Swiss deny citizenship to Muslim girls who balked at swimming with boys

[GMDino]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/28/swiss-deny-citizenship-muslim-girls-who-balked-swimming-boys/86469658/

Quote:GENEVA — In the latest move to deny citizenship to those who balk at Swiss culture, authorities rejected the naturalization application of two Muslim girls who refused to take school swimming lessons because boys were present.


The girls, ages 12 and 14, who live in the northern city of Basel, had applied for Swiss citizenship several months ago, but their request was denied, Swiss media reported Tuesday.

The girls, whose names were not disclosed, said their religion prevents them from participating in compulsory swimming lessons with males in the pool at the same time. Their naturalization application was rejected because the sisters did not comply with the school curriculum, Basel authorities said.
“Whoever doesn’t fulfill these conditions violates the law and therefore cannot be naturalized,” Stefan Wehrle, president of the naturalization committee, told TV station SRF on Tuesday.

The case shows how those who don’t follow Swiss rules and customs won't become citizens, even if they have lived in the country for a long time, are fluent in one of the national languages — German, French or Italian — and are gainfully employed.

In April, members of an immigrant family in the Basel area were denied citizenship because they wore sweatpants around town and did not greet passersby — a sure sign that they were not sufficiently assimilated, the naturalization board claimed.

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Another recent case sparked widespread outrage in Switzerland when two Muslim brothers refused to shake hands with their female teacher, also citing religious restrictions. Shaking hands with a teacher is a common practice in Swiss schools.

After that incident was widely publicized, authorities suspended the naturalization request from the boys’ father, an imam at the Basel mosque.

Muslim students face $5K fine if they refuse Swiss teachers' handshakes

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/25/swiss-authorities-overule-teacher-handshake-ban/84899900/]
The swimming case involving the two girls is the first to deny naturalization applications for not complying with a school program, setting precedence for future cases, Wehrle said.

This is not the first time Switzerland’s Muslim community has stirred controversy over swimming lessons. In 2012, a family was fined $1,500 for forbidding their daughters to participate in swimming classes.

The matter eventually ended up in the Supreme Court, which ruled that no dispensations from swimming lessons should be made on religious grounds.
In Switzerland, unlike in the United States and many other countries, integration into society is more important for naturalization than knowledge of national history or politics. Candidates for citizenship must prove that they are well assimilated in their communities and respect local customs and traditions.

In Switzerland, local town or village councils make initial decisions on naturalization applications. If they decide a candidate is not an upstanding member of the community, the application will be denied and not forwarded to canton (state) and federal authorities for further processing.

That’s what happened in 2014 to Irving Dunn, an American who has lived in Switzerland for nearly 40 years. He was denied Swiss citizenship because he could not name any of his Swiss friends or neighboring villages, authorities said.

“The applicant’s answers have shown that his motive for naturalization is not about integration but about the personal advantages it offers,” the naturalization commission ruled.

Dunn did not deny the charge, telling the English-language news service, The Local, "It can be expected that persons mainly want personal advantages from citizenship," such as the right to vote and live indefinitely in Switzerland.

Soooo....which "American customs" should we enforce before we allow citizenship?

[BmorePat87]

Next time listen to your teachers.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Is it their law? I'm not clear on this since it doesn't say but there is a fine for not "Shaking Hands" with the teacher.

Eh, who cares? It's Switzerland and not the United States.

[masterpanthera_t]

Swiss culture and especially history, being different than the U.S., I don't have a problem with their not granting citizenship rights based on what they feel is best for their society. The fact that these families have been given residency privileges is sufficient IMO. The reasons for rejecting seem very minor (maybe because they're not allowing certain exemptions on religious grounds, especially due to things that don't seem to be very serious to me to begin with), but, again if they are enforcing these rules "equally" and with discretion in "good faith", then I can only say that they are doing things which are right for their country and they have no obligation to take a foreign culture into account. Because U.S history and culture is different I don't think we could do the same thing here, on such minor reasons, unless we can clearly show that it's an existential threat to our principles and/or country. And by that I mean constitutional principles. With freedom of religion being a right here, this wouldn't stand up in America.

[Rotobeast]

(07-05-2016, 10:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/28/swiss-deny-citizenship-muslim-girls-who-balked-swimming-boys/86469658/



Soooo....which "American customs" should we enforce before we allow citizenship?

Whatever we force on our current citizens.

[Benton]

(07-05-2016, 11:46 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Whatever we force on our current citizens.

That's pretty much along my thinking. If we require everyone to know algebra, have a 2.0 gpa and know how to dance the Charleston... then everyone has to know algebra, have a 2.0 gpa and know how to dance the Charleston. Religion shouldn't factor into that.

[NATI BENGALS]

Maybe we should be making all the little fattys take swim classes too.

[BFritz21]

(07-05-2016, 12:14 PM)Benton Wrote: That's pretty much along my thinking. If we require everyone to know algebra, have a 2.0 gpa and know how to dance the Charleston... then everyone has to know algebra, have a 2.0 gpa and know how to dance the Charleston. Religion shouldn't factor into that.

I agree but then then the problem comes in with freedom of religion.

It's all ridiculous and they should be forced to do all of the same things as everyone else, but it's one of the loopholes in having the freedoms that being a citizen entails.  

It's one of the downfalls of this country, IMO, but there's not much you can do about it without causing a huge shitstorm.  

Eventually, it will literally be like this with almost everything and almost everything will be challenged for violating some type of religious freedom or personal freedom.

[BFritz21]

This is taking it to an extreme but just plays into my previous post in that I think you should be forced to follow the rules of the country and abide by the standards set to enjoy the freedoms, not the other way around (you don't get the freedoms before following the rules and standards set-forth by the country).

[Benton]

(07-05-2016, 04:35 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree but then then the problem comes in with freedom of religion.

 

I'm not exactly arguing, but it's a little different.

Freedom of religion allows you to practice your beliefs, but it doesn't (in most cases) give you a free pass on stuff you don't like to do. Even if your reason for not doing it is religious based.

Most religious people could argue they don't have to pay state or federal taxes if they tithe, but that wouldn't get them out of April. Paying taxes is covered by numerous laws. But that's different than opting not to say the pledge of allegiance because of a religious belief, since saying the pledge is not required by law or statute.

In this case, a physical fitness requirement wasn't met. I don't know a lot about their legal or education systems, but it's not really that much different than a school here flunking someone because they're Baptist and decided they didn't have to listen to a female principal. The flunked student would still be flunked.

[BmorePat87]

Freedom of Religion is one of the downfalls of this country?

[Au165]

(07-05-2016, 05:30 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Freedom of Religion is one of the downfalls of this country?

Apparently

[Millhouse]

The Swiss are definitely strict about who they will allow to become citizens. Glad the article included the American that lived there 40 years and was denied it because he was basically a loner there. So it isnt just because the girls are Muslim. And if a Muslim or Christian or Buddhist has a problem with the Swiss on this, then move to another country. When in Rome do as the...

[*bfine32*]

(07-05-2016, 05:38 PM)Millhouse Wrote: The Swiss are definitely strict about who they will allow to become citizens. Glad the article included the American that lived there 40 years and was denied it because he was basically a loner there. So it isnt just because the girls are Muslim. And if a Muslim or Christian or Buddhist has a problem with the Swiss on this, then move to another country. When in Rome do as the...

This is where I'm at with this. If you want to be a citizen of a country you must follow its mandates. How hard is it?

[McC]

(07-05-2016, 10:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/28/swiss-deny-citizenship-muslim-girls-who-balked-swimming-boys/86469658/



Soooo....which "American customs" should we enforce before we allow citizenship?

This is very simple.  You don't want to follow their rules, don't go there.  

[GMDino]

(07-05-2016, 05:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is where I'm at with this. If you want to be a citizen of a country you must follow its mandates. How hard is it?

And which mandates, as I asked, are required to be an American citizen?

[NATI BENGALS]

Eating bacon. And unafraid to show off your body no matter how hideously obese it may be.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-05-2016, 07:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: And which mandates, as I asked, are required to be an American citizen?

An odd question to ask in a thread about Swiss naturalization.  A thread you started I might add.

[GMDino]

(07-05-2016, 10:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An odd question to ask in a thread about Swiss naturalization.  A thread you started I might add.

Thinking outside the box a bit here SSF...

It is in relation to all the threads about banning "certain" immigrants for "certain" reasons.

Given this story from Switzerland how would we apply it here?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-05-2016, 10:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: Thinking outside the box a bit here SSF...

It is in relation to all the threads about banning "certain" immigrants for "certain" reasons.

Given this story from Switzerland how would we apply it here?

The main proponent of that has been given the axe.  My only requirements would be learn the language and follow the mores/laws.