(07-14-2020, 09:57 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't support protesting on private property.
On the other hand, protestors were attempting to protest a public official who was on a private island due to how St Louis divided up private neighborhoods years ago. I do think they have the right to address the public official peacefully.
Most likely could have done it at her public employment location.
Problem is: That white couple probably would have showed up looking for trouble.
(07-14-2020, 10:03 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Defund the police is the main one. I dont know if most Democrat politicians arent behind it, when Biden already seems to back it which surprised me, even if it was a knee jerk reaction. But they could be, like the city council here in Cincy seems to be.
Hate to talk about BLM in the BLM Mega Thread, but I think many have issues with their global HQ and how they allocate their funds. There are reports they spend much more on travel and their staff than they do on funding local movements.
Personally, I don't think they do enough to call out the violence committed in their name.
(07-14-2020, 10:03 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Defund the police is the main one. I dont know if most Democrat politicians arent behind it, when Biden already seems to back it which surprised me, even if it was a knee jerk reaction. But they could be, like the city council here in Cincy seems to be.
A recent Trump ad claims Biden supports it, but he hasn't endorsed the movement, just some aspects like investing part of the budget into mental health and community services and over militarization of the police.
Schumer did block a Senate resolution denouncing Defund the Police, but did not endorse DtP, instead trashing the resolution as empty rhetoric and called on the Senate to vote on the police reform bill from the House.
(07-14-2020, 09:57 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't support protesting on private property.
On the other hand, protestors were attempting to protest a public official who was on a private island due to how St Louis divided up private neighborhoods years ago. I do think they have the right to address the public official peacefully.
So, what of the neighbors who work hard, and pay good money to live there? Are their rights to be stomped on, simply because the Mayor lives in the same neighborhood? (full disclosure, I hate subdivisions and refuse to live in one)
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-14-2020, 09:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is unnecessary.
I asked you what the relevance to it being a private street, something acknowledged and discussed the night this happened when it was posted here, to the three things I pointed to in my response. I want to know how the private street piece addresses my post that you were quoting.
By asking what the relevance of it was, I was in no way closing myself off from it.
Are you suggesting that:
1) Trump's claims had merit because it was a private street, despite video of the night showing no violence or threats to them
2) they were right to engage in dangerous mishandling of firearms, including pointing weapons at people with their finger on the trigger, because those people were walking on a private street?
This is the discussion I've asked us to have 3 times now.
Pat, you started a thread with a title of BLM. You then proceeded to post an OP that made no mention of the group, but only to offer a loaded response to the President's response to an event.
You're going to have to try harder, if you want people on the other side to take you seriously.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-14-2020, 10:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, what of the neighbors who work hard, and pay good money to live there? Are their rights to be stomped on, simply because the Mayor lives in the same neighborhood? (full disclosure, I hate subdivisions and refuse to live in one)
Neighborhoods on private streets shouldn't exist, but as long as they do, people should not trespass.
That said, nothing about their trespassing suggested the brutal assault of that couple, their house being ransacked, and their house being burned. I also do not think walking on a private street warrants being shot, so pointing a gun with your hand on the trigger is not justified when people walk past your house along a private road.
I can both say that protestors shouldn't have gone on a private street (as I did in the last thread) and also say that the couple overreacted and posed more of a threat with the way they handled their guns.
(07-14-2020, 10:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat, you started a thread with a title of BLM. You then proceeded to post an OP that made no mention of the group, but only to offer a loaded response to the President's response to an event.
You're going to have to try harder, if you want people on the other side to take you seriously.
Here's the kicker....The ST Louis event had nothing to do with BLM and their police brutality message.
(07-14-2020, 10:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat, you started a thread with a title of BLM. You then proceeded to post an OP that made no mention of the group, but only to offer a loaded response to the President's response to an event.
The protest in question was a BLM protest. The mayor doxxed people who wrote into her asking her to support Defund the Police. I also tied Trump's response to his recent string of attacks on the movement as well.
Quote:You're going to have to try harder, if you want people on the other side to take you seriously.
This violates the rules and has no business being posted here
(07-14-2020, 10:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Neighborhoods on private streets shouldn't exist, but as long as they do, people should not trespass.
That said, nothing about their trespassing suggested the brutal assault of that couple, their house being ransacked, and their house being burned. I also do not think walking on a private street warrants being shot, so pointing a gun with your hand on the trigger is not justified when people walk past your house along a private road.
