Sorry for accusing people of watching FoxNews

[fredtoast]

I always wondered why so many people here got upset when i accused them of watching FoxNews after they repeated a FoxNews speaking point word-for-word. But now I understand that FoxNews is actually too liberal for many Trump supporters. So instead the support NewsMax

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/media/fox-news-newsmax-reliable-sources/index.html

On Monday the channel averaged 347,000 viewers. On Tuesday, 437,000 viewers. Evening shows like "Spicer & Co" and "Greg Kelly Reports" are reaching 700,000 and 800,000 viewers. These shows struggled to hit 100,000 before the election! Something has clearly changed.

There are two theories: First, that Fox's early projection about Biden winning Arizona enraged Trump loyalists, causing some to flip over to Newsmax, at least temporarily. Second, that Fox's portrayal of Biden as president-elect caused even more angst, and sending even more viewers in Newsmax's direction.

If Fox is merely dabbling in election denialism, Newsmax is doubling down on it. Trump campaign adviser Jason Miller was explicit on Kelly's show Wednesday night: "We gotta stop Joe Biden from becoming the next president."

Newsmax's sudden gains are about demand meeting supply. There is a demand for content that swears Biden is not president-elect; that Trump is not a loser; that Trump might even win a second term. Al Schmidt, the Republican city commissioner of Philadelphia, touched on the demand side when he told CNN's John Berman: "One thing I can't comprehend is how hungry people are to consume lies and to consume information that is not true."

This is a demand issue right now. In the same way that some Trump loyalists are discovering Newsmax, some are also downloading Parler, the "Twitter-like app that describes itself as the world's 'premier free speech social network,'" the New York Times' Mike Isaac and Kellen Browning wrote Wednesday. We are witnessing a further "fracturing of the information ecosystem," caused by conservatives who can't or don't believe that more Americans voted for Biden than Trump.

Here is another article about people leaving FoxNews in order to support Trump. The headline pretty much explains that story

https://www.chicksonright.com/blog/2020/11/11/fox-news-faces-backlash-after-episodes-of-blatant-bias-and-dishonesty/

Fox News Faces Backlash After Episodes Of Blatant Bias And Dishonesty


Remember when headlines like that were from MSNBC?


Here is another story from the people who cry the loudets about "cancel culture"

https://welovetrump.com/2020/11/10/fox-news-ratings-tanking-ever-since-claims-they-backstabbed-trump/

Fox News Ratings TANKING Ever Since Claims They “Backstabbed” Trump


So it looks like Fox is now just another part of the Lamestream Media. I have to start moving down the line to NewsMax, OANN, Breitbert, and Rush Limbaugh to get "THE TRUTH".

[NATI BENGALS]

I really need to think about starting a business to pander to the “conservative” crowd. The greatest conman in the world saw the opportunity and pounced.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(11-16-2020, 06:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I really need to think about starting a business to pander to the “conservative” crowd. The greatest conman in the world saw the opportunity and pounced.

Yeah, kicking myself for not printing Trump flags, signs or bumper stickers. Could have made a killing the last 4 years.

[Millhouse]

When wahts her face Trumps press secretary was spewing a bunch of baseless crap about election fraud and so-on, Neil Cavuto on Fox broke away from it and basically said he couldn't keep airing it on his show in good conscience, to paraphrase quite a bit there, but you get the gist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2020/11/09/fox-news-kayleigh-mcenany-cut-away-fraud/

[CJD]

(11-16-2020, 06:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I really need to think about starting a business to pander to the “conservative” crowd. The greatest conman in the world saw the opportunity and pounced.

The right is absolutely filled with grifters and conmen who are just saying things they know their fans want to hear even if they don't agree with it or know it isn't true.

Just off the top of my head you have Alex "I'm just playing a character, please don't take my kids away" Jones, Tucker Carlson (who also used the "my viewers know not to take me seriously" defense) and Candace Owens, who was an outspoken liberal until she learned that being conservative and black was WAY more lucrative.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rush Limbaugh is the same way, but I wouldn't be surprised if he really was just as crazy as he seems as well, so he could go either way. 

[Au165]

The rumor is Trump allies are actively trying to buy NewsMax so it makes sense that Fox News is being positioned as too liberal leading up to the potential purchase.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2020, 09:15 AM)Au165 Wrote: The rumor is Trump allies are actively trying to buy NewsMax so it makes sense that Fox News is being positioned as too liberal leading up to the potential purchase.

