Storming Of The Capitol Building

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2021, 08:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree with your assessment.  Let me throw a different, real world scenario, at you.  In Portland they tried to set an occupied police station on fire.  Would law enforcement be justified in shooting the people in that crowd at that point?

https://nypost.com/2021/04/14/riot-declared-in-portland-after-police-station-set-on-fire/

I'd look into it if I were on the jury, but that sounds pretty egregious to me, yes.  I'm mostly just depressed stuff like this goes on in this country.  We're the shithole we apparently care about liberating. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-27-2021, 08:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd look into it if I were on the jury, but that sounds pretty egregious to me, yes.  I'm mostly just depressed stuff like this goes on in this country.  We're the shithole we apparently care about liberating. 

My point in raising these questions is to illustrate just how difficult the decisions law enforcement have to make, often in a split second.  Now, ask yourself this, and this is rhetorical, would the same people praising the DC officer feel the same if it was BLM or Antifa protestors storming the Capitol after a Trump election victory?  Would the media frame it in the same way?  

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2021, 08:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: My point in raising these questions is to illustrate just how difficult the decisions law enforcement have to make, often in a split second.  Now, ask yourself this, and this is rhetorical, would the same people praising the DC officer feel the same if it was BLM or Antifa protestors storming the Capitol after a Trump election victory?  Would the media frame it in the same way?  

You know the people cheering would just swap.  And let's not act like there isn't a media outlet that wouldn't defend Antifa getting killed.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-27-2021, 08:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You know the people cheering would just swap.  And let's not act like there isn't a media outlet that wouldn't defend Antifa getting killed.

Some to be sure, not nearly as many.  I don't think that's even disputable.  Again, this perfectly illustrates how law enforcement has become a political bludgeon, being both for and against it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-27-2021, 09:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Some to be sure, not nearly as many.  I don't think that's even disputable.  Again, this perfectly illustrates how law enforcement has become a political bludgeon, being both for and against it.

Meh, I think the right wing would be more likely to get a president to cheer on violence against the left than vice versa...so there is that.

[GMDino]

(08-27-2021, 09:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, I think the right wing would be more likely to get a president to cheer on violence against the left than vice versa...so there is that.

Look just because Trump is on tape saying those things doesn't mean it's real! 

I bet Biden or Obama or Clinton said their supporters should beat the hell out of people who disagree with them too! 

All seriousness aside all officer related shootings are different.  Sometimes it's an officer shooting someone they think might have a gun, sometimes it's officers shooting someone who didn't follow their instructions exactly 100%, sometimes its them returning fire after they broke into the wrong house and the homeowner was defending themselves, sometimes it is a justified shooting to save themselves.

What happened on 1/6, to most of us, is more than justified.  A mob chanting "hang pence", breaking through windows and doors is what most, normal people would call "a threat".

I'm sorry she was killed.  I don't want to see anyone killed...even people who are guilty of something.  But if we're going to accept that police can shoot kids with toy guns because they didn't drop it within 2 seconds of the order than yeah we're gonna have to accept this one.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-29-2021, 10:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: I bet Biden or Obama or Clinton said their supporters should beat the hell out of people who disagree with them too! 

What did Trump say?  Is it the "fight like hell" thing?

Joe Biden:

"If we were in High School I'd take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him."

Nancy Pelosi:

"You gotta be ready to throw a punch."

John Tester:

"Donald Trump, I think you gotta go and punch him in the face."

Maxine Waters:

“You think we’re rallying now? You ain’t seen nothing yet.” “Already you have members of your Cabinet that are being booed out of restaurants ... protesters taking up at their house saying ‘no peace, no sleep.’”

“If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere,” she added.

Cynthia Johnson (This one is the most frightening):

"So, this is just a warning to you Trumpers. Be careful. Walk lightly. We ain’t playing with you. Enough of the shenanigans. Enough is enough,"  "And for those of you who are soldiers, you know how to do it. Do it right. Be in order. Make them pay. I love y’all."

