TV viewership down 13% NFL Debut

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 12:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm being intellectually dishonest but him saying "people like Betsy DeVos" are profiting off of school choice is just fine and dandy. got it.

Please don't try to be a referee on here. It's not your job and you're not good at it.

Betsy DeVos has invested millions in companies associated with non-public education.

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 01:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Betsy DeVos has invested millions in companies associated with non-public education.

While we're at it, let's acknowledge her investments in companies that own for-profit colleges and refinance federal school loans into private loans. 

I'm not a referee. I prefer fact-checker. or fact-knower, but I'll be humble and say fact-checker. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 01:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: While we're at it, let's acknowledge her investments in companies that own for-profit colleges and refinance federal school loans into private loans. 

I'm not a referee. I prefer fact-checker. or fact-knower, but I'll be humble and say fact-checker. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 01:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Betsy DeVos has invested millions in companies associated with non-public education.

Define "companies associated with non-public education". I'm especially interested in the ones that would funnel monies from a parent's voucher for school choice into DeVos' bank account. Please Mr. Humble Fact "Knower"?

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 01:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Define "companies associated with non-public education". I'm especially interested in the ones that would funnel monies from a parent's voucher for school choice into DeVos' bank account. Please Mr. Humble Fact "Knower"?

Companies that run private schools or provide services to them. Prior to her post, she invested in companies that provided tools and services to charter and private schools. This was when she was donating to Republicans to reform Detroit's public school system into a hybrid charter system without any state oversight, even as the new charter schools were not making progress. 

So "people like DeVos" who are invested in these companies and spend money to support politicians who will increase private and charter school attendance receive a higher rate of return as  those schools require more of their services.


On a related note, she also invested in private preschools while refusing to answer on her stance of universal Pre-K during her hearings. Since entering her post, she has promoted government funds to send kids to... private preschools. 


Seriously, just look stuff up first. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 01:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote:

Did you honestly think a teacher who is her biggest critic here wouldn't know what he's talking about?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 01:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Companies that run private schools or provide services to them. Prior to her post, she invested in companies that provided tools and services to charter and private schools. 

What companies? What tools and services?

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 01:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: What companies? What tools and services?

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3388827-DeVos-Betsy-nominee-financial-disclosure.html

You're free to look at them. I'll highlight a few.

ny2 provides online digital tools for special education and promotes charter schools, hosting and participating in charter school conferences while giving advice on how to procure charters. 

Her and her husband started the West Michigan Aviation Academy, a charter that receives about $5m a year in public funding for students. 

She was also invested in Kindercare.


The most concerning is the $1-$5m mystery investment into Albert Co-Investment Holdings which she only noted was related to "education" and did not elaborate, though the tons of other examples are plenty to drive home the point. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-22-2020, 11:58 AM)PhilHos Wrote: School choice doesn't mean that all funding will be spent on private schools. There are many good public schools out there and they could be the recipient of the choice of many parents.


Don't ask me. Ask oncemoreuntothejmbreech why he thinks private schools are automatically better than public schools.

I didn’t state all public funding would go to private schools nor did I state private schools are better.

I wrote public funds should be spent on public schools.

If parents choose to send their child to a private school then they should pay for it. But, that doesn’t absolve of their obligation to fund public schools in their area.

Think of it like a retirement plan. Just because you have a 401k and both Roth and non-Roth IRAs that doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay Social Security tax.

And just because you pay for employer sponsored BCBS health insurance doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay your Medicare taxes.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-22-2020, 12:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm being intellectually dishonest but him saying "people like Betsy DeVos" are profiting off of school choice is just fine and dandy. got it.

Please don't try to be a referee on here. It's not your job and you're not good at it.

Her background profiteering off students is no secret. Why do you think I used her as an example? What about her boss’ involvement with predatory for profit practices which defrauded students?

[Von Cichlid]

(09-21-2020, 05:56 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Not sure what post I said it in, but my sister is an 11/12 Physics and Chemistry teacher in a major city in WI.  She said she doesn't even bother going into the breakroom any more because it's all anti-Trump and very liberal.  As I also said, she voiced her opinion once and the hounds of hell were released upon her.  lol.  Not allowed to have a different opinion and all that.

But, I will say, in the little town I live in (2000 pop.) I am very happy with the teachers and overall education my children are receiving.  4th and 7th grade.  We are also far removed from anything resembling a city.

In my experience, most conservatives in educational institutions are typically in the math, physics, and engineering departments.  There are still democrats, but they are usually of the moderate type.   

[NATI BENGALS]

(09-22-2020, 01:46 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Companies that run private schools or provide services to them. Prior to her post, she invested in companies that provided tools and services to charter and private schools. This was when she was donating to Republicans to reform Detroit's public school system into a hybrid charter system without any state oversight, even as the new charter schools were not making progress. 

So "people like DeVos" who are invested in these companies and spend money to support politicians who will increase private and charter school attendance receive a higher rate of return as  those schools require more of their services.


On a related note, she also invested in private preschools while refusing to answer on her stance of universal Pre-K during her hearings. Since entering her post, she has promoted government funds to send kids to... private preschools. 


Seriously, just look stuff up first. 

Be careful. If you point out anymore facts he doesn't like he may turn to alternative facts and go full blown trumpet. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3388827-DeVos-Betsy-nominee-financial-disclosure.html

You're free to look at them. I'll highlight a few.

Thank you for the information. Let's take a look.

(09-22-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: ny2 provides online digital tools for special education and promotes charter schools, hosting and participating in charter school conferences while giving advice on how to procure charters. 

They also provide these tools to public schools as well. 

(09-22-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Her and her husband started the West Michigan Aviation Academy, a charter that receives about $5m a year in public funding for students. 

But is she still involved with them? Honestly, is she? I don't know.

(09-22-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: She was also invested in Kindercare.

Which is a daycare.

(09-22-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The most concerning is the $1-$5m mystery investment into Albert Co-Investment Holdings which she only noted was related to "education" and did not elaborate, though the tons of other examples are plenty to drive home the point. 

Sure, it's concerning and I appreciate the information but you have failed to show that a voucher program would line her pockets. Maybe the Aviation Academy if she's still a part of it or gets money from them.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 07:27 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If parents choose to send their child to a private school then they should pay for it. But, that doesn’t absolve of their obligation to fund public schools in their area.

Clearly, we disagree on this. I personally think if people live in a failing school district, they should be given an opportunity to put their kids in a better school.

[BmorePat87]

(09-23-2020, 04:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Thank you for the information. Let's take a look.


They also provide these tools to public schools as well. 


But is she still involved with them? Honestly, is she? I don't know.


Which is a daycare.


Sure, it's concerning and I appreciate the information but you have failed to show that a voucher program would line her pockets. Maybe the Aviation Academy if she's still a part of it or gets money from them.

It took you 24 hours to come up with this lame response?

edit: I'll explain why.


You move goal posts and you ignore evidence after begging for information readily available.

I showed you evidence of the company promoting charters. She had to get rid of her investments, so of course she no longer has an investment in her husband's school. I explained preschool already. She refused to say if she supported universal pre-k (in public school) and has promoted govt tuition for private preschool.

I showed plenty. You're being ridiculous.

[fredtoast]

(09-23-2020, 04:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Clearly, we disagree on this. I personally think if people live in a failing school district, they should be given an opportunity to put their kids in a better school.

Unlike you I am concerned about the kids that will be left behind in a failing school.

So I say we try to fix the problems.  That way all of the kids will benefit instead of just the ones who have the means to do to another school.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-23-2020, 04:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Thank you for the information. Let's take a look.


They also provide these tools to public schools as well. 


But is she still involved with them? Honestly, is she? I don't know.


Which is a daycare.


Sure, it's concerning and I appreciate the information but you have failed to show that a voucher program would line her pockets. Maybe the Aviation Academy if she's still a part of it or gets money from them.

This is my comment that started this . . .

(09-21-2020, 03:42 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If you're funneling public funds to private schools so people like Betsy DeVos can profit, yes.

“People like” Betsy DeVos based upon her history of profiting off students.

Do you understand the difference between people like Betsy DeVos and specifically Betsy DeVos?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-23-2020, 04:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Clearly, we disagree on this. I personally think if people live in a failing school district, they should be given an opportunity to put their kids in a better school.

I agree if parents want to send their kids to private or religious schools they should absolutely be able to do so. In fact, they are able to do so. But, that doesn’t mean they don’t have to pay their taxes for public schools anymore than the citizens without kids don’t have to pay any school taxes because they don’t have kids in public school.

I’ll repeat it, public taxes earmarked for public schools should be spent on public schools. Period.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2020, 04:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Clearly, we disagree on this. I personally think if people live in a failing school district, they should be given an opportunity to put their kids in a better school.

They have the opportunity to work harder and move to a better school district. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 06:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It took you 24 hours to come up with this lame response?

Right. That's what it was. Nothing else could POSSIBLY be the answer.

(09-23-2020, 06:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You move goal posts and you ignore evidence after begging for information readily available. 

False. Just becuase you say it doesn't make it true.

(09-23-2020, 06:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I showed you evidence of the company promoting charters. She had to get rid of her investments, so of course she no longer has an investment in her husband's school. I explained preschool already. She refused to say if she supported universal pre-k (in public school) and has promoted govt tuition for private preschool. 

The goal post was about lining Betsy Devos' pockets with school choice vouchers. You have failed in that regard so now you attack me personally CLAIMing that I'm moving the goal posts and taking over 24 hours to respond.