Trump needs to buy a news network and run for president in 2024 so we can go full 1984, or something.

[Au165]

(11-17-2020, 10:39 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump needs to buy a news network and run for president in 2024 so we can go full 1984, or something.

It is also believed as soon as he leaves office he will begin his 2024 campaign...we are there.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2020, 10:54 AM)Au165 Wrote: It is also believed as soon as he leaves office he will begin his 2024 campaign...we are there.

TRUMP 2024...this time it's even more super-rigged against me than the first two times!

[Dill]

(11-16-2020, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I always wondered why so many people here got upset when i accused them of watching FoxNews after they repeated a FoxNews speaking point word-for-word.  But now I understand that FoxNews is actually too liberal for many Trump supporters.  So instead the support NewsMax

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/media/fox-news-newsmax-reliable-sources/index.html

Newsmax's sudden gains are about demand meeting supply. There is a demand for content that swears Biden is not president-elect; that Trump is not a loser; that Trump might even win a second term. Al Schmidt, the Republican city commissioner of Philadelphia, touched on the demand side when he told CNN's John Berman: "One thing I can't comprehend is how hungry people are to consume lies and to consume information that is not true."

This is a demand issue right now. In the same way that some Trump loyalists are discovering Newsmax, some are also downloading Parler, the "Twitter-like app that describes itself as the world's 'premier free speech social network,'" the New York Times' Mike Isaac and Kellen Browning wrote Wednesday. We are witnessing a further "fracturing of the information ecosystem," caused by conservatives who can't or don't believe that more Americans voted for Biden than Trump.

The bolded is the important take away from that article.  

There is a now a disinformation economy driven by demand. 

Fox has fractured, with the honest journalists calling the election as it went and the conspiracy mongers like Hannity, Ingraham, Levin, and Rush continuing the "breaking news" tactic, reporting this or that new "Trump team" strategy to contest the election without mentioning how many of their lawsuits have been dropped. They continue to report new claims of fraud faster than the MSM reveals their debunking.

Newsmax and OANN and similar sites are positioned to supply that demand--I.e., to take away market share from Fox.

[BmorePat87]

With his loss, it's easier to go onto Trump's twitter account knowing he won't be President in 2 months.

He is really shitting on Fox and pushing OAN and NewsMax

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2020, 12:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: With his loss, it's easier to go onto Trump's twitter account knowing he won't be President in 2 months.

He is really shitting on Fox and pushing OAN and NewsMax

It just shows how attempting to placate and promote someone as selfish as Trump never pays off.  No matter how far you go it's not going to be far enough and he's going to want more and then he's going to turn on you.

Good ol' fox news, spends years talking up Trump and convincing viewers that he's awesome and Trump repays that favor by using his media-driven starpower to take their audience away and push them off a cliff.

[BmorePat87]

(11-17-2020, 12:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It just shows how attempting to placate and promote someone as selfish as Trump never pays off.  No matter how far you go it's not going to be far enough and he's going to want more and then he's going to turn on you.

Good ol' fox news, spends years talking up Trump and convincing viewers that he's awesome and Trump repays that favor by using his media-driven starpower to take their audience away and push them off a cliff.

A warning for Republicans moving forward. We're already seeing it with a few former Trump backed officials. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2020, 01:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: A warning for Republicans moving forward. We're already seeing it with a few former Trump backed officials. 

That's what happens when you tell people to listen to Trump and to hell with any dissenting opinions or logic.  Go figure, Trump given absolute power over a percentage of people has become a bit of an out of control monster.

It's like the scientists in an old sci fi movie.  We made the monster too powerful and now he's running amok!  Who saw this coming!  Help us everyone who told us not to do this!

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic but maybe not.

FOX NEWS - Listen to Trump, nobody else...and that includes us when he decides we are no longer loyal enough to him.

[BmorePat87]

(11-17-2020, 01:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's what happens when you tell people to listen to Trump and to hell with any dissenting opinions or logic.  Go figure, Trump given absolute power over a percentage of people has become a bit of an out of control monster.

It's like the scientists in an old sci fi movie.  We made the monster too powerful and now he's running amok!  Who saw this coming!  Help us everyone who told us not to do this!

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic but maybe not.

FOX NEWS - Listen to Trump, nobody else...and that includes us when he decides we are no longer loyal enough to him.

