Minnesota Rep. Hagedorn Falsely Claims No American Goes to Sleep Hungry

[GMDino]

(05-01-2019, 11:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The context is literally in the quote from the OP and I don't think I have seen a single post (including the OP) actually address it

The "availability of food" has nothing to do with people who are worried about feeding their families or who go to bed hungry.

He made an ignorant (not fact based) statement.

And I know he was just saying how wonderful our agricultural system is...that's great.  But that doesn't have anything to do with the millions who do worry about feeding their families and those who do go to bed hungry every night.

There are an abundance of new car dealers near my home...that doesn't mean everyone can afford a car or no one worries about their car breaking down or how they will get to work or the store (that has all that food)

He was wrong to say what he said.

The headline extrapolated on his statement...and correctly IMHO.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2019, 12:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: Any adult without a child who has already used their 3 month SNAP benefits during the 36 month period in which they can receive them, and makes minimum wage? Not sure many people realize "food stamps" are only temporary assistance for adults unless you have a child or are disabled.

I agree that minimum wage is not enough for a person to do anything more than subsist, but you can feed yourself on a full time minimum wage job.

If there are any people going hungry it is not the governments fault.

[GMDino]

(05-02-2019, 09:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree that minimum wage is not enough for a person to do anything more than subsist, but you can feed yourself on a full time minimum wage job.

If there are any people going hungry it is not the governments fault.

If the government wants to ignore the problem and does nothing to help the least of us it is their fault.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-02-2019, 09:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: If the government wants to ignore the problem and does nothing to help the least of us it is their fault.

Ignoring how?  We spend a lot of money on getting people money for food.  I mean if you want to argue they should get a "raise" so to speak, I'm sure there's an argument for that, but it's not just being ignored.  

[GMDino]

(05-02-2019, 09:39 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Ignoring how?  We spend a lot of money on getting people money for food.  I mean if you want to argue they should get a "raise" so to speak, I'm sure there's an argument for that, but it's not just being ignored.  

I mean elected officials who say dumb things like "no one goes to sleep at night worrying if they'll be able to feed their family".  That is simply ignoring a real problem in the "greatest country on earth".

If he was at least talking about those programs or the "booming" economy and low unemployment he was still be wrong but at least it would be closer to a topic that could relate too.

[BmorePat87]

(05-02-2019, 09:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: The "availability of food" has nothing to do with people who are worried about feeding their families or who go to bed hungry.

He made an ignorant (not fact based) statement.

And I know he was just saying how wonderful our agricultural system is...that's great.  But that doesn't have anything to do with the millions who do worry about feeding their families and those who do go to bed hungry every night.

There are an abundance of new car dealers near my home...that doesn't mean everyone can afford a car or no one worries about their car breaking down or how they will get to work or the store (that has all that food)

He was wrong to say what he said.

The headline extrapolated on his statement...and correctly IMHO.

This is why you should use the news source that breaks the story rather than one that is reporting on that news source.

From the Globe:

Quote:“Agriculture is a national security issue,” he said, noting that he feels that dependence on importing food is a threat to the security of the nation.

“Nobody (in America) goes to sleep at night wondering if they’ll be able to feed their families,” Hagedorn commented while speaking about the availability of food in grocery stores, and America having a food supply that is abundant and nutritious in stark comparison to other counties. He added that agriculture is what makes this possible.

You're arguing at this point that his context is irrelevant because you are choosing the new context now. He wasn't speaking to people who go to bed hungry. He was saying that Americans do not worry whether or not they can find food because our nation has available grocery stores full of fresh food. You example is flawed because he's not arguing that people can afford food. He's making the argument that the US food producers can adequately meet the needs of our population without relying on foreign food producers. A more accurate example would be saying "Americans have access to car dealerships, no one wonders if they will be able to find one. We don't need more foreign car companies selling here". 

If you want to argue that he's wrong, you'd likely be countering his comments by referencing food deserts. The article you posted actually does that. Many places, including Minnesota, struggle with inadequate access to stores that carry fresh food that is healthy. 

[GMDino]

(05-02-2019, 11:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This is why you should use the news source that breaks the story rather than one that is reporting on that news source.

From the Globe:




You're arguing at this point that his context is irrelevant because you are choosing the new context now. He wasn't speaking to people who go to bed hungry. He was saying that Americans do not worry whether or not they can find food because our nation has available grocery stores full of fresh food. You example is flawed because he's not arguing that people can afford food. He's making the argument that the US food producers can adequately meet the needs of our population without relying on foreign food producers. A more accurate example would be saying "Americans have access to car dealerships, no one wonders if they will be able to find one. We don't need more foreign car companies selling here". 

If you want to argue that he's wrong, you'd likely be countering his comments by referencing food deserts. The article you posted actually does that. Many places, including Minnesota, struggle with inadequate access to stores that carry fresh food that is healthy. 

So, in the end I was right:  He was wrong.  

His "idea" that there is plenty of food grown here so people don't have to worry about finding it...is wrong.

Food desserts was mentioned in the article...so I didn't need to bring it up.  He was wrong.

To go back to the car example he would be saying "No one worries if they can have a car because we have lots of cars."  I said:

Quote:that doesn't mean everyone can afford a car or no one worries about their car breaking down or how they will get to work or the store

i.e. "no one worries if they can have a car".

Once again, this is a real problem in the US.  And his statement was wrong and ignorant of the facts. People DO worry if they can feed their family. And because of that people DO go to bed hungry.

So if the headline wasn't "what he said" and the article said he was wrong for a different reason...he was still wrong.