I can both say that protestors shouldn't have gone on a private street (as I did in the last thread) and also say that the couple overreacted and posed more of a threat with the way they handled their guns.
So, you are stating that in a time of when that group, and similar protest groups made a public statement similar to "just wait, we're coming to your neighborhoods", that these people had nothing to be fearful of?
If you answered yes, you might be kidding yourself. In most States there is a law that entitles citizens to "peaceful enjoyment" of their property. A large and appearing raucous group of people that did not live in the neighborhood, certainly would be alarming to folks just trying to live "peaceful enjoyment".
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-14-2020, 10:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The protest in question was a BLM protest. The mayor doxxed people who wrote into her asking her to support Defund the Police. I also tied Trump's response to his recent string of attacks on the movement as well.
This violates the rules and has no business being posted here
Alright Pat, good evening to you. I can clearly see that the "civil discussion" that you were asking for excludes anything that does not agree with what message you were trying to put out.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-14-2020, 10:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, you are stating that in a time of when that group, and similar protest groups made a public statement similar to "just wait, we're coming to your neighborhoods", that these people had nothing to be fearful of?
If you answered yes, you might be kidding yourself. In most States there is a law that entitles citizens to "peaceful enjoyment" of their property. A large and appearing raucous group of people that did not live in the neighborhood, certainly would be alarming to folks just trying to live "peaceful enjoyment".
No, I said there's no reason to believe that anything that Trump described would have happened to these people if they did not have guns.
It certainly would be alarming. I do not blame them for being worried. But that doesn't 1) excuse the way they pointed guns at them or 2) make anything that Trump said accurate, especially given the video that we have.
If you see a group of protestors walking past your house to the mayor's house, locking the door and calling the cops is actually the safer option over walking outside with guns and pointing them at the people.
(07-14-2020, 10:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Alright Pat, good evening to you. I can clearly see that the "civil discussion" that you were asking for excludes anything that does not agree with what message you were trying to put out.
You literally insulted me after I tried to engage you in discussion after you lied about what I posted...
Honestly why are we ignoring the fact that this incident happened on the heels of massive media coverage of non peaceful protests? I don't know the exact situation with these 2 people, but if I see total nonstop coverage of people breaking into stores and beating up old white business owners with 2 x 4 on tv and then all the sudden there's a protest crowd waltzing through my private neighborhood, yes I would be concerned. Even if they were being peaceful at that moment.
I personally wouldn't be standing on my lawn pointing guns at protesters, but I can certainly understand the fear and right to defend my personal property.
I do thinking standing on your lawn with a gun and especially pointing it towards people is only an escalating event though. Should have stayed inside or on their porch with their weapons to the side at the absolute most IMO.
Everyone wants to put incidents into a bottle ignoring the surrounding occurrences that could have led to why someone acted the way that they did as if it was a single incidence of protesters coming through for a new issue as opposed to all the craziness that has been going on for the past month plus.
(07-14-2020, 11:03 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Honestly why are we ignoring the fact that this incident happened on the heels of massive media coverage of non peaceful protests? I don't know the exact situation with these 2 people, but if I see total nonstop coverage of people breaking into stores and beating up old white business owners with 2 x 4 on tv and then all the sudden there's a protest crowd waltzing through my private neighborhood, yes I would be concerned. Even if they were being peaceful at that moment.
I personally wouldn't be standing on my lawn pointing guns at protesters, but I can certainly understand the fear and right to defend my personal property.
I do thinking standing on your lawn with a gun and especially pointing it towards people is only an escalating event though. Should have stayed inside or on their porch with their weapons to the side at the absolute most IMO.
Everyone wants to put incidents into a bottle ignoring the surrounding occurrences that could have led to why someone acted the way that they did as if it was a single incidence of protesters coming through for a new issue as opposed to all the craziness that has been going on for the past month plus.
I stated it earlier. This guy has pointed a weapon at people who live in his neighborhood for being on a piece of land this couple claims they own. He's also destroyed beehives that were on school property behind his house. There is a history with these two clowns.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(07-14-2020, 09:57 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't support protesting on private property.
On the other hand, protestors were attempting to protest a public official who was on a private island due to how St Louis divided up private neighborhoods years ago. I do think they have the right to address the public official peacefully.