Conservatives have always had an issue with things like science and academia, but you have a GOP president telling lies every day about health, science, and the integrity of our government, and the result will be a base that believes fringe conspiracy over facts. After he's out of office, they still have to deal with a large portion of their base that believes some of the dumbest, completely made up things. Once sacks of shit like McConnell are gone, you're going to have a generation of Marco Rubio's trying to restore the GOP to the party that valued people like McCain, but they're going to struggle.

Conservatives used to say they value facts and liberals value emotion. It's now the opposite. 

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2020, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I always wondered why so many people here got upset when i accused them of watching FoxNews after they repeated a FoxNews speaking point word-for-word.  But now I understand that FoxNews is actually too liberal for many Trump supporters.  So instead the support NewsMax

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/media/fox-news-newsmax-reliable-sources/index.html

On Monday the channel averaged 347,000 viewers. On Tuesday, 437,000 viewers. Evening shows like "Spicer & Co" and "Greg Kelly Reports" are reaching 700,000 and 800,000 viewers. These shows struggled to hit 100,000 before the election! Something has clearly changed.

There are two theories: First, that Fox's early projection about Biden winning Arizona enraged Trump loyalists, causing some to flip over to Newsmax, at least temporarily. Second, that Fox's portrayal of Biden as president-elect caused even more angst, and sending even more viewers in Newsmax's direction.

If Fox is merely dabbling in election denialism, Newsmax is doubling down on it. Trump campaign adviser Jason Miller was explicit on Kelly's show Wednesday night: "We gotta stop Joe Biden from becoming the next president."

Newsmax's sudden gains are about demand meeting supply. There is a demand for content that swears Biden is not president-elect; that Trump is not a loser; that Trump might even win a second term. Al Schmidt, the Republican city commissioner of Philadelphia, touched on the demand side when he told CNN's John Berman: "One thing I can't comprehend is how hungry people are to consume lies and to consume information that is not true."

This is a demand issue right now. In the same way that some Trump loyalists are discovering Newsmax, some are also downloading Parler, the "Twitter-like app that describes itself as the world's 'premier free speech social network,'" the New York Times' Mike Isaac and Kellen Browning wrote Wednesday. We are witnessing a further "fracturing of the information ecosystem," caused by conservatives who can't or don't believe that more Americans voted for Biden than Trump.

Here is another article about people leaving FoxNews in order to support Trump.  The headline pretty much explains that story

https://www.chicksonright.com/blog/2020/11/11/fox-news-faces-backlash-after-episodes-of-blatant-bias-and-dishonesty/

Fox News Faces Backlash After Episodes Of Blatant Bias And Dishonesty


Remember when headlines like that were from MSNBC?


Here is another story from the people who cry the loudets about "cancel culture"  

https://welovetrump.com/2020/11/10/fox-news-ratings-tanking-ever-since-claims-they-backstabbed-trump/

Fox News Ratings TANKING Ever Since Claims They “Backstabbed” Trump


So it looks like Fox is now just another part of the Lamestream Media.  I have to start moving down the line to NewsMax, OANN, Breitbert, and Rush Limbaugh to get "THE TRUTH".

Here's an idea, fred, why not attack a person's message instead of where they supposedly got the message? I don't care that you repeat all the same talking points of CNN, MSNBC, and all the other liberal leaning media. I address your posts, not where the ideas/thoughts behind them came from.

Also, why do you guys care whether Fox News or Newsmax or whatever is conservatively biased yet DON'T care that CNN, MSNBC, etc. are liberally biased? 

You complain so much about the "right wing echo chamber" but you ignore the left wing echo chamber and you're doing your darndest to try to make this place into a left wing echo chamber. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2020, 02:00 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's an idea, fred, why not attack a person's message instead of where they supposedly got the message? I don't care that you repeat all the same talking points of CNN, MSNBC, and all the other liberal leaning media. I address your posts, not where the ideas/thoughts behind them came from.

Also, why do you guys care whether Fox News or Newsmax or whatever is conservatively biased yet DON'T care that CNN, MSNBC, etc. are liberally biased? 

You complain so much about the "right wing echo chamber" but you ignore the left wing echo chamber and you're doing your darndest to try to make this place into a left wing echo chamber. 

Without delving too deep into this, I want to again stress that being anti-Trump hasn't been a left-wing notion since 2016...the guy has been getting bi-partisan bashings for years now.  This is validated by Trump turning on any republican critics and finding shelter in sources that go beyond right wing into pure Trump-first territory, in my opinion.
 
We can admit that for-profit news is tailored to placate, not challenge or inform an audience.  Trump is novel in the sense that he has continually engaged in the morally-dubious actions of using his platform as a means to influence, praise, and criticize these private entities.  The man has been all about controlling the narrative and he's the first president who has really become a primary "news source" in himself.

This goes well beyond people thinking their chosen biased news filter is more balanced than it really is.

[hollodero]

(11-18-2020, 02:00 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Also, why do you guys care whether Fox News or Newsmax or whatever is conservatively biased yet DON'T care that CNN, MSNBC, etc. are liberally biased? 

For me, that is because FOX (with exceptions for sure) and those even further right are considerably worse. Which is putting it too mildly. The amount of misinformation and pure propaganda coming from there is quite unmatched from all those stations you mentioned. One can say about them quite a lot, I consider them all weird and sure opinionated and biased, not a fan. But at least they tend to have their facts straight and don't go full leader worship or conspiracy theory. Case in point, they don't claim in court that they can not possibly commit slander for any viewer should get that what they claim as factual is not factual, like a satire show would. Or like Tucker does.

I didn't grow up with those stations, and I can not quite express how utterly shocking the FOX evening shows are for the unfamiliar eye. In their driving a pure political message, their absolute onesidedness, their creating bogeymans, their selling unfounded opinions as facts, their daily liberal slander. And this shock has nothing to do with my own political stance. It's just gross.

CNN, yeah they don't like Trump and show it. MSNBC is distinctly liberal and some of their anchors are too much for me also. Sure they are all talking point producers of their own. But it's not even close to being the mirrored FOX channel. That's why I don't care quite as much.

[*Nately120*]

(11-18-2020, 02:26 PM)hollodero Wrote: For me, that is because FOX (with exceptions for sure) and those even further right are considerably worse. Which is putting it too mildly. The amount of misinformation and pure propaganda coming from there is quite unmatched from all those stations you mentioned. One can say about them quite a lot, I consider them all weird and sure opinionated and biased, not a fan. But at least they tend to have their facts straight and don't go full leader worship or conspiracy theory. Case in point, they don't claim in court that they can not possibly commit slander for any viewer should get that what they claim as factual is not factual, like a satire show would. Or like Tucker does.

I didn't grow up with those stations, and I can not quite express how utterly shocking the FOX evening shows are for the unfamiliar eye. In their driving a pure political message, their absolute onesidedness, their creating bogeymans, their selling unfounded opinions as facts, their daily liberal slander. And this shock has nothing to do with my own political stance. It's just gross.

CNN, yeah they don't like Trump and show it. MSNBC is distinctly liberal and some of their anchors are too much for me also. Sure they are all talking point producers of their own. But it's not even close to being the mirrored FOX channel. That's why I don't care quite as much.

I will say that it is easy to dismiss the "your side is worse" narrative as a bit of a lazy argument but in this case we have a president who flat-out tells people to not listen to the media and to just listen to him and it's accepted and it is effective.  Fox News helped legitimize Trump as a politician and the proof is in the manner by which he conducts himself and the amount of support he gets.

It's hard to look at left wing and right wing propaganda as being the same or on the same level when you have Trump admitting that he's lying and getting rave reviews on one side and a bunch of liberals holding their noses and voting for Biden because he isn't Trump on the other side.  Trump's rise to power and the fact that anyone is listening to him baselessly claim our entire democracy is a sham because he didn't win a second term indicates the right-wing does propoganda frighteningly well.

As I said before, go back to 2010 or so and tell anyone, liberal or republican, that you come from 2020 and tens of millions of Americans are convinced that only Donald Trump loves America and speaks the truth, and see what kind of looks you get. Our current reality would be imperceivable a mere decade ago.

[CKwi88]

(11-18-2020, 02:00 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's an idea, fred, why not attack a person's message instead of where they supposedly got the message? I don't care that you repeat all the same talking points of CNN, MSNBC, and all the other liberal leaning media. I address your posts, not where the ideas/thoughts behind them came from.

Also, why do you guys care whether Fox News or Newsmax or whatever is conservatively biased yet DON'T care that CNN, MSNBC, etc. are liberally biased? 

You complain so much about the "right wing echo chamber" but you ignore the left wing echo chamber and you're doing your darndest to try to make this place into a left wing echo chamber. 

I'm genuinely curious. Who are, from your perspective, the left wing counterparts of people like Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh and Hannity? And what are some of the false narratives pushed by the left wing echo chamber?

I've always found it amazing how people can look at the same exact thing, and see two completely different things, but the rapid descent into disinformation is particularly interesting.