Stormy kills Bragg case

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2024, 04:49 PM)pally Wrote: I know, that our economy would be in free fall if Trump had been reelected.  Just like his only plan now to "fix" the economy is "drill baby drill" and deport millions of people,  he had no plan in 2020 to fix the economy then.  

So how much do you think allowing millions of illegal aliens in is costing the US now? Also, Drill Baby Drill brings money to the country.

Quote:The Biden economic plan has fueled the economy....look at the jobs numbers, stock market, and corporate profits.  Inflation happened because of the failure of the supply chain to recover from the 2020 shutdowns...which were Trump's fault.  No one likes inflation but economists were forecasting a potential depression post-pandemic and that hasn't happened.

I want to know what jobs were created and how Americans benefit from these jobs. Also, you can't brag about corporate profits and then turn around and complain about corporate profits. As for the shutdowns, I don't get you guys at all. First, Trump wanted to close things for 2 weeks. But yall said, we're fine, come to Chinatown. Then people start dying, and then they blamed Trump for not acting fast enough. So if the pro-mask wearing left, who openly criticised Red states for staying open are blaming Trump for the shutdowns? I'm so confused and my neck hurts from watching all the flip-flopping.

Quote:You were preaching your Christian beliefs about being saved.  You say we are sinners but saved by Christ.  Sins not economic policies.  So I ask again, as the favored candidate of Evangelicals...when has Donald Trump ever expressed any idea that indicates he is a Christian let alone a saved Christian?  He is currently on trial for the actions that came out of his adulterous affair.  Last time I checked that is violated one of God's basic commandments

I probably shouldn't touch this one, because there are only 2 possible outcomes. Me walking away looking like a fool, or, me closing my browser looking like a fool. Either way, the end is predictable.

[GMDino]

(05-09-2024, 04:30 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 35yrs? You know, there was a time I would have enjoyed the execution of every person who spit on veterans returning from Vietnam. But time has passed and I've learned a little compassion and patience. Not saying I still wouldn't enjoy seeing a few of them throat-punched.

That said you conveniently ignored Trump's own views on "innocent until proven guilty" among other long held legal beliefs.

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 04:21 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Innocent until proven guilty is what the country is about, no matter how filthy, evil, or devious the defendant may be.

Trump is in court, people who don't like Trump want him to be in court...so I don't see how this applies.  We can say he's guilty all we want, the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" is about the federal government, not private citizens expressing their views on someone's guilt.

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 04:30 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 35yrs? You know, there was a time I would have enjoyed the execution of every person who spit on veterans returning from Vietnam. But time has passed and I've learned a little compassion and patience. Not saying I still wouldn't enjoy seeing a few of them throat-punched.

Ok, well look me up in 35 years and I might feel badly for poor innocent Trump by then.

[*pally*]

(05-09-2024, 05:05 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: So how much do you think allowing millions of illegal aliens in is costing the US now? Also, Drill Baby Drill brings money to the country.


I want to know what jobs were created and how Americans benefit from these jobs. Also, you can't brag about corporate profnot respits and then turn around and complain about corporate profits. As for the shutdowns, I don't get you guys at all. First, Trump wanted to close things for 2 weeks. But yall said, we're fine, come to Chinatown. Then people start dying, and then they blamed Trump for not acting fast enough. So if the pro-mask wearing left, who openly criticised Red states for staying open are blaming Trump for the shutdowns? I'm so confused and my neck hurts from watching all the flip-flopping.


I probably shouldn't touch this one, because there are only 2 possible outcomes. Me walking away looking like a fool, or, me closing my browser looking like a fool. Either way, the end is predictable.

Do you realize that many of those undocumented folks are working and paying taxes?  Can you imagine what food costs would be like without these workers laboring, on farms, ranches, orchards, and in meat processing facilities?

You can't have it both ways....Trump cannot simultaneously be responsible for the perceived good things during his Presidency and not responsible for the bad things that happened...as much as he would like it to be.

