TV viewership down 13% NFL Debut

[Dill]

(09-14-2020, 03:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If you want we can.   I think Mill said something along the lines of being able to know enough about an opposing view to argue it.  But it could have been someone else who said it, and I could be wrong about what they said.  

Demonstrating that you understand the position you argue against has been a standard since Plato,
so in one form or another it has been said by many.

But you are not wrong. Mill argues to that effect in Chapter 2 of On Liberty, part of a critique of censorship/defense of free thought.

He takes it a step further adding that one doesn't "know" one's own views if one doesn't understand objections to them.

[Luvnit2]

More bad news, Sunday night down almost 30%. Keep in mind many are going stir crazy from governors keeping them on house arresy essentially.

https://www.westernjournal.com/early-numbers-show-ratings-plunge-got-even-worse-nfl-sunday/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2020-09-14&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR1O51Yslz2IigBDtvSEkZ29Ioky6F6aRdGQORTKegbuBs_6wbA2s_8fwO0

I will say I found the Bengals/Chargers pre-game a lot better than any NBA protest. Again, the NFL then ruined it by bringing it up at various times during the game.

Why ruin our experience? Maybe a lot of fans strongly disagree with too much exposure to this issue.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-14-2020, 04:18 PM)Dill Wrote: Demonstrating that you understand the position you argue against has been a standard since Plato,
so in one form or another it has been said by many.

But you are not wrong. Mill argues to that effect in Chapter 2 of On Liberty, part of a critique of censorship/defense of free thought.

He takes it a step further adding that one doesn't "know" one's own views if one doesn't understand objections to them.

Four semesters of philosophy and I get a “you’re not wrong”. Better than I would have expected.

[Dill]

(09-14-2020, 07:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Four semesters of philosophy and I get a “you’re not wrong”.  Better than I would have expected.

Well, I'm impressed--that you studied philosophy for four semesters and that you remembered Mill's argument. 

[*michