Some Republicans vote against anti-bigotry resolution.

[*bfine32*]

(04-12-2019, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is her quote

"CAIR was founded after 9/11, because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties,"

How many of you would be squealing "racism" if she had said this instead?

"CAIR was founded after 9/11, because they recognized that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties,"


I think this is just much ado about nothing.

(04-12-2019, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: riticisms of Israel and pro-Israel American lobbying organizations. 

"Ilhan Omar isn’t just anti-Semitic – she’s anti-American," Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel said in a tweet referencing her 9/11 remark.

Accuses "us" of squealing "racism" then links story about trump when called on it...

Seems fair.

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 01:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: My criticism of conservatives who do this is meaningless if it's not uniform. 

I admire your striving for uniformity.  I tend to take it one by one and I don't see "good people on both sides" the same as what Omar said given the rest of what both said which is why I posted it in response to what I did.

My criticism goes to those who need to be criticized regardless of affiliation.  I've even posted praise of Trump on the very few occasions I agreed with him.  And I have never hidden that I find him to a vile human let alone a poor president.

And I don't have a problem with anyone having a problem with the first quote either.  Looking at his tweet he also took umbrage with one quote without acknowledging the rest.  Her response was over the top but she also included a Fox and Friends segment questioning if she is "an american first".

So if Omar is being blasted for one quote and half a tweet I guess that's just what it is.  If I want to say the rest of the quote and the other half were okay I guess that's just what it is too.

Like I said a page ago maybe both sides need to stop talking about stuff the other side says and start working on stuff.

[*bfine32*]

If memory serves Trump got blasted plenty both here and Nationally about his "good people on both sides" tweet about a situation in which 1 American life was lost; yet, in some strange twist of logic it's "unfair... not the same...racist..." to call out Omar for trivializing an event in which 3,000 Americans lost their lives.

Seems fair.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-12-2019, 03:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: I admire your striving for uniformity.  I tend to take it one by one and I don't see "good people on both sides" the same as what Omar said given the rest of what both said which is why I posted it in response to what I did.

#whataboutism

Quote:And I don't have a problem with anyone having a problem with the first quote either.  Looking at his tweet he also took umbrage with one quote without acknowledging the rest.  Her response was over the top but she also included a Fox and Friends segment questioning if she is "an american first".

The Fox reaction is extreme.  At some point though we have to acknowledge that Omar keeps making inflammatory comments.  If this is what she's saying in the public eye what is she thinking that she's not expressing?

Quote:So if Omar is being blasted for one quote and half a tweet I guess that's just what it is.  If I want to say the rest of the quote and the other half were okay I guess that's just what it is too.

Except it's not just that.  In a very short time she's been involved in three controversies of note, one of them prompting her party to file a resolution in the House.

Quote:Like I said a page ago maybe both sides need to stop talking about stuff the other side says and start working on stuff.

We should be so lucky.

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 03:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If memory serves Trump got blasted plenty both here and Nationally about his "good people on both sides" tweet about a situation in which 1 American life was lost; yet, in some strange twist of logic it's "unfair... not the same...racist..." to call out Omar for trivializing an event in which 3,000 Americans lost their lives.

Seems fair.

Omar gets called out about a LOT of stuff she said.  She's even apologized for some of it.  She's certainly no angel.

However no one said life was fair.  

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 04:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: #whataboutism

Sorry you feel that way.

(04-12-2019, 04:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The Fox reaction is extreme.  At some point though we have to acknowledge that Omar keeps making inflammatory comments.  If this is what she's saying in the public eye what is she thinking that she's not expressing?

To the bold: and therefore her tweet was kinda on target.

I don't know what she, or you or Trump says in private. So I'm talking about this one incident.

(04-12-2019, 04:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Except it's not just that.  In a very short time she's been involved in three controversies of note, one of them prompting her party to file a resolution in the House.

And, again, I'm talking about this one quote. The one quote that Crenshaw responded to. If someone wants to make the larger case (like you are doing) I'm all for that.

