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folks, no longer a need to worry!
President Trump has issued a strongly worded letter!
Anyone old enough to remember how Obama was railed on for his failures with foreign policy? (Mostly, rightfully so.) Trump makes Obama look like a foreign policy genius.
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Looks like Pence likes eating Turkey as much as he does Oranges.
He got a deal to stop the tragedy that Trump started and is slobbering all over DJT for his "leadership" in ending what he started.
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Trump agrees with the ethnic cleansing going on.
His "truce" is to allow the Kurds to be shuffled out of where Turkey wanted them out anyway.
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So if I have read right:
-Turkey already violated an almost identical "ceasefire" from earlier this year
-Turkey was met with more resistance than they had hoped and couldn't proceed any further anyways
-Turkey agreed to stop fighting for 5 days if the Kurds ("terrorists" as they keep calling them when speaking about this agreement) leave
-Turkey essentially gets to annex this land
-The US has dismantled their ability to monitor a "ceasefire"
-The "ceasefire" is just a 5 day break
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(10-17-2019, 06:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So if I have read right:
-Turkey already violated an almost identical "ceasefire" from earlier this year
-Turkey was met with more resistance than they had hoped and couldn't proceed any further anyways
-Turkey agreed to stop fighting for 5 days if the Kurds ("terrorists" as they keep calling them when speaking about this agreement) leave
-Turkey essentially gets to annex this land
-The US has dismantled their ability to monitor a "ceasefire"
-The "ceasefire" is just a 5 day break
Yes, except you didn't thank Trump enough.
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Thanks for the thoughtful answers, 6.
Here's my thoughts on some of yours, if you are interested.
(10-16-2019, 07:51 PM)6andcounting Wrote: We ally with and send all kinds of money to Pakistan. We also simultaneous didn't trust them enough to have them help with Bin Laden. We armed the Syrian rebels in the civil war against Assad. John McCain compared them to the founding fathers that fought England. They became ISIS. We partnered with them because they helped us fight a common enemy. Being the locals - they knew the land, culture, language and probably way more about the enemy than any drone could tell us.
Pakistan is a broken state, but in a unique way. The civilian gov has repeatedly tried to be a good international citizen, but it cannot control the military, which at times works at cross purposes with the elected gov. Neither the civilian government nor the military can control their Intel services and their clandestine operations, which include support for US enemies. Still, the state, in part, was indispensable in the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. US forces in A-stan were supplied from land routes through Pakistan. etc. The P-intel was supporting AQ and others in Pakistan, sure, but its military was killing hundreds in the tribal areas and interdicting the flow of weapons and recruits (sometimes).
The Kurds, on the other hand, are not a state but an ethnic group, thousands of whom have fought shoulder to shoulder with thousands of individual US military members over the last 3 decades. To repeat--THOUSANDS of American ground troops personally know and trust THOUSANDS of Kurdish soldiers and commanders on a one-to-one basis. Kurdish soldiers in the field have bled in the same trenches as American. There has simply been no more reliable partner in the Middle East. Not even ISRAEL. The Kurds, at present, have NO AFFILIATION with ISIS or Al Qaeda, whom they have been killing for the last decade.
Actually, ISIS was not formed from Syrian rebels we helped, but from a nucleus of former Saddam military. Because of the Syrian civil war, they had a vacuum in which to operate. Obama was frequently criticized for NOT helping Syrian resistance precisely because he could not know in whose hands US weapons might end up. So far as I know, we did not "partner" with ISIS. We, with the Kurds, destroyed 85% of them in Syria.
On "being the locals." Kurds have been one of our (and Israels) primary source of intel on terrorist and Iranian activity in the Levant. When we leave them behind, we are also leaving behind our eyes and ears in the region. If we have to go back in the future, we may be punching blind. And we will have to go back if ISIS reconstitutes itself, almost a 100% given now that Kurds cannot hold the prison camps.
Final point for the moment--we were in A-stan because Al Qaeda attacked the US from there and will continue to do so where and whenever they can re-constitute. We have ISIS because of a totally unnecessary war with Iraq. I am totally with you in opposing that kind of intervention. Stupid and an example of emotional policy, going from lets get all out of there to let's kill them all and then back to lets get all out. Remember that Obama gave into pressure to "get the troops back home," and ISIS filled that vacuum.
So I am also with you on the importance of diplomacy. But as things stand now, we have to prevent the re-consolidation of these groups. That means some military presence at least, and maintaining friends and allies.
We just ditched our truest ally, left our comrades-in-arms exposed to Turkish air power, and confused the hell out of our allies. If two years from now Americans are again dying from internet-radicalized ISIS/Al Qaeda followers in the US or terrorist attacks on Americans abroad, we will probably have to go back in again. Without our friends. We won't be leading allies; we'll be paying VERY EXPENSIVE MERCENARIES who know they can only trust the money now.