There was zero guarantee that any person who lost their job during COVID would have that job to return to post-COVID.  In fact, a lot didn't come back.  New jobs took their place.  

Trump's lack of leadership and politicization of the pandemic response prolonged the shut down.  

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-09-2024, 05:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump is in court, people who don't like Trump want him to be in court...so I don't see how this applies.  We can say he's guilty all we want, the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" is about the federal government, not private citizens expressing their views on someone's guilt.

If you do not follow, all good. I am not sure what you are getting at it seems.

People, not necessarily you, are putting declaring him guilty before a fair trial.  This is the same thing that was decried when other declared Joe Biden guilty of being bought and paid for with Hunter as the collector.

Two sides of the same coin, with each complaining about the other.

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 05:36 PM)pally Wrote: Do you realize that many of those undocumented folks are working and paying taxes?  Can you imagine what food costs would be like without these workers laboring, on farms, ranches, orchards, and in meat processing facilities?

Illegals would do the jobs Americans either "don't want to do" or can't staff because people aren't having 5+ kids any more and we don't have a glut of young people who can skate by working for $7.50 an hour any more.  Of course, that's why we have to say we can't let them in because they are "rapists and murderers" in between our cries of "innocent until proven guilty" when it suits our case.

(05-09-2024, 05:39 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: If you do not follow, all good. I am not sure what you are getting at it seems.

People, not necessarily you, are putting declaring him guilty before a fair trial.  This is the same thing that was decried when other declared Joe Biden guilty of being bought and paid for with Hunter as the collector.

Two sides of the same coin, with each complaining about the other.

Guilt doesn't even matter when Trump is involved, and I'm not even saying he is guilty.  I'm saying his guilt doesn't seem to matter, but I'd lean towards him being guilty because people who aren't guilty of something tend not to say that they need to be immune from criminal prosecution. Trump also brags about committing criminal acts, such as the whole grab by the p***y thing, or him admitting that he intentionally undervalues his property estimates, that he walked into the dressing room where teen girls were in various stages of undress and so on and so forth.

Again, it just shows how Trump is a completely different human being than the rest of us.  He wasn't kidding when he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight...it's just amusing that unlike most people, that is a statement that is open to interpretation of approval.

But the whole guilty/not guilty thing isn't a fool proof system, it's just the only one we have.  

I'm just using my 1A to put Trump in the same boat as OJ, Michael Jackson, Casey Anthony, and all those pedos caught in the Texas To Catch A Predator sting who got off on a technicality....probably guilty, but meh....got lucky.  I'll call those folks probably murderers and probably kiddie diddlers and I'll avoid them accordingly.  I don't have to let someone who was "not guilty" of fiddling kids into my home and I don't have to change my opinion of Trump based upon this.  With that being said, if any jury is representative of the US population, at least one person on the jury would help Trump murder their own mother, so he can't get a "fair trial" on either side of the yay or nay.

Most folks get as much jail time as they've earned, some folks get jail time for stuff they didn't do, some folks get away with stuff they did.



EDIT - Oh and another amusing thing is that a lot of the "Trump is innocent" argument is based upon the idea that Biden and other agents are engaging in criminal acts to prevent Trump from returning to power, as in they are saying our system is guilty without the requisite criminal convictions.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-09-2024, 05:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Illegals would do the jobs Americans either "don't want to do" or can't staff because people aren't having 5+ kids any more and we don't have a glut of young people who can skate by working for $7.50 an hour any more.  Of course, that's why we have to say we can't let them in because they are "rapists and murderers" in between our cries of "innocent until proven guilty" when it suits our case.



Guilt doesn't even matter when Trump is involved, and I'm not even saying he is guilty.  I'm saying his guilt doesn't seem to matter, but I'd lean towards him being guilty because people who aren't guilty of something tend not to say that they need to be immune from criminal prosecution. Trump also brags about committing criminal acts, such as the whole grab by the p***y thing, or him admitting that he intentionally undervalues his property estimates, that he walked into the dressing room where teen girls were in various stages of undress and so on and so forth.