I get that her statement did not happen in a vacuum. I also get that as a Mus she is being watched a littlecloser if she says anything that is seen as "unamerican".

(04-12-2019, 04:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We should be so lucky.

But it won't happen. Not even by people we agree with.

[fredtoast]

(04-12-2019, 03:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If memory serves Trump got blasted plenty both here and Nationally about his "good people on both sides" tweet about a situation in which 1 American life was lost; yet, in some strange twist of logic it's "unfair... not the same...racist..." to call out Omar for trivializing an event in which 3,000 Americans lost their lives.

Seems fair.

You fail to see the big difference.

Omar never suggested there were "good people" among the terrorists.  So this is not anything like what Trump said.

But I guess now the new rule is that every time anyone mentions 9-11 they have to mention how many people were killed or else it is "diminishing" the event.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-12-2019, 04:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sorry you feel that way.

I don't "feel" anyway about it, just pointing out that you're engaging in it.

Quote:To the bold: and therefore her tweet was kinda on target.

I don't know what she, or you or Trump says in private.  So I'm talking about this one incident.

But we do know what she's saying in public and the controversies erupting from it.

Quote:And, again, I'm talking about this one quote.  The one quote that Crenshaw responded to.  If someone wants to make the larger case (like you are doing) I'm all for that.  

The one quote doesn't exist in a vacuum, as you subsequently state.  How we perceive a person's statements is always going to be guided by what we know of that person. 

Quote:I get that her statement did not happen in a vacuum.  I also get that as a Mus she is being watched a littlecloser if she says anything that is seen as "unamerican".

This is a fact or your opinion?  It sounds like you "feel" this is the case.

Quote:But it won't happen.  Not even by people we agree with.

Most likely not.

[*bfine32*]

(04-12-2019, 04:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You fail to see the big difference.

Omar never suggested there were "good people" among the terrorists.  So this is not anything like what Trump said.

But I guess now the new rule is that every time anyone mentions 9-11 they have to mention how many people were killed or else it is "diminishing" the event.

My failing to see the "big difference" aside: I didn't bring up trump; that was the folks that wanted to use "whataboutism' and "but Trump" to defend explain her words. Simply commented on how folks blasting Omar are getting classified as numerous things to include racists. or classify them as "squealing about racism". You know the type.

And 1 death is nothing like 3,000.

No issue with anyone not mentioning the total; I just find trivializing by calling it "something" and calling those that committed the act (somebody).

[jj22]

(04-12-2019, 05:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My failing to see the "big difference" aside: I didn't bring up trump; that was the folks that wanted to use "whataboutism' and "but Trump" to defend explain her words. Simply commented on how folks blasting Omar are getting classified as numerous things to include racists. or classify them as "squealing about racism". You know the type.

And 1 death is nothing like 3,000.

No issue with anyone not mentioning the total; I just find trivializing by calling it "something" and calling those that committed the act (somebody).

No whataboutism from me. I'm willing to call her an anti Semitist if you want me to. But I won't call her one and not Trump who has tweeted and said far worse anti Semitism things like you see happening now in the media and in this thread. That's the big difference. No more holding one party accountable and not the other.

I know it happens because Americans allow it to, but I don't have to play along. I'm not slamming Dems anymore for things that we have excused and ignored Republicans for doing. Trump has set a new standard, Republicans have always gotten a pass for their perceived morality (religious right) and if we aren't holding Republicans accountable, then I'm not holding Dems accountable.

[*bfine32*]

(04-12-2019, 05:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: No whataboutism from me. I'm willing to call her an anti Semitist if you want me to. But I won't call her one and not Trump who has tweeted and said far worse anti Semitism things like you see happening now in the media and in this thread. That's the big difference. No more holding one party accountable and not the other.

I know it happens because Americans allow it to, but I don't have to play along. I'm not slamming Dems anymore for things that we have excused and ignored Republicans for doing. Trump has set a new standard, Republicans have always gotten a pass for their perceived morality (religious right) and if we aren't holding Republicans accountable, then I'm not holding Dems accountable.