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At his rally last night in Texas DJT compared the ethnic cleansing that he approved in Turkey to letting two kids fight in the school yard.
I liked this response:
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(10-17-2019, 06:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So if I have read right:
-Turkey already violated an almost identical "ceasefire" from earlier this year
-Turkey was met with more resistance than they had hoped and couldn't proceed any further anyways
-Turkey agreed to stop fighting for 5 days if the Kurds ("terrorists" as they keep calling them when speaking about this agreement) leave
-Turkey essentially gets to annex this land
-The US has dismantled their ability to monitor a "ceasefire"
-The "ceasefire" is just a 5 day break
In a phone call, and without consultation with State, Defense, or his NSC or Congress, Trump gave Turkey the green light to ethnic-cleanse some 400 miles of border territory.
The following disaster and international outcry prompted Trump to then "deal" with Erdogan. Hence the "very powerful" letter and top negotiator Pence on the spot. And Trump imposed some US tariffs on Turkish steel--mild economic sanctions.
Now the deal is in. The Kurds get a 5 day cease fire--time to ethnically cleanse themselves from the region. A good deal when you consider the Kurds are "no angels."
The Turks get everything they want and are still going to do everything they were going to do. Plus sanctions will end. Then a meeting in Moscow with Putin, who will be helping Erdogan fill the vacuum left by the US pull out.
So the result: a tremendous diplomatic victory for the US and the Kurds, as well as a "great day" for the Turks. Great for the world.
"Greatness" all around, basically.
I think we can all agree that no one but Trump could have pulled this off.
He got rounds of cheers in Dallas last night for this diplomatic feat.--Got US TROOPS OUT OF THE ME!
They said it couldn't be done but he did it.
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(10-18-2019, 01:23 PM)GMDino Wrote:
Of course there is good will on both sides.
300 Kurds were happy to die defending their homes while continuing to contain and feed some 10,000 sworn enemies of the US, plus 60,000 of their dependents. Or maybe 59,000 if you subtract recent escapees in the chaos.
And Trump's green light followed by childish personal threats have made renewed our alliance with Turkey--stronger now than ever before.
ISIS is "double-secured" now by Kurdish guards and the people bombing the Kurdish guards.
The world respects us again.
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There are still a few who think their boy Graham isn't a sniveling weasel I guess.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-usa-graham/syria-critic-lindsey-graham-reverses-stance-says-trumps-policy-could-succeed-idUSKBN1WZ0I3
Quote:Syria critic Lindsey Graham reverses stance, says Trump's policy could succeed
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham, who has been one of the most vocal critics of President Donald Trump’s decision to move U.S. troops out of northeastern Syria, said on Sunday he now believed “historic solutions” were possible.
In an interview with Fox News, Graham said a conversation he had with Trump over the weekend had fueled his optimism that a solution could be reached where the security of Turkey and the Kurds was guaranteed and fighters from Islamic State contained.
“I am increasingly optimistic that we can have some historic solutions in Syria that have eluded us for years if we play our cards right,” Graham said on “Sunday Morning Futures.”
Graham said Trump was prepared to use U.S. air power over a demilitarized zone occupied by international forces, adding that the use of air power could help ensure Islamic State fighters who had been held in the area did not “break out.”
Senator Jim Inhofe, a Republican who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, said on Saturday that Trump understood the need for the United States to maintain air power in the region.
“The U.S. must retain air power to keep the pressure on ISIS, prevent our adversaries Russia and Iran from exploiting this situation and protect our partners on the ground,” he said in a statement. ISIS is an acronym for Islamic State.
Graham also said he believed the United States and Kurdish forces long allied with Washington could establish a venture to modernize Syrian oil fields, with the revenue flowing to the Kurds. “President Trump is thinking outside the box,” Graham said of Trump’s thinking on oil.
“The president appreciates what the Kurds have done,” Graham added. “He wants to make sure ISIS does not come back. I expect we will continue to partner with the Kurds in eastern Syria to make sure ISIS does not re-emerge.”
Graham, referring to the Kurdish fighters in the region, previously warned that Trump’s decision to pull out U.S. troops would lead to their “destruction.”
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(10-22-2019, 11:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Syria critic Lindsey Graham reverses stance, says Trump's policy could succeed
In an interview with Fox News, Graham said a conversation he had with Trump over the weekend had fueled his optimism that a solution could be reached where the security of Turkey and the Kurds was guaranteed and fighters from Islamic State contained.
“I am increasingly optimistic that we can have some historic solutions in Syria that have eluded us for years if we play our cards right,” Graham said on “Sunday Morning Futures.”
