So you think Trump won't be elected again in 2024. Wanna bet?

[*Nately120*]

(08-22-2022, 09:33 AM)ATOTR Wrote: Those other vaccines I mentioned work.  Covid vaccine doesn’t.  

You should read up.  

I’ll move on. It’s a labored topic anyway.

Back to my point before your derailed.  Parent having their young children get an experimental Covid vaccine, kids who had 0 risk- was negligent and abusive.

I didn't derail so much as I pointed out that a lot of people feel the same way about every vaccine that you feel about the covid one. 

Wait, why are we taking about the covid vaccine in this thread? Trump said to get it and he he got booed for it so maybe that's just further evidence he's going to be out of support soon.

[GMDino]

(08-21-2022, 10:31 PM)ATOTR Wrote: Could you imagine how bad/negligent you would feel if you got your under 12 year old kid/kids vaccinated, just because the government tried to sell you that it was your ‘civic duty’ to help out and get them vaccinated

Polio and Measles approve this message.

[HarleyDog]

(08-22-2022, 09:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: A lot of people would say you're falling for the hype and pressure on other vaccines.   

Have we really determined a covid shot is a vaccine since it doesn't stop a person from getting infected or transmitting the virus? 

[Belsnickel]

(08-22-2022, 10:55 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Have we really determined a covid shot is a vaccine since it doesn't stop a person from getting infected or transmitting the virus? 

Except it can. It is effective at those things, but it doesn't have the efficiency other vaccines have because one, it was done in such a short timeframe, and two, the virus is evolving in a way others we have vaccines for don't (other than the flu).

[HarleyDog]

(08-22-2022, 10:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Except it can. It is effective at those things, but it doesn't have the efficiency other vaccines have because one, it was done in such a short timeframe, and two, the virus is evolving in a way others we have vaccines for don't (other than the flu).

It resembles the flu more than anything. 

[HarleyDog]

(08-21-2022, 07:09 PM)pally Wrote: Not even close, Nancy didn't spend months constantly agitating, lying, whining, urging confrontation/fights to her supporters like Trump did

(08-21-2022, 07:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Pelosi went there in February of 2020.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/



And she was wrong.  The virus was much worse than *we* knew and already here and spreading.

However she was also making an attempt to make people not blame Asians for the virus:

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/22420



*That* she was right about.  Of course it wasn't too much later that DJT started the "China Virus" bit.

Trump said the virus would "go away" multiple times over the course of the year.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/10/politics/covid-disappearing-trump-comment-tracker/

It starts February 10th...three days after he told Bob Woodward that it was "Deadly stuff".

So if you want to talk "double standards" at least acknowledge that Pelosi stopped saying wrong things when she got new information and didn't continue to lie to people simply so she could get re-elected.

Ok, so when Pelosi screws up, the virus was new but doesn't apply to Trump as being new? How about she stopped talking about it because she, just like the rest of us including Trump, didn't have a clue what to expect next.  The left in general ignored the warnings of the virus because of the administration giving out the warnings. They were anti-anything with the Trump administration and it bit her in the ass. But keep making excuses for her. Next, you'll have some excuse for when she did get on board and supported quarantine, she went to see her hairdresser.


Hate is blind.

[Dill]

(08-22-2022, 11:24 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Ok, so when Pelosi screws up, the virus was new but doesn't apply to Trump as being new? How about she stopped talking about it because she, just like the rest of us including Trump, didn't have a clue what to expect next.  The left in general ignored the warnings of the virus because of the administration giving out the warnings. They were anti-anything with the Trump administration and it bit her in the ass. But keep making excuses for her. Next, you'll have some excuse for when she did get on board and supported quarantine, she went to see her hairdresser.


Hate is blind.

Who are "the Left"?

Can you name at least some of those who "ignored the warnings"? 

Also I'm hoping you'll grant that the bulk of American's who refused vaccination were following Trump/Fox/Right Wing messaging. And those unvaccinated keep the virus threat alive.

You wouldn't disagree with that, right? 

[Dill]

(08-22-2022, 10:55 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Have we really determined a covid shot is a vaccine since it doesn't stop a person from getting infected or transmitting the virus? 

You are speaking as if vaccination made no difference at all, like a sugar pill.

It doesn't stop a person from contracting it 100% only because A FEW still get it, though MOST vaccinated do not.

And those vaccinated who do get it tend to suffer much milder symptoms than unvaccinated, right?

My wife went to the emergency room of our local hospital a few weeks back and had to wait over 18 hours to get a hospital bed,
because we are still suffering bed shortages here in Indiana (pa).

Her doctor wanted to move her to a hospital in Monroeville, but that also had no beds, and she had to wait for 5 days in our 
hospital for a bed there. They finally let her go home instead of transferring her. 

According to all the hospital personnel I have talked to, including the administrator of our local hospital, these space problems are
still a consequence of COVID and well over 90% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated. 

How can we still be arguing that the vaccine is not effective, or that the anti-vaccine position is not an effect of Trumpism and its attendant conspiracy theories and distrust of government and science? "You can STILL get it" is just not a serious argument, if the vaccine means far fewer get it, and those who do generally do not end up in critical care, while those who don't get it fill up our intensive care units across the nation.

[Dill]

(08-21-2022, 02:49 PM)BengalB Wrote: If you don't miss President Trump you're either a raging leftist with purple streaks in your hair, or you're into geriatric tyrants ruining the United States at breakneck speed.

I personally miss Trump. I miss the economy, the non nonsense, the putting us first and I especially miss his mean tweets!

If you're one of the types who believe in the Russia collusion/nuke paperwork hoax, please stop watching and reading whatever it is you're watching and reading. Instead, step away from that noise and simply ask yourself why "they" have gone to the lengths they have in order to persecute the man.

I'll give you a hint: It's not about Trump, per se, but it's more about him not being China first, his ability to speak the truth about the Soros' and Pelosi's, among other things. It's a very deep dive, but an interesting one to take if you can clear the BS you've been fed by MSNBC, CNN and The Twitter Echo Chamber of Nonsense. Start with 2000 Mules and go from there.

It's been a witch hunt for six long years. They do not have anything on the man, or he'd be arrested by now. Trump is THE MOST investigated man in history and they've got nothing. He is going to get the nom, he is going to win (some believe for a third time) and I PRAY our economy bounces back from Biden, Obama and Nancy's deliberate annihilation of it.

I'm trying to imagine what "truth" Trump ever spoke about Pelosi and Soros.

And I don't see why you say "they've got nothing" on Trump. "They" have always had plenty. But because he was president, and had the nearly full backing of his party, he has so far been able to avoid impeachment/conviction.  So the issue for years now is why Trump supporters don't seem to care much about evidence and logic.

But you have hit on something important here--the political division in the US is in large part a division in news sources. That's why people who think the election was stolen from Trump also tend to believe the Russian investigation was a "hoax" based on the Steele Dossier and the impeachment trials were "witch hunts"--never mind the evidence of guilt. That carries into current investigations in Georgia and Florida, where we have Trump on tape tampering with elections and boxes of stolen documents in his home. The facts--in Trump world AKA "MSM BS"--don't matter. 

You are inviting people to ditch the more trustworthy and accountable mainstream news sources in favor of a bubble of hard-right sources embracing conspiracies. Where can one go from 2000 Mules--except to its debunking?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/watch-the-moment-when-the-e2-80-982000-mules-e2-80-99-folks-admit-their-supposed-evidence-is-nonsense/ar-AA10JFjw

[*Nately120*]

Speaking of conspiracy stuff, didn't Mike Lindell have another of those "this is gonna overturn the election" symposiums over the weekend? Is Trump president again?

[grampahol]

(08-19-2022, 11:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: All jokes aside, people have had to look into the constitutionality of prison disqualifying a person from running for president, and it may be one of those "There is nothing in the rules that say an elephant can't play baseball" type situations...right?  I could be wrong.

He won't be in prison unless he's a convicted felon and even then it's doubtful he'll ever see the inside of a cell although personally I'd be happy if he were hung at halftime on the 50 yardline during the superbowl  or just feed to a bunch of hungry lions..If the Bengals are in it again, hungry tigers.. I'm not picky. If convicted he can't hold federal office again..

[GMDino]

(08-22-2022, 11:24 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Ok, so when Pelosi screws up, the virus was new but doesn't apply to Trump as being new? How about she stopped talking about it because she, just like the rest of us including Trump, didn't have a clue what to expect next.  The left in general ignored the warnings of the virus because of the administration giving out the warnings. They were anti-anything with the Trump administration and it bit her in the ass. But keep making excuses for her. Next, you'll have some excuse for when she did get on board and supported quarantine, she went to see her hairdresser.


Hate is blind.

So you didn't read anything I wrote?  Or check the links?

Both were wrong early on.  I don't know what Pelosi knew when she went to Chinatown because she didn't tell a reporter on the record that it was deadly and worse than the flu like Trump did.

What I do know is that for the rest of the year Trump continued to downplay and lie about the coronavirus.

I don't know a single liberal personally who didn't care about the virus just because Trump said it was bad.  We all took precautions because we understood the news about it.

But I get it that no one can criticize the things trump actually did and said without a "whatabout" coming flying in, so have at it.

[grampahol]

The left is China first? That's news.. I guess you missed the part when Nancy Pelosi stood in Tianamen Square holding a banner denouncing the CCP.. I know..I know..Pics or it didn't happen, but there are pics and plenty of them. That was back in her freshman stint in congress and she's still hawkish on China. She went to Taiwan despite being threatened by the criminal regime of the biggest tofu army in the history of armies. OK, so she took an aircraft carrier group along for the ride.
What did trump do? He played footsie with Putin, Xi and the midget from North Korea and his "love letters".. Yeah, trump is strong..Too bad he doesn't use deodorant. 