Madonna at a DNC rally to applause:

"I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House."

Johnny Depp to applause in the UK:

When was the last time an actor assinated the Preseident?"

Cory Booker:

"I wanna punch him in the face." ... "Please get up in the face of some congresspeople."

Chuck Shumer:

"I want to tell you Gorsuch, I want to tell you Kavenugh, you have released the whirlwinds and you will pay the price."

Kamala Harris (In response to the question: If you could be on an elevator with President Trump, Mike Pence or Jeff Sessions, who would it be?"

"Does one of us have to come out alive?"  (Note: This was followed by her trademark cackling.)

Elizabeth Warren (After Trump's Victory):

"The way I see it now is we pick ourselves up and we fight back; that's what I think it's all about."  "We stand up and we fight back."
 "We do not back down, we do not compromise. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever."  "You can stand your ground and fight back."

I just pulled these from an 11 minute video, and this was just the first 2:30.

Fwiw, I'm not arguing that Trump's words weren't uncalled for and potentially dangerous, only that the idea that this rhetoric exists only with him or within the GOP is absurd.  And if you're going to take "fight like hell" as a call for violence then I'm not sure how you're going to ignore each and everyone of these. 

So if you found Trump's word unacceptable I would hope you were saying the same about at least half of these.  You can't pick and choose when "fight like hell" or "fighing back" or "punching people" "or make them pay" is just an expression and used for emphasis, and when it's actually a call for your supporters to do harm with those who disagree with them.

Just my 2 cents....

[*Nately120*]

As usual, Trump takes it up to 11 by pointing to a specific group of peoole who are outnumbered and saying "Those people right there are your enemies."  He's dangerously specific about thus stuff.

Politicians always have used fight-ey rhetoric, but Trump has a practice of giving specific targets and then "deputizing" his followers. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2021, 10:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: But if we're going to accept that police can shoot kids with toy guns because they didn't drop it within 2 seconds of the order than yeah we're gonna have to accept this one.

Except you don't accept that.  The constant hypocrisy from you is as predictable as it is sad. 

[GMDino]

(08-29-2021, 03:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Except you don't accept that.  The constant hypocrisy from you is as predictable as it is sad. 

 Geeze...didn't you have "bowl" movement to think about today?  

We "have to" accept them.

Accept them "legally".

Someone looks into each one and investigates it and we have to accept the findings.  

Shooting a kid with a toy gun within seconds of two cops riding up on him in the park isn't something I like, no...but we "have to accept it" just like the right "back the blue" "just do what the officer says" crowd has to accept that on 1/6 that shooting was justified.


But thanks for once again adding nothing to the conversation due to your obsession with me. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2021, 04:09 PM)GMDino Wrote:  Geeze...didn't you have "bowl" movement to think about today? 

Ooooooo, typo smack.  Quite the skill set you have there.

Quote:We "have to" accept them.

Accept them "legally".

Someone looks into each one and investigates it and we have to accept the findings.  

Here I was thinking the last 18+ months of protest were about not "accepting" them.  

Quote:Shooting a kid with a toy gun within seconds of two cops riding up on him in the park isn't something I like, no...but we "have to accept it" just like the right "back the blue" "just do what the officer says" crowd has to accept that on 1/6 that shooting was justified.

And here I was thinking that the last 18+ months of protest were about not "accepting them".  You'll also have to find a person on here who is arguing the Capitol shooting wasn't justified.  Or have you not been paying attention and just assumed?

Quote:But thanks for once again adding nothing to the conversation due to your obsession with me. 

The discussion is on the Capitol shooting and how the "suspect" was unarmed.  You constantly wail about law enforcement shooting unarmed people, even when fully justified, so pointing that out is absolutely part of the discussion.  Lastly, don't flatter yourself, I don't have a short, fat, balding middle aged man fetish or anything.  I doubt anyone does outside of Rhea Perlman. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-29-2021, 05:26 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't have a short, fat, balding middle aged man fetish or anything.  I doubt anyone does outside of Rhea Perlman. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

An interesting opinion piece on the Babbitt shooting and the potential double standard at work. I present it for consideration.

https://www.newsweek.com/ashli-babbitt-standard-opinion-1624198

[BigPapaKain]

(09-01-2021, 12:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An interesting opinion piece on the Babbitt shooting and the potential double standard at work.  I present it for consideration.

https://www.newsweek.com/ashli-babbitt-standard-opinion-1624198

That article in of itself is a double standard at work. Isn't Newsweek usually the one not questioning police shootings?

It's also using pretty broad strokes here. I'm a pretty liberal guy and some of the "bad shootings" weren't without warrant. The ones that bother me are the ones that are pretty cut and dry executions (the dude in the hotel hallway comes to mind).

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2021, 02:00 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: That article in of itself is a double standard at work. Isn't Newsweek usually the one not questioning police shootings?

Not that I'm aware of.  Newsweek is considered fairly left leaning.

Quote:It's also using pretty broad strokes here. I'm a pretty liberal guy and some of the "bad shootings" weren't without warrant. The ones that bother me are the ones that are pretty cut and dry executions (the dude in the hotel hallway comes to mind).

I've said it before, that was the most egregiously awful LEO involved shooting I have ever seen.  I wonder why it didn't get more press coverage?

[BigPapaKain]

(09-01-2021, 02:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not that I'm aware of.  Newsweek is considered fairly left leaning.


I've said it before, that was the most egregiously awful LEO involved shooting I have ever seen.  I wonder why it didn't get more press coverage?

Is it? I'm genuinely curious now. 

Edit - looked into it. Most of the sites I checked that track that kind of thing said center.

That shit was horrifying to watch. As to it's lack of coverage, I can't speak on that. That video alone has made people from every political lean in this country unite in condemnation of it, so it's not like it wouldn't get clicks on every news site.

[Dill]

(09-01-2021, 02:27 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Is it? I'm genuinely curious now. 

Edit - looked into it. Most of the sites I checked that track that kind of thing said center.

That shit was horrifying to watch. As to it's lack of coverage, I can't speak on that. That video alone has made people from every political lean in this country unite in condemnation of it, so it's not like it wouldn't get clicks on every news site.

I'd say Newsweek was center center, as viewed from the far Left (without quotation marks). 

As to the Newsweek editorial, I don't agree that people breaking into a building to go after legislators is quite the same 
as people breaking into a building (which might be empty) to loot it. 

I don't think that SOME police officers refusing (or unable) to shoot while being beaten should be the standard for judging
proper response.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2021, 05:44 PM)Dill Wrote: I'd say Newsweek was center center, as viewed from the far Left (without quotation marks). 

As to the Newsweek editorial, I don't agree that people breaking into a building to go after legislators is quite the same 
as people breaking into a building (which might be empty) to loot it. 

I don't think that SOME police officers refusing (or unable) to shoot while being beaten should be the standard for judging
proper response.

Interesting.  Then I pose to you the same question I asked above, should the LEO's in Portland have been able to shoot the mob that was lighting on fire an occupied police precinct?

[BigPapaKain]

(09-01-2021, 06:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Interesting.  Then I pose to you the same question I asked above, should the LEO's in Portland have been able to shoot the mob that was lighting on fire an occupied police precinct?

I'll answer that.

Abso-*****-lutely. Matter of fact, you try setting fire to any occupied structure you should expect gunfire to come at your arsonist ass.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2021, 07:36 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I'll answer that.

Abso-*****-lutely. Matter of fact, you try setting fire to any occupied structure you should expect gunfire to come at your arsonist ass.

I very much appreciate your answer, but I don't think it was in doubt.  My curiosity is directed at those whose answer is not so predictable.  Please note that predictable is not at all a bad thing.