If people want to say "he didn't say that" that's fine. But the two things are intertwined in the real world.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 09:45 AM)GMDino Wrote: I mean elected officials who say dumb things like "no one goes to sleep at night worrying if they'll be able to feed their family".  That is simply ignoring a real problem in the "greatest country on earth".

If you have a family then you can get food stamps.

If a family is hungry it is because they are using their food stamps for something else.

[GMDino]

(05-02-2019, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you have a family then you can get food stamps.

If a family is hungry it is because they are using their food stamps for something else.

You couldn't be more wrong.  But I appreciate the attempt. 

Edit: To add that there may be cases like you describe, but that is an oversimplification of the issue and the problem.

[BmorePat87]

(05-02-2019, 11:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: So, in the end I was right:  He was wrong.  

His "idea" that there is plenty of food grown here so people don't have to worry about finding it...is wrong.

Food desserts was mentioned in the article...so I didn't need to bring it up.  He was wrong.

To go back to the car example he would be saying "No one worries if they can have a car because we have lots of cars."  I said:



i.e. "no one worries if they can have a car".

Once again, this is a real problem in the US.  And his statement was wrong and ignorant of the facts.  People DO worry if they can feed their family.  And because of that people DO go to bed hungry.

So if the headline wasn't "what he said" and the article said he was wrong for a different reason...he was still wrong.

If people want to say "he didn't say that" that's fine.  But the two things are intertwined in the real world.

His premise is flawed but not for the reason you stated. I would hold off on awarding yourself points.

[BmorePat87]

Just so we're clear, there's nothing wrong with using these comments to jump into related topics (so long as you are discussing the topic and not attributing his comments to it), but I saw every single person in this thread engaged in a debate centered around this guy and not a single person was actually addressing the issue: the need for foreign food suppliers and food deserts.

I assumed mentioning this would clear up what seemed to be clear confusion and disagreement over the comments. Didn't think people would double down on being wrong about the context.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-02-2019, 02:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Just so we're clear, there's nothing wrong with using these comments to jump into related topics (so long as you are discussing the topic and not attributing his comments to it), but I saw every single person in this thread engaged in a debate centered around this guy and not a single person was actually addressing the issue: the need for foreign food suppliers and food deserts.

I assumed mentioning this would clear up what seemed to be clear confusion and disagreement over the comments. Didn't think people would double down on being wrong about the context.

Well one person might have doubled down.  (No names)

[*bfine32*]

(05-02-2019, 02:49 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well one person might have doubled down.  (No names)

It all makes sense now:

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 02:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: You couldn't be more wrong.  But I appreciate the attempt. 

Edit: To add that there may be cases like you describe, but that is an oversimplification of the issue and the problem.

I am not wrong.

Food stamps are too easy to get.  I am not sayin g there are no people worried about getting food.  I am just saying it is not the governments fault.

Please explain why a family should be worried about food when they get food stamps.  Just saying "You are wrong" proves nothing.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-02-2019, 04:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It all makes sense now:

this is ***** funny.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2019, 02:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Just so we're clear, there's nothing wrong with using these comments to jump into related topics (so long as you are discussing the topic and not attributing his comments to it), but I saw every single person in this thread engaged in a debate centered around this guy and not a single person was actually addressing the issue: the need for foreign food suppliers and food deserts.

Rep.

[Benton]

If anything, we overproduce food in this country (crops that are grown based off previous need, but get destroyed because there isn't a domestic or foreign market for them ins subsequent years) and over regulate to make sure we have staple crops. If you ask anyone who is a member of a state FB or associated with ag 4H, they take a lot of pride in our country's ability to produce food and stability of our markets compared to food producers globally.

Personally, I'd like to see less subsidies for soy beans and similar crops so that farmers would move into expanding industrial hemp and other non traditional crops that could lower manufacturing and research costs.

[GMDino]

https://map.feedingamerica.org/

He was wrong.  Keep arguing about how best to say he was wrong, but he was wrong.

Again, I'm very familiar with this one.  But everyone can keep discussing "what he meant" vs "what he said" and he'll still be wrong.

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/hunger-and-nutrition?s_src=Y19XP1B1Z&s_keyword=feeding%20america&s_subsrc=c&_ga=2.75938837.1838090923.1556903844-65550959.1556903844&_gac=1.204145316.1556903972.EAIaIQobChMIx_eCx-7_4QIVx0CGCh2n4ASFEAAYASAAEgKuOfD_BwE

But sure...we have a lot of food here!  Yay!

[BmorePat87]

(05-03-2019, 02:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://map.feedingamerica.org/

He was wrong.  Keep arguing about how best to say he was wrong, but he was wrong.

Again, I'm very familiar with this one.  But everyone can keep discussing "what he meant" vs "what he said" and he'll still be wrong.

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/hunger-and-nutrition?s_src=Y19XP1B1Z&s_keyword=feeding%20america&s_subsrc=c&_ga=2.75938837.1838090923.1556903844-65550959.1556903844&_gac=1.204145316.1556903972.EAIaIQobChMIx_eCx-7_4QIVx0CGCh2n4ASFEAAYASAAEgKuOfD_BwE

But sure...we have a lot of food here!  Yay!

And you were wrong in how you characterized his comments. You attributed an argument to him that he never made.

I completely agree that we need to address food deserts and that's a reason why I pointed out that the conversation by everyone in this thread was missing the mark on what topic he was actually discussing. 

He is correct in his suggestion that we do not need more foreign food suppliers as we make plenty in this country. He's wrong in suggesting that it's available to all communities. The challenge now is ensuring that all communities actually have this food accessible.