Again, it just shows how Trump is a completely different human being than the rest of us.  He wasn't kidding when he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight...it's just amusing that unlike most people, that is a statement that is open to interpretation of approval.

But the whole guilty/not guilty thing isn't a fool proof system, it's just the only one we have.  

I'm just using my 1A to put Trump in the same boat as OJ, Michael Jackson, Casey Anthony, and all those pedos caught in the Texas To Catch A Predator sting who got off on a technicality....probably guilty, but meh....got lucky.  I'll call those folks probably murderers and probably kiddie diddlers and I'll avoid them accordingly.  I don't have to let someone who was "not guilty" of fiddling kids into my home and I don't have to change my opinion of Trump based upon this.  With that being said, if any jury is representative of the US population, at least one person on the jury would help Trump murder their own mother, so he can't get a "fair trial" on either side of the yay or nay.

Most folks get as much jail time as they've earned, some folks get jail time for stuff they didn't do, some folks get away with stuff they did.



EDIT - Oh and another amusing thing is that a lot of the "Trump is innocent" argument is based upon the idea that Biden and other agents are engaging in criminal acts to prevent Trump from returning to power, as in they are saying our system is guilty without the requisite criminal convictions.

Too close to see the forest is seems. Tons of the same things falls towards Biden. I am not saying what you're stating about DJT is off, only that there are many similarities that apply to Biden as well.

I disagree about your jail time statement as well.  There needs to be a lot of justice reform, but that is a whole different topic.

All good.

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 06:58 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Too close to see the forest is seems. Tons of the same things falls towards Biden. I am not saying what you're stating about DJT is off, only that there are many similarities that apply to Biden as well.

I disagree about your jail time statement as well.  There needs to be a lot of justice reform, but that is a whole different topic.

All good.

I'm not here to defend or bring up Biden so much as point out that the defense of Trump, much like the people who said OJ was "innocent" is a critique of a crooked justice system, not so much any actual statements regarding the case or the evidence at hand.  Keep in mind a lot of folks are saying Trump shouldn't even be subject to a trial since he was the president and/or since he's running for president.  You and I talking innocent until proven guilty is almost quaint since a lot of folks think Trump shouldn't even be required to be investigated for anything he does.

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts
if you have the law on your side, pound the law
if you have neither, pound the table


Trump's pounding the hell out of the table.  A lot of people are saying he's pounding the table harder than we've ever seen before.

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2024, 05:36 PM)pally Wrote: Do you realize that many of those undocumented folks are working and paying taxes?  Can you imagine what food costs would be like without these workers laboring, on farms, ranches, orchards, and in meat processing facilities?

Food was cheaper before we let them in. So, not a strong argument.

Quote:You can't have it both ways....Trump cannot simultaneously be responsible for the perceived good things during his Presidency and not responsible for the bad things that happened...as much as he would like it to be.

I agree with this Pally. Although, I do feel he was attacked on every flank by the left and the media. Everything he did was reported bad. 

Quote:There was zero guarantee that any person who lost their job during COVID would have that job to return to post-COVID.  In fact, a lot didn't come back.  New jobs took their place.  

I'm not sure what your talking about. Are you referring to "The Great Resignation?" I'm confused because if this is it, all those jobs lost were not replaced, they were still there, but left vacant. There is still a shortage in many fields. 

Quote:Trump's lack of leadership and politicization of the pandemic response prolonged the shut down.  

I don't know what he did that was so wrong?  Any judgment corrections for a POTUS during a pandemic are hindsight 20/20 and very easy to criticize. The whole world didn't know what to do, so he did his best, with the information he was provided. He spearheaded the development of the vaccine and opened the checkbook to find something to help end this thing. If Biden had done this, he would have received praise.  

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2024, 05:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, well look me up in 35 years and I might feel badly for poor innocent Trump by then.

Not trying to be a jerk. Seriously. Sometimes, your snarky swing and misses are exhausting. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 07:43 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not trying to be a jerk. Seriously. Sometimes, your snarky swing and misses are exhausting. 

