Quote:You can not declare critizising Trump as "using the tradegy for political gain". You just can not. That violates all rules of logic.

[/quote]
What violates logic is trying to turn this and everything else into IT'S TRUMP's FAULT!!

[Dill]

(06-06-2020, 10:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I get that the liberal will use every bad issue as a launching point to discredit Trump and remove him from the White House. In my original post on the matter I asked folks to consider what got more attention: The church getting burned or POTUS walking to it. I think we've clearly answered that now it's up to us to determine what the true issue is. 

Excuse me?!?  The MANY "bad issues" created by Trump are of course a launching point to "discredit Trump"; they SHOULD be--just as shooting into unarmed crowds and forced quartering of troops in civilian homes and "dominating the streets" were bad issues that Colonial "liberals" used to discredit George III back in 1775.

Your "original post", with its list of black victims and mention of Obama, raised many more issues than the church basement fire.

I am still amazed and flabbergasted at your continual disconnect of Trump's responsibility for the criticism heaped upon him from all quarters but the Alt-Right, 6 Fox commentators, and police unions. How many ex-military generals, admirals and other "liberals" have now spoken out against his mis-use of the US military against US civilians?  Successful trolling if that was your aim. 

Most on this message board already understand why the POTUS' misuse of the military against peaceful citizens is "the true issue"-- not a fire in a church basement. Even the Archbishop of that diocese immediately grasped that.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You still didn't answer what the police and secret service should do if folks refuse to clear an area that will soon be occupied by POTUS. 

Yes I did.

(06-06-2020, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, if the President is a friend and supporter of the protestors you don't do anything.  Instead the President would alter his plans or speak to the crowd himself to get them to disperse.  What do you think it means to be a "friend and supporter" of a group?  Does it mean you address them and try to work WITH them or deos it mean you tear gass them and shoot them with rubber bullets?

And you can't just ignore the fact that the protestors were attacked just because the Presdent wanted a photo op.  That makes the whole story even more disgusting.  He wasn't going to a church to pray or worship.  He was just usuing the church as a tool for political propaganda.  Does that justify attacking non-violent protestors?

But speaking of not answering questions.  I notice there are a couple in my post that you ignored.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What violates logic is trying to turn this and everything else into IT'S TRUMP's FAULT!!

What violates logic is claiming that when Trump messes up we are not allowed to criticize him.

Trump just labelled peaceful non-violent protastors as "fake" and "terrorists".  Labelling them "terrorists" justifies anyone using violence against them.  

How can you say Trump does not share any blame for the violence against peaceful protestors when he justifies violence against them by calling them terrorists?

[hollodero]

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you fit my descriptive then I'm comparing you to someone who looks to gain from the case. You can be saddened and aghast but you can also be taking advantage of iy

Well, everyone that has anything bad to say against Trump does fit your descriptive. With one exception you deem ok (that the photo op was petty). These are your rules on that matter (and they do have a nice concession in them). Anyone that has additional bad things to say about Trump? Into the shame box!

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did you not see my earlier post on this matter? Pretty much proves my whole arguement

Which one? You're kind of all over the place.

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bad-Boys-II?page=29

Start at about post 563 and tell me what shit I made up. 

You have seen ONE debate, one not even taking place in this thread, and used it to portray the jist of every Trump critizism offered. This is a classic example of "making shit up". Being unsensical.

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What violates logic is trying to turn this and everything else into IT'S TRUMP's FAULT!!

I don't even know how to respond to that. This is such a gross misrepresentation of what's happening. "making this and everything else into Trump's fault"... where do you find this stuff, in Hannity's "too asinine even for me" trash can?

It of course hurts to even have to expand on this, but some things are not Trump's fault, eg. he did not kill a black man himself, nor did police brutality start with him (also no one says it did), but that does in no way mean that nothing is Trump's fault. He does plenty wrong. It is abhorrent how you respond with "feel ashamed" or "you behave like looters" when folks talk about the things Trump does wrong. You can disagree if you really feel like it, but reacting like this? This is not feasible for a reasonable person. Which is why I urgently suggest to stop it.

[BoomerFan]

I know very little for certain but I suspect there are some reforms that can be implemented to improve things, and I hope they will. That said, there will be future tragedies due to negligence -- that is just the nature of having a police force. We can't make the world perfect, but we can try to improve it.