[Dill]

(08-23-2022, 12:10 AM)grampahol Wrote: The left is China first? That's news.. I guess you missed the part when Nancy Pelosi stood in Tianamen Square holding a banner denouncing the CCP.. I know..I know..Pics or it didn't happen, but there are pics and plenty of them. That was back in her freshman stint in congress and she's still hawkish on China. She went to Taiwan despite being threatened by the criminal regime of the biggest tofu army in the history of armies. OK, so she took an aircraft carrier group along for the ride.
What did trump do? He played footsie with Putin, Xi and the midget from North Korea and his "love letters".. Yeah, trump is strong..Too bad he doesn't use deodorant. 

I don't think of Pelosi as "the left," but agree it is pretty wild, way off, to think that either party is/was ever "China first." 

Some Republicans and commentators say that a lot, and then it becomes true for their audience. It's propaganda.

Pulling out of the TPP helped China and hurt the U.S. "The Left" was not behind that.

[HarleyDog]

(08-22-2022, 09:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: So you didn't read anything I wrote?  Or check the links?

Both were wrong early on.  I don't know what Pelosi knew when she went to Chinatown because she didn't tell a reporter on the record that it was deadly and worse than the flu like Trump did.

What I do know is that for the rest of the year Trump continued to downplay and lie about the coronavirus.

I don't know a single liberal personally who didn't care about the virus just because Trump said it was bad.  We all took precautions because we understood the news about it.

But I get it that no one can criticize the things trump actually did and said without a "whatabout" coming flying in, so have at it.

Yes, both were wrong because nobody knew.

I call bullshit on liberals taking precautions because you understood news for two reasons. 1. You can’t speak for all liberals and I must ask why you think you can? 2. Nobody knew.

[Dill]

(08-24-2022, 07:13 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yes, both were wrong because nobody knew.

I call bullshit on liberals taking precautions because you understood news for two reasons. 1. You can’t speak for all liberals and I must ask why you think you can? 2. Nobody knew.

Sure, "nobody knew."

But surely we can still see rather different responses, over time, between "illiberals" as a group and the more science oriented "liberals." And not just in this country.

Were any "liberal" leaders/commentators crying that this whole pandemic thing was a "hoax"? That this would be no worse than the usual seasonal flu? That the government was hyping death stats while hospital wards were really empty? That the only point of vaccination and masking was to "control the population"?

There is no issue here of "speaking for all liberals" when it is so difficult to find anti-science liberals who fight masking and vaccination, and so easy to find MAGA voters who do.

We are NOT in this state of affairs because "liberals" wouldn't believe anything said by the Trump administration.* E.g., the Fox-vilified Fauci was part of the Trump administration. Was "the left" anti-Fauci?

We are in this state of affairs because a segment of the population believed Trump/Hannity/Carlson over the doctors; STILL DOES. What's the point of going back to find some point in history where "liberals" got it wrong too, when the other side still gets it so wrong long after, and still wants the Disinformer-in-Chief back in charge of the country? You cannot exonerate MAGA world from its continued error by reaching back for some point when "both sides" got it wrong. That doesn't make libs "just as bad." 

*Granted though, they may not have believed the virus would go away in the summer, as Trump predicted, or that the effectiveness of bleach and sunlight on hard surface promised new research directions for treatment.

[BmorePat87]

(08-19-2022, 11:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I am aware. It would be an interesting constitutional question. Personally, I think there should be an amendment that makes anyone that lacks the right to vote ineligible for office. But that's just me.

If he can't go to his own inauguration, he can't officially be sworn in as President. Then newly sworn in Vice President Elise Stefanik is acting President and her first act is to pardon Trump so that he can leave prison to be sworn in as President. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-21-2022, 02:51 PM)BengalB Wrote: If you've done any independent research and understand statistics and can math, you'd realize that there is a very strong possibility that there was a coup in 2020. 

The misguided confidence of conspiracy theorists is wild. 

[GMDino]

(08-27-2022, 01:11 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If he can't go to his own inauguration, he can't officially be sworn in as President. Then newly sworn in Vice President Elise Stefanik is acting President and her first act is to pardon Trump so that he can leave prison to be sworn in as President. 

Interesting.

To swear HIM in she would have to step down and created a void to be filled, correct?  And once she stepped down would we not have to go through the entire succession field before Trump could be sworn in?

Could they swear him in while in prison?  No one says it has to happen where it does.  Johnson was sworn in o a plane after the JFK assassination.

[GMDino]

(08-24-2022, 07:13 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yes, both were wrong because nobody knew.

I call bullshit on liberals taking precautions because you understood news for two reasons. 1. You can’t speak for all liberals and I must ask why you think you can? 2. Nobody knew.

1) I specifically said the liberals "I knew".

2) Trump knew before he lied in February and he lied all the way through October.