I think the protesters were wrong to enter the locked gate, they should've kept their protest outside of that gate. That being said, the couple were wrong to point their weapons at the protesters unless there was an imminent threat to their lives or property. No protester was threatening that couple, trespassing yes, threatening no. I'm not saying the couple weren't allowed to arm themselves, but when they decided to point their weapons at the protesters they were wrong also. What they should've done first was call the police, then peacefully guard themselves with their weapons "by their side" to let the protesters know they were armed and "ready" to protect themselves and property if need be. If I were them, I would've stayed in my house until the police arrived unless the protesters approached the house in a threatening manner.
Yes, the protesters have a right to protest any public official they wish, but I think they would be better served and received if they would hold their protest at the local town hall or at the officials office.
(07-14-2020, 11:03 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Honestly why are we ignoring the fact that this incident happened on the heels of massive media coverage of non peaceful protests? I don't know the exact situation with these 2 people, but if I see total nonstop coverage of people breaking into stores and beating up old white business owners with 2 x 4 on tv and then all the sudden there's a protest crowd waltzing through my private neighborhood, yes I would be concerned. Even if they were being peaceful at that moment.
I personally wouldn't be standing on my lawn pointing guns at protesters, but I can certainly understand the fear and right to defend my personal property.
I do thinking standing on your lawn with a gun and especially pointing it towards people is only an escalating event though. Should have stayed inside or on their porch with their weapons to the side at the absolute most IMO.
Everyone wants to put incidents into a bottle ignoring the surrounding occurrences that could have led to why someone acted the way that they did as if it was a single incidence of protesters coming through for a new issue as opposed to all the craziness that has been going on for the past month plus.
There is so much ignored in this case that it's beyond absurd. The fact that folks are actually trying to paint this couple that was at their home, eating dinner in their house when an mob stormed their the gate to their private property as the ones to "blame" is beyond my comprehension.
It was not too long ago that I really didn't care who became POTUS, but that's quickly changing.
(07-14-2020, 11:21 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I think the protesters were wrong to enter the locked gate, they should've kept their protest outside of that gate. That being said, the couple were wrong to point their weapons at the protesters unless there was an imminent threat to their lives or property. No protester was threatening that couple, trespassing yes, threatening no. I'm not saying the couple weren't allowed to arm themselves, but when they decided to point their weapons at the protesters they were wrong also. What they should've done first was call the police, then peacefully guard themselves with their weapons "by their side" to let the protesters know they were armed and "ready" to protect themselves and property if need be. If I were them, I would've stayed in my house until the police arrived unless the protesters approached the house in a threatening manner.
Yes, the protesters have a right to protest any public official they wish, but I think they would be better served and received if they would hold their protest at the local town hall or at the officials office.
How do you know that no protesters were threatening the couple? They have testified they were. Were they? IDK, but I'll not dismiss it out of bias.
This case reminds me exactly of those blaming the Covington kid for standing still while wearing a hat.
(07-14-2020, 11:03 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Honestly why are we ignoring the fact that this incident happened on the heels of massive media coverage of non peaceful protests? I don't know the exact situation with these 2 people, but if I see total nonstop coverage of people breaking into stores and beating up old white business owners with 2 x 4 on tv and then all the sudden there's a protest crowd waltzing through my private neighborhood, yes I would be concerned. Even if they were being peaceful at that moment.
I personally wouldn't be standing on my lawn pointing guns at protesters, but I can certainly understand the fear and right to defend my personal property.
I do thinking standing on your lawn with a gun and especially pointing it towards people is only an escalating event though. Should have stayed inside or on their porch with their weapons to the side at the absolute most IMO.
Everyone wants to put incidents into a bottle ignoring the surrounding occurrences that could have led to why someone acted the way that they did as if it was a single incidence of protesters coming through for a new issue as opposed to all the craziness that has been going on for the past month plus.
Is it being ignored? This was discussed at length in the last thread and was discussed here too.
Trump stated this week that they would have been beaten (if lucky) while their house was ransacked and burned, despite there being no evidence that the protest was violent. Whether or not they were worried about a threat doesn't change the fact that they were not threatened and suggesting weeks later that they were is false.
As multiple people have said, the fact that they were worried is legitimate, but it doesn't excuse the way they pointed weapons at the people as they walked past their house. Fearing assault because you saw bad things on the news doesn't give you the right to commit assault by pointing guns at people.
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