I don't want you to call her anything; nor, is the point who's worse her or Trump. Also I'm not naive enough not to realize some folk's opinions of her are swayed because she wears a scarf on her head. WTS, it shouldn't give you an alibi for saying ignorant things. 

As I said earlier she and many of the other new Dems are quickly becoming Trump's biggest Allie.  

[fredtoast]

(04-12-2019, 05:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My failing to see the "big difference" aside: I didn't bring up trump; that was the folks that wanted to use "whataboutism' and "but Trump" to defend explain her words.

Actually it was YOU who brought up Trump.  Here is the exact post.

(04-12-2019, 03:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If memory serves Trump got blasted plenty both here and Nationally about his "good people on both sides" tweet about a situation in which 1 American life was lost; yet, in some strange twist of logic it's "unfair... not the same...racist..." to call out Omar for trivializing an event in which 3,000 Americans lost their lives.

Seems fair.

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it was YOU who brought up Trump.  Here is the exact post.

No, it was me.  I responded to bfines sudden horror at people saying inappropriate things and gently remind him about "good people on both sides".

[BmorePat87]

(04-12-2019, 02:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I just posted a comment "referencing her 9-11 comments"  that called her anti-Semitic.  Since you were not the one that made that comment you have no idea if the label was based on something else. 

If Mike brown makes a stupid move and I say "Not only is he cheap, but he is stupid" you can't start splitting up my comment and claim the "cheap" part of it was based on one move and "stupid" part of it was based on a different one.

"Ilhan Omar isn’t just anti-Semitic – she’s anti-American"

If the anti-semitic part wasn't in reference to her previous comments on Israel, it would have said "Omar is anti-semitic and anti American". Considering that there's nothing anti-semitic about what she said about CAIR, it's safe to say that she wasn't called a racist for her comments. 

Pretty basic logic there.

[BmorePat87]

(04-12-2019, 03:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: I admire your striving for uniformity.  I tend to take it one by one and I don't see "good people on both sides" the same as what Omar said given the rest of what both said which is why I posted it in response to what I did.

My criticism goes to those who need to be criticized regardless of affiliation.  I've even posted praise of Trump on the very few occasions I agreed with him.  And I have never hidden that I find him to a vile human let alone a poor president.

And I don't have a problem with anyone having a problem with the first quote either.  Looking at his tweet he also took umbrage with one quote without acknowledging the rest.  Her response was over the top but she also included a Fox and Friends segment questioning if she is "an american first".

So if Omar is being blasted for one quote and half a tweet I guess that's just what it is.  If I want to say the rest of the quote and the other half were okay I guess that's just what it is too.

Like I said a page ago maybe both sides need to stop talking about stuff the other side says and start working on stuff.

Whether or not they're the same is irrelevant. The issue at hand was the need to immediately engage in whataboutism. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-12-2019, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it was YOU who brought up Trump.  Here is the exact post.

Actually YOU are wrong. 

Fred gives bfine the cyber smackdown:

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 08:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Whether or not they're the same is irrelevant. The issue at hand was the need to immediately engage in whataboutism. 

I disagree that it was whataboutism.

[BmorePat87]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/12/trump-un-committee-1272422?fbclid=IwAR2TX51nIOqpFKXiX54ZzSUmVKGb1J1K65gkyL0jVU_5CYUeDm6MyIvmyQs

The White House blocked the renomination of our current representative (an Obama nominee) for the UN committee on racism and declined to nominate someone to replace her.

[*bfine32*]

(04-12-2019, 09:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: I disagree that it was whataboutism.

Nobody thought you would concede the fact. 

[GMDino]

(04-12-2019, 10:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nobody thought you would concede the fact. 

First: "Nobody" would think that I wouldn't stand by my words or admit what I said.

So have your opinion but don't doubt my integrity just because I didn't take an oath to defend everything the POTUS says and does.

Second: If there is ANY whataboutism it's whatabout some posters response to what DJT said, defending it hard core, more than what HE said.  Meanwhile one line from Omar's speech is attacked.

Carry on.