I thought it was a pretty reasoned response given that your post was expressing a prior desire for execution.  The playbook for responses to something like that is pretty narrow.

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2024, 07:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I thought it was a pretty reasoned response given that your post was expressing a prior desire for execution.  The playbook for responses to something like that is pretty narrow.

I wasn't joking. Many of these men did not enlist. And even if they did, it was because of patriotism, carrying on the family legacy, etc.  They were drafted and served instead of going to jail. They didn't deserve any of the disrespect they received. I can't even attempt to think of the horror some of these soldiers went through. I served with many Vietnam vets. Heck, they trained me or had a hand in it, because many were reaching close to retirement age. I love the guys I served with. It's a brotherhood. They were not treated fairly. But that's a thread of its own. I was not attempting humor or snarkiness. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 08:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I wasn't joking. Many of these men did not enlist. And even if they did, it was because of patriotism, carrying on the family legacy, etc.  They were drafted and served instead of going to jail. They didn't deserve any of the disrespect they received. I can't even attempt to think of the horror some of these soldiers went through. I served with many Vietnam vets. Heck, they trained me or had a hand in it, because many were reaching close to retirement age. I love the guys I served with. It's a brotherhood. They were not treated fairly. But that's a thread of its own. I was not attempting humor or snarkiness. 

And I've said before that I had a different perspective on that because my ol' man did what his country asked him to and when he got back as soon as he let his hair grow to an "unacceptable length" the old country-lovin' patriots "knew" that he was an America-hating commie who ran and hid when his draft number came up.

Yea what you are talking about sucks too.  Forgive my ire, but the "love of the military" becoming this bi-partisan thing where you already know that you are going to lecture me on how veterans were treated because I lean left is just unsurprising and disappointing.  On the other hand, if my ol' man were alive today he'd hate Trump, but he'd also admit that he can see why the upper crust of fortunate sons would consider those who served to be suckers.

Much like Christianity, it's disappointing to see that we've allowed politicians to turn appreciation of the military into simple us vs them talking point.

[HarleyDog]

(05-09-2024, 08:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And I've said before that I had a different perspective on that because my ol' man did what his country asked him to and when he got back as soon as he let his hair grow to an "unacceptable length" the old country-lovin' patriots "knew" that he was an America-hating commie who ran and hid when his draft number came up.

Yea what you are talking about sucks too.  Forgive my ire, but the "love of the military" becoming this bi-partisan thing where you already know that you are going to lecture me on how veterans were treated because I lean left is just unsurprising and disappointing.  On the other hand, if my ol' man were alive today he'd hate Trump, but he'd also admit that he can see why the upper crust of fortunate sons would consider those who served to be suckers.

Much like Christianity, it's disappointing to see that we've allowed politicians to turn appreciation of the military into simple us vs them talking point.

Your father has 100% of my respect, and I'm sorry for your loss.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-09-2024, 07:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not here to defend or bring up Biden so much as point out that the defense of Trump, much like the people who said OJ was "innocent" is a critique of a crooked justice system, not so much any actual statements regarding the case or the evidence at hand.  Keep in mind a lot of folks are saying Trump shouldn't even be subject to a trial since he was the president and/or since he's running for president.  You and I talking innocent until proven guilty is almost quaint since a lot of folks think Trump shouldn't even be required to be investigated for anything he does.

If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts
if you have the law on your side, pound the law
if you have neither, pound the table


Trump's pounding the hell out of the table.  A lot of people are saying he's pounding the table harder than we've ever seen before.

Now you are playing games.

There is absolutely "lawfare" at foot with DJT, and the timing is no coincidence. What does OJ have to do with anything? The fixation is odd.

If you want to pound facts, state them and tell be what you are stating. The right could easily do this with Joe Biden's memory, mental acuity, and record of him being forgetful, and well meaning. The last parts should put him out of office.