[hollodero]

(06-06-2020, 01:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll leave this here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-reporters-falsely-accuse-trump-181407447.html

I hate to admit it amongst all this, but that is a fair point.

[Dill]

(06-06-2020, 01:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll leave this here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-reporters-falsely-accuse-trump-181407447.html

Someone should be ashamed.

Looks like Baker and Collins should be. 

But however could this incident of misrepresentation create the kind of leverage you want to overturn or dismiss the accurate daily reports of what Trump actually says and does which are deserving of condemnation--as if slanted journalism really were the deciding factor in the public perception of Trump's incompetence on issues ranging from Stormy Daniels to Ukraine to Syria to the Coronavirus to police power.

Like that proves this whole media show about Trump's unfitness for office is just partisan. Like he is really not the president most ignorant of government and history we have ever had, not to mention the most vulgar, with worst record of shady and incompetent business dealings and associates both in and out of office. As if the liberal press just made up the court records from Florida and New York. As if character should be part of the job description.

I don't recall you ever weighing in directly to defend Trump's right to pay off prostitutes under cover of his presidential campaign or his decision to expose Kurdish allies to harm or his recommendation the doctors look into a bleach cure for COV-19.

What you do, rather, is find some phrase or word or action you think comparable to similar from Obama/Hillary/Biden, and then work up a charge of "liberal hypocrisy."  Obama said "thugs" too, right?-- when he was denouncing how rioters deflected public attention from the issue of justice. And the reporters did not get wound up over that like they did when Trump's "thugs" moved his attention away from justice to "dominating the streets"--with the US military no less.  That's how "liberal bias" works. Fortunately for the country.

Same for the hugely important (you think) bias "reveal" in noting more space has been devoted to Trump's misuse of military force--which prompted otherwise silent generals Mattis and Kelly and an archbishop to speak out--than in a basement fire. LOL because Trump?

Obama/Hillary/Biden agreed that what happened at Benghazi was "horrific," didn't they? But that never cancelled your critique of Fox Hillary the way Trump's "cool words" seem to cancel his national mismanagement of the current civil rights crisis for you.

[samhain]

(06-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you fit my descriptive then I'm comparing you to someone who looks to gain from the case. You can be saddened and aghast but you can also be taking advantage of iy


Did you not see my earlier post on this matter? Pretty much proves my whole arguement






http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bad-Boys-II?page=29

Start at about post 563 and tell me what shit I made up. 

What violates logic is trying to turn this and everything else into IT'S TRUMP's FAULT!!
[/quote]

Again, your framing of political narratives is both disingenuous and willfully, um, unrealistic.  Which candidate from which party exactly isn't going to attempt to paint the opposition as inadequate/inept when things that happen under their administration are less than favorable?  None exist as far as I know.  Trump was all over Obama for the Ferguson protests and his handling of Ebola.  Are we just supposed to sit here and play patty-cake with him while he gasses protesters and the cities burn on his watch?  Do you think that the Steelers should get to use seven offensive linemen while the Bengals use four? 

Trump deserves all he gets.  He lives by the art of harsh criticism and wild accusations.  It sucks if people have to make shit up to drag him, but he's invited it and continues to.  

I also find it interesting that you elected to defend a US general that was an unregistered foreign agent operating against our country's interests in the Flynn thread, yet you don't seem to hold other, non-sketchy generals like Kelly and Mattis in the same regard as they are making similar criticisms that we are here.  They were in his administration for Christ's sake.  Not liberals.  Not never Trumpers.  Actual holders of major cabinet positions in Trump's administration are hanging responsibility for his rhetoric and stupidity on Trump.  I guess service is only worthy of respect when it falls in line with a certain narrative.  

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 02:49 PM)hollodero Wrote: 1. Well, everyone that has anything bad to say against Trump does fit your descriptive. With one exception you deem ok (that the photo op was petty). These are your rules on that matter (and they do have a nice concession in them). Anyone that has additional bad things to say about Trump? Into the shame box!



2. Which one? You're kind of all over the place.



3. You have seen ONE debate, one not even taking place in this thread, and used it to portray the jist of every Trump critizism offered. This is a classic example of "making shit up". Being unsensical.



4. I don't even know how to respond to that. This is such a gross misrepresentation of what's happening. "making this and everything else into Trump's fault"... where do you find this stuff, in Hannity's "too asinine even for me" trash can?

5.It of course hurts to even have to expand on this, but some things are not Trump's fault, eg. he did not kill a black man himself, nor did police brutality start with him (also no one says it did), but that does in no way mean that nothing is Trump's fault. He does plenty wrong. It is abhorrent how you respond with "feel ashamed" or "you behave like looters" when folks talk about the things Trump does wrong. You can disagree if you really feel like it, but reacting like this? This is not feasible for a reasonable person. Which is why I urgently suggest to stop it.

1. Nah, I'm just talking about those that assert a way ahead is to replace Trump; instead of focusing on the issue. I've said Trump's walk deseved condemnation so I've said something bad about Trump

2. https://www.yahoo.com/news/mainstream-reporters-falsely-accuse-trump-181407447.html

3. I provided you with a clear example of what you considered me "making shit up". Now you're free to move the goalpost and say "well that's not good enough, but I think we can both clearly see I made nothing up.

4. Without counting do you want to bet Trump's name shows up more than the killer's in this thread.

5. I've never said nothing is Trump's fault. I've said he's no more to blame than Obama. What was that you were saying about making shit up

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 02:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes I did.





But speaking of not answering questions.  I notice there are a couple in my post that you ignored.

No you didn't you answered it with an "if". What do you suggest police and secret service do to protesters who fail to leave an area that POTUS is schedule to occupy? You cannot answer: "If he has a magic Carpet he could fly over them". 

[Dill]

(06-06-2020, 03:28 PM)samhain Wrote: What violates logic is trying to turn this and everything else into IT'S TRUMP's FAULT!!

Trump was all over Obama for the Ferguson protests and his handling of Ebola.  Are we just supposed to sit here and play patty-cake with him while he gasses protesters and the cities burn on his watch?

Yes, and while Obama was actually handling these crises pretty well.

(06-06-2020, 03:28 PM)samhain Wrote: Do you think that the Steelers should get to use seven offensive linemen while the Bengals use four?

I don't really see a problem here.  An extra 1st round draft pick every year for the Steelers would be ok too.

(06-06-2020, 03:28 PM)samhain Wrote: I also find it interesting that you elected to defend a US general that was an unregistered foreign agent operating against our country's interests in the Flynn thread, yet you don't seem to hold other, non-sketchy generals like Kelly and Mattis in the same regard as they are making similar criticisms that we are here.  They were in his administration for Christ's sake.  Not liberals.  Not never Trumpers.  Actual holders of major cabinet positions in Trump's administration are hanging responsibility for his rhetoric and stupidity on Trump.  I guess service is only worthy of respect when it falls in line with a certain narrative. 

Good dissection of slanted perspective here. Trump/Obama comparisons follow a similar pattern of freely giving credibility to former's words while denying them the latter's--regardless of their author's behavior.

As for the Constitution-based criticism of Trump's public actions by former generals Trump selected for his own cabinet--that's pretty much cancelled by two Times reporters who slanted a Trump speech anyone could read or hear for himself.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2020, 03:20 PM)Dill Wrote: Looks like Baker and Collins should be. 

But however could this incident of misrepresentation create the kind of leverage you want to overturn or dismiss the accurate daily reports of what Trump actually says and does which are deserving of condemnation
What you do, rather, is find some phrase or word or action you think comparable to similar from Obama/Hillary/Biden, and then work up a charge of "liberal hypocrisy."  

I didn't bring the jobs quote up Dino and Hollo did. I merely used it to illustrate my point of blaming Trump. He actually said very kind words about Floyd. 
I get not saying: "it's Trump's fault!!!" is going to be met with opposition around here, but it just kinda proves my point. WTS/ I'm done with the subject. I don't expect you or anyone to say "You know what? What is happening really isn't Trump's fault; we should look elsewhere for our answers". And I am not going to say "Race relations will get better without Trump". I was around during Obama and race relations sucked. It was a time of Dylann Roof and guess what: Obama was not to blame.

[BrownAssClown]

149 Days, 9 Hours, 41 minutes.