Graham said Trump was prepared to use U.S. air power over a demilitarized zone occupied by international forces, adding that the use of air power could help ensure Islamic State fighters who had been held in the area did not “break out.”
Air power will keep the imprisoned ISIS fighters in detention. No doubt about that.
MEANWHILE The consequences of abandoning our surest allies in the Middle East, the very lynch pin of the Levant, continues to snarl ME policy as our not so sure "allies" abandon us. Like we were KURDS or something . . . .
Iraq: American Troops Leaving Syria Cannot Stay in Iraq
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2019-10-22/iraq-american-troops-leaving-syria-cannot-stay-in-iraq
BAGHDAD (AP) — U.S. troops leaving Syria and heading to neighboring Iraq do not have permission to stay in the country, Iraq's military said Tuesday as American forces continued to pull out of northern Syria after Turkey's invasion of the border region.
The statement appears to contradict U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who has said that under the current plan, all U.S. troops leaving Syria will go to western Iraq and the military would continue to conduct operations against the Islamic State group to prevent its resurgence in the region.
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Trump is literally live right now saying that they were only able to negotiate a "deal" with Turkey because the US allowed Turkey to slaughter the Kurds for three days.
Literally.
Also we have a great economy...because that is pertinent to the discussion I guess?
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Well, USA basically handed territories to Russia.
That's new.
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(10-24-2019, 07:10 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Well, USA basically handed territories to Russia.
That's new.
I think when Trump says "we won" he means Russia. 
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(10-24-2019, 07:10 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Well, USA basically handed territories to Russia.
That's new.
A victory for the Russia, Assad, Iran axis in the region.
Russia and Turkey are the ones who cut "the deal."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/world/middleeast/turkey-russia-syria.html
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(10-24-2019, 09:15 AM)Dill Wrote: A victory for the Russia, Assad, Iran axis in the region.
Russia and Turkey are the ones who cut "the deal."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/world/middleeast/turkey-russia-syria.html
All roads don't just lead to Putin.
And they didn't have to fight just one second.
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Absolutely anything to defend Trump.
And what's funny is I would have guessed they sold their souls long before this.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-cornyn-defends-trump-kurds_n_5db1a0f3e4b0131fa99a9fba
Quote:Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) defended President Donald Trump’s widely condemned decision to withdraw American troops from northern Syria, claiming it was an appropriate move if Turkey was “trying to ethnically cleanse” U.S.-allied Kurdish forces in the region.
“If Turkey was planning on coming into northern Syria and trying to ethnically cleanse the Kurds, and U.S. troops were caught in the middle, I am not completely convinced that it was a bad idea to get them out of harm’s way,” Cornyn told reporters Wednesday, reported The Dallas Morning News.
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He added, however, that he wishes there had been “more consultation with Congress and others and our allies in the region.”
The Republican lawmaker’s comments came just hours after Trump announced he was lifting sanctions against Turkey, which agreed to a cease-fire against the Kurds in northeast Syria. Trump took credit for the deal, though Democrats and some Republicans say his decision to upend American foreign policy in the region enabled Turkey to launch a military offensive against the Kurds earlier this month.
Fighting between Turkey and the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, the main U.S. ally in the fight against the self-declared Islamic State in Syria, has resulted in the deaths of dozens of people and the displacement of thousands more.
During the fighting, Turkish-backed Arab fighters killed Hevrin Khalaf, the head of a Kurdish political party. A militant group posted a gruesome video of her execution online.
Foreign policy experts warned Trump’s decision to essentially abandon the Kurds could lead to their genocide by Turkey, which considers them to be terrorist insurgents. The House overwhelmingly passed a resolution last week to condemn the president’s move.
But Trump patted himself on the back Wednesday, claiming the U.S. and “nobody else” was responsible for avoiding all-out war in northern Syria.
“We have done them a great service and we’ve done a great job for all of them,” Trump said of Turkey, Syria and the Kurds. “And now, we’re getting out. ... Let someone else fight over this long-bloodstained sand.”
Cornyn told reporters Wednesday that things need to “play out a little bit” before he could say whether he felt Trump’s decision to lift sanctions was the right move.
Asked Thursday about his “ethnically cleanse” remark, Cornyn appeared to walk it back some.
“I wasn’t very clear,” he told HuffPost. “If the U.S. isn’t committed to stay in Syria, getting our troops out of harm’s way where they might be injured or killed during the inevitable conflict between the Turks and the Kurds was something I was concerned about.”
It's always fun to watch them walk back their actual words. No one mistakenly says "ethnic cleansing" sir. Or defends it.
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Well boys don't worry, we are sending tanks to protect those oil fields in Syria! Our long standing Middle East stance of Oil>Blood is living on strong.
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