If the law is on your side, we are figuring that out now.  Someone campaigned on putting DJT in jail, not exactly an unbiased source.

For the last, that is what both sides are doing, and what I also noted. I am certain DTJ is guilty of multiple crimes. He has multiple character flaws. The problem is the left throws everything at the wall, no matter how crazy, and engages is overcharging and charge stacking, as opposed to sticking to what is simple and provable, and DJT likely skates because they are overzealous and too aggressive.

Hopefully it end soon, but it will likely go on four more years, regardless of who wins.

[*Nately120*]

(05-09-2024, 09:56 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Now you are playing games.

There is absolutely "lawfare" at foot with DJT, and the timing is no coincidence

Trump committed this potential crime in 2016, so there was no time to bring charges that wouldn't have been politically abhorrent since he's spent the last 8 years as the president, or as the GOP candidate for president, and after 2024 he's either again going to be the president or likely running for president.

When should this case have been brought for it to be declared totally A-ok and kosher?  I just don't see it.

(05-09-2024, 09:56 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: If the law is on your side, we are figuring that out now.  Someone campaigned on putting DJT in jail, not exactly an unbiased source.

Our system has DA as an elected position, which requires running on cracking down on this and that.  Some DA's run on breaking up gangs, some run on being harder/easier on drug offenses, some run on this and that and so on and so forth.  If the law is after you, it's up to you to not break the law.

So the DA campaigned on putting Trump in jail and the people have spoken.  Lordy, a politician doing as the voters wish?  What a concept.  Trump should have committed all his crimes in Arkansas if he wanted a free pass.


And I brought up OJ because like OJ Trump is being defended by putting "the corrupt and biased system that is out to get the defendant" on trial.  I'm not lumping you in with the "witch hunt" folks, but the general defense of Trump is that the system is corrupt and targeting him, which sounds pretty OJ-adjacent to me.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(05-09-2024, 10:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump committed this potential crime in 2016, so there was no time to bring charges that wouldn't have been politically abhorrent since he's spent the last 8 years as the president, or as the GOP candidate for president, and after 2024 he's either again going to be the president or likely running for president.

When should this case have been brought for it to be declared totally A-ok and kosher?  I just don't see it.



Our system has DA as an elected position, which requires running on cracking down on this and that.  Some DA's run on breaking up gangs, some run on being harder/easier on drug offenses, some run on this and that and so on and so forth.  If the law is after you, it's up to you to not break the law.

So the DA campaigned on putting Trump in jail and the people have spoken.  Lordy, a politician doing as the voters wish?  What a concept.  Trump should have committed all his crimes in Arkansas if he wanted a free pass.


And I brought up OJ because like OJ Trump is being defended by putting "the corrupt and biased system that is out to get the defendant" on trial.  I'm not lumping you in with the "witch hunt" folks, but the general defense of Trump is that the system is corrupt and targeting him, which sounds pretty OJ-adjacent to me.

I get you are not tossing me into the witch hunt group, just  do not see how anyone can believe DJT is getting a fair trial or admit the timing is suspicious at best.

Similarly, not going to argue it, because, sadly, no one ever changes their minds here and DJT is a polarizing man.

Not lumping you in the TDS group.

[Arturo Bandini]

(05-10-2024, 08:03 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I get you are not tossing me into the witch hunt group, just  do not see how anyone can believe DJT is getting a fair trial or admit the timing is suspicious at best.

Similarly, not going to argue it, because, sadly, no one ever changes their minds here and DJT is a polarizing man.

Not lumping you in the TDS group.

I do agree about the unfairness. Anyone else would be in jail already.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-09-2024, 04:21 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Innocent until proven guilty is what the country is about, no matter how filthy, evil, or devious the defendant may be.


I started reading the thread in hopes of finding out if Stormy was going to try and pay DJT the court order $500k in Hunter Biden finger paintings. 


Or did their value tank as bad as Truth Social, so now they're like Confederate money?

More likely will be lap dance tokens and VIP passes. Barron's graduation party is going to be lit!