TOTAL INCOMPETENCE

[*michaelsean*]

(06-14-2017, 04:13 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Bingo.

Oh please.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-14-2017, 04:23 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh please.  

I always find it funny when I am probably one of the most ideologically liberal people on the board and I am like "let's simmer down now on the Trump et al. hate."

[hollodero]

(06-14-2017, 03:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't know the full context of the statement since it wasn't provided here, but what I can tell you is that from the beginning of March to now there has been a lot of things that have happened in the investigation. I have spoken with staffers from DC before, and they have told me that because of the pace of many things, the moment you stop getting briefed on a topic you have already fallen behind. Compound that with us not knowing the extent to which he was briefed on it to begin with, and there are a ton of unknowns, there.

I don't have a hard time believing that his knowledge of the investigation and the Russian meddling extends beyond media reporting at all, just based on my second-hand information on the intelligence and investigative communities.

It would be understandable if he, the Attorney General, weren't up do date on newest intelligence about Russian interference in the election because of his recusal. Sure, all your points understood. But that's not what I was referring to. He claimed he NEVER recieved any kind of briefing on said interference, never ever, not during the transition, not in the one and a half month he served as head of Justice in the administration. Never anything from anyone about Russia. The "never" part is the startling one.

How could an Attorney General not know more than you and me, even before his recusal?

Or asked otherwise, how comes Trump and his most loyal underlings seem to just not acknowledge the Russian interference. In case of Trump, not acknowledging it at all. In case of Sessions, pretending an unbelievable amount of ignorance just so he doesn't have to talk bad about Russia. 

(Or Tillerson claiming "the world wants the US and Russia to get along better", which is NOT what the world wants - givng them a free pass on undermining our democracies. This has nothing to do with the matter at hand, directly, but it made me howling mad and fits the pattern of not attacking Putin.)

[Belsnickel]

(06-14-2017, 05:07 PM)hollodero Wrote: It would be understandable if he, the Attorney General, weren't up do date on newest intelligence about Russian interference in the election because of his recusal. Sure, all your points understood. But that's not what I was referring to. He claimed he NEVER recieved any kind of briefing on said interference, never ever, not during the transition, not in the one and a half month he served as head of Justice in the administration. Never anything from anyone about Russia. The "never" part is the startling one.

How could an Attorney General not know more than you and me, even before his recusal?

For a counter-intelligence investigation, the community will brief officials on what they see as relevant to them to do their job. If Sessions was at all a part of the focus (which may have been because of his meetings) or if the IC did not deem it necessary to divulge the information to him, then they wouldn't have. He also would not have received any briefings prior to his confirmation by the Senate. This is why I say it is completely feasible for him to have never received a briefing on the matter.

That being said, it would also not surprise me if he did receive information on it and ignored it. If that is the case and it is found out, then this will be an interesting turn of events.

(06-14-2017, 05:07 PM)hollodero Wrote: Or asked otherwise, how comes Trump and his most loyal underlings seem to just not acknowledge the Russian interference. In case of Trump, not acknowledging it at all. In case of Sessions, pretending an unbelievable amount of ignorance just so he doesn't have to talk bad about Russia. 

(Or Tillerson claiming "the world wants the US and Russia to get along better", which is NOT what the world wants - givng them a free pass on undermining our democracies. This has nothing to do with the matter at hand, directly, but it made me howling mad and fits the pattern of not attacking Putin.)

They don't acknowledge it because Trump won't, and Trump won't because his ego is too fragile. Look at the big deals he made out of crowd size and the popular election result. The mentions of these things in the media made him feel inferior, they damaged his ego, and so he had to push back. The idea that Russia interfered in the election cheapens his win in his mind and so he must push back against it. Even though we know Russia interfered, and that it wasn't a huge impact on the election results by all accounts, this is still how it affects him.

[hollodero]

(06-14-2017, 05:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: For a counter-intelligence investigation, the community will brief officials on what they see as relevant to them to do their job.
If Sessions was at all a part of the focus (which may have been because of his meetings) or if the IC did not deem it necessary to divulge the information to him, then they wouldn't have. He also would not have received any briefings prior to his confirmation by the Senate. This is why I say it is completely feasible for him to have never received a briefing on the matter.

Sure... but I feel you can't reduce the Russian interference topic to the ongoing investigation. At all the hearings senators state it in drastic words in opening statements, Comey did the same thing - they warned about Russia and said it's a huge deal and everyone needs to be aware of their past and possible future deeds and how dangerous it is.
I have a hard time believing that it was said, ah, the Attorney General doesn't need any kind of specific details on that one. It just doesn't make sense to me.

(06-14-2017, 05:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That being said, it would also not surprise me if he did receive information on it and ignored it. If that is the case and it is found out, then this will be an interesting turn of events.

That's where my money's at, for said reasons.

(06-14-2017, 05:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They don't acknowledge it because Trump won't, and Trump won't because his ego is too fragile. Look at the big deals he made out of crowd size and the popular election result. The mentions of these things in the media made him feel inferior, they damaged his ego, and so he had to push back. The idea that Russia interfered in the election cheapens his win in his mind and so he must push back against it. Even though we know Russia interfered, and that it wasn't a huge impact on the election results by all accounts, this is still how it affects him.

That's an interesting point, I never saw it like that, although it's quite an obvious take.
Only thing slightly opposing it: Trump did some times talk about interference, immedately adding that it could have been anyone, Russia, China, anyone, he wouldn't know. So it seems to me there's some added interest in protecting Russia in the public perception by making it appear like it's just one of a huge range of possibilities that they're behind it. As if that wasn't settled at all.


(I have to add, though I'm generally very opposed to conspiracies, in this case I can't quite see the more harmless explanations for Trump's extremely odd Russia policies. But I try to keep that out of my logic when making arguments. Just logically speaking, the more grim explanations can't be ruled out with certainty, that I think is safe to say.)

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-14-2017, 04:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I always find it funny when I am probably one of the most ideologically liberal people on the board and I am like "let's simmer down now on the Trump et al. hate."

Paraphrasing here.
Do you believe Russia interfered in the election?

I believe so but only know what i have read in the paper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/sessions-announces-recusal-from-russia-related-probes-denies-misleading-congress.html



“I have recused myself in the matters that deal with the Trump campaign.”

Sooo.... He recused himself from the campaign investigation. Not the entirety of Russias interference. Unless of course he is saying the Russian interference was directly involved with the campaign. 

39 states had election systems hacked. Shouldnt the guy leading the DoJ who fired the guy running the investigation know a little more than what he reads in the paper about something like this?

Maybe i am confused as to what an AG is. I thought he was basically like the head of law enforcement? Is law enforcement in any way responsible for protecting our democracy?

[Belsnickel]

(06-14-2017, 07:36 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Paraphrasing here.
Do you believe Russia interfered in the election?

I believe so but only know what i have read in the paper.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/sessions-announces-recusal-from-russia-related-probes-denies-misleading-congress.html



“I have recused myself in the matters that deal with the Trump campaign.”

Sooo.... He recused himself from the campaign investigation. Not the entirety of Russias interference. Unless of course he is saying the Russian interference was directly involved with the campaign. 

39 states had election systems hacked. Shouldnt the guy leading the DoJ who fired the guy running the investigation know a little more than what he reads in the paper about something like this?

Maybe i am confused as to what an AG is. I thought he was basically like the head of law enforcement? Is law enforcement in any way responsible for protecting our democracy?

Because of the crossover with the overall Russian interference and Trump campaign collusion, it is likely he is considered to be recused from the matter in its entirety.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-14-2017, 10:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Because of the crossover with the overall Russian interference and Trump campaign collusion, it is likely he is considered to be recused from the matter in its entirety.

He recused himself from the campaign investigation because he was a part of the campaign. 

I can understand that.

But how am I supposed to feel confident in my new AG when apparently he has no desire to learn about foreigners meddling in our election?

I would imagine there is information avaiable to the AG about Russian meddling that doesnt involve the campaign. 

According to just sbout everybody it is a BFD. Yet our newly appointed AG knows only what he read in the paper.

So he lied in his confirmation hearing under oath about meeting with Russians. And now as AG has displayed zero interest in enforcing laws broken when Russia interferred. 

[Vlad]

(06-14-2017, 10:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He recused himself from the campaign investigation because he was a part of the campaign. 

I can understand that.

But how am I supposed to feel confident in my new AG when apparently he has no desire to learn about foreigners meddling in our election?

I would imagine there is information avaiable to the AG about Russian meddling that doesnt involve the campaign. 

According to just sbout everybody it is a BFD. Yet our newly appointed AG knows only what he read in the paper.

So he lied in his confirmation hearing under oath about meeting with Russians. And now as AG has displayed zero interest in enforcing laws broken when Russia interferred. 

Give CNN  fake news a rest.

It is a fact that US officials meet with ambassadors frequently .

Yes Sessions met with the Russians as did 7 democrats at one point or another.
 
Frankens question if Sessions had contact with the Russians IN RELATION TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN...not if Sessions ever had contact with the Russians. It is common knowledge that politicians meet with ambassadors . 

“He was asked during the hearing about communications between Russia and the Trump campaign — not about meetings he took as a senator and a member of the Armed Services Committee,” - Sarah Flores, Sessions spokesperson.

Care to read the actual exchange and tell me Sessions lied?


Franken: OK. CNN has just published a story and I'm telling you this about a news story that's just been published. I'm not expecting you to know whether or not it's true or not. But CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, "Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump." These documents also allegedly say quote, "There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

Sessions: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have -- did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.

[xxlt]

(06-14-2017, 04:14 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Boehner territory is nearby me.

It's a date! I'll be the guy in a dress driving a welfare cadillac without a gun. Oh, wait, how will you tell me from all the other libtarded men in your neighborhood? I know, I'll bring my limited edition Gloria Steinem and Jane Fonda autographed abortion pike pole. That always makes me stand out in a crowd. See ya soon!

[ballsofsteel]

Mr.President, I just want to thank you for given me the honor to serve you and for keeping your word to the American people. It is truly a blessing to work for the greatest president we ever had. You are better than best, you are the greatest person to ever be born. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-15-2017, 03:05 AM)Vlad Wrote: Give CNN  fake news a rest.

It is a fact that US officials meet with ambassadors frequently .

Yes Sessions met with the Russians as did 7 democrats at one point or another.
 
Frankens question if Sessions had contact with the Russians IN RELATION TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN...not if Sessions ever had contact with the Russians. It is common knowledge that politicians meet with ambassadors . 

“He was asked during the hearing about communications between Russia and the Trump campaign — not about meetings he took as a senator and a member of the Armed Services Committee,” - Sarah Flores, Sessions spokesperson.

Care to read the actual exchange and tell me Sessions lied?


Franken: OK. CNN has just published a story and I'm telling you this about a news story that's just been published. I'm not expecting you to know whether or not it's true or not. But CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, "Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump." These documents also allegedly say quote, "There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

Sessions: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have -- did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1AXyDn1x8

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-15-2017, 03:05 AM)Vlad Wrote: Give CNN  fake news a rest.

It is a fact that US officials meet with ambassadors frequently .

Yes Sessions met with the Russians as did 7 democrats at one point or another.
 
Frankens question if Sessions had contact with the Russians IN RELATION TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN...not if Sessions ever had contact with the Russians. It is common knowledge that politicians meet with ambassadors . 

“He was asked during the hearing about communications between Russia and the Trump campaign — not about meetings he took as a senator and a member of the Armed Services Committee,” - Sarah Flores, Sessions spokesperson.

Care to read the actual exchange and tell me Sessions lied?


Franken: OK. CNN has just published a story and I'm telling you this about a news story that's just been published. I'm not expecting you to know whether or not it's true or not. But CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, "Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump." These documents also allegedly say quote, "There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government."
Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

Sessions: Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have -- did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.

He joined the Trump campaign in February 2016. 

The two meetings we know about were in july and september.

In the middle if a presidential race. With trump praising the russians. Wikileaks releasing emails. And the same guy kislyak having already met with now president trump in a closed door meeting at the white house. I guarantee the number one political story in our country came up. Especially considering our intelligence agencies have told us russia meant to help trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/02/us/politics/sessions-russia-timeline.html?_r=0
So yes he lied. According to factual dates. 

Or we can just look at the body language like in that video there ^. And play it with no sound and still assume that dude just lied out his ass.

[GMDino]

(06-15-2017, 12:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He joined the Trump campaign in February 2016. 

The two meetings we know about were in july and september.

In the middle if a presidential race. With trump praising the russians. Wikileaks releasing emails. And the same guy kislyak having already met with now president trump in a closed door meeting at the white house. I guarantee the number one political story in our country came up. Especially considering our intelligence agencies have told us russia meant to help trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/02/us/politics/sessions-russia-timeline.html?_r=0
So yes he lied. According to factual dates. 

Or we can just look at the body language like in that video there ^. And play it with no sound and still assume that dude just lied out his ass.

And it's not even about having a meeting...it is as Nati said...lying about having them.  Then denying what they talked about but remembering it wasn't the one thing they should not have talked about.

Sessions, Kushner, others have all "forgot" that they had these meetings until they were reminded.  Then they forgot everything except that they didn't do anything wrong.

Sad.

[xxlt]

:heart: to Belsnickel for continuing to say, "Calm down," even as he points out more and more reasons people should be alarmed about the incompetence of our President and all of his sycophants. How low must your self esteem be to ally yourself with such a d-bag (as Trump, not Belsnickel)? He demands loyalty and the only people he holds in more contempt that all the "losers" that hate him are the super losers who are his loyalists. The Art of the Deal was a lousy book but he could right a great one called The Art of Cutting the Legs Out From Under Your Allies. Literally, nobody does it better. And they come back from more, blinded by greed or rock bottom self esteem or a toxic combination of the two.

************************************************

Trump holds the government in contempt.
Trump holds the media in contempt.
Trump can't figure out why he has so few supporters in government and media.
'tis a puzzlement.

Speaking of which:

When I was a boy, world was better spot
What was so was so, what was not was not
Now, I am a man, world have changed a lot
Some things nearly so, others nearly not

There are times I almost think
I am not sure of what I absolutely know
Very often find confusion
In conclusion, I concluded long ago

In my head are many facts
That, as a student, I have studied to procure
In my head are many facts
Of which I wish I was more certain, I was sure
Is a puzzlement

What to tell growing son?
What for instance, shall I say to him of women?
Shall I educate him on the ancient lines?
Shall I tell the boy as far as he is able
To respect his wives and love his concubines?

Shall I tell him everyone is like the other
And the better of the two is really neither?
If I tell him this I think he won't believe it
And I nearly think that I don't believe it either

When my father was a king
He was a king who knew exactly what he knew
And his brain was not a thing
Forever swinging to and fro and fro and to

Shall I, then be like my father
And be willfully unmovable and strong?
Or is it better to be right?
Or am I right when I believe I may be wrong?

Shall I join with other nations in alliance?
If allies are weak, am I not best alone?
If allies are strong with power to protect me
Might they not protect me out of all I own?

Is a danger to be trusting one another
One will seldom want to do what other wishes
But unless someday somebody trust somebody
There'll be nothing left on earth excepting fishes

There are times I almost think
Nobody sure of what he absolutely know
Everybody find confusion
In conclusion, he concluded long ago

And it puzzle me to learn
That tho' a man may be in doubt of what he know
Very quickly he will fight
He'll fight to prove that what he does not know is so

Oh, sometimes I think that people going mad
Ah, sometimes I think that people not so bad
But not matter what I think, I must go on living life
As leader of my kingdom, I must go forth
Be father to my children and husband to each wife
Etcetera, etcetera and so forth

If my Lord in Heaven Buddha, show the way
Everyday I try to live another day
If my Lord in Heaven Buddha, show the way
Everyday I do my best for one more day

But is a puzzlement

Songwriters
Oscar Hammerstein Ii;Richard Rodgers

Read more: The King And I - A Puzzlement Lyrics | MetroLyrics

http://www.metrolyrics.com/a-puzzlement-lyrics-the-king-and-i.html

Now, there is a little flap about a current run of Julius Caesar[i] but can someone more familiar than I with [i]The King and I tell me if that is the more instructive narrative about this presidency?


****************************************


Super Trump's denial of wrong doing when he clearly has done wrong fits a life long pattern (anyone who read about him before or during the election knows this) in litigation where he almost always loses but pays a settlement and "admits no wrong doing." This strategy was most recently illustrated in the Trump U case. I am fully confident that he thought firing Comey would end the election investigation, and he has said as much. I am also fully confident he now believes Robert Mueller is the only person who cares about the investigation of what he knows he and his team did wrong and he has had discussions with his personal lawyer to ask, "How big a check will it take to make Mueller go away? And, do we wait until the charges are filed or can we make an offer now?"

It has worked his whole life, and he is going to soil himself when it doesn't work this time.

Maybe that is why Belsnickel keeps saying calm down? The train is loaded and pulling out of the station but it may be a long and memorable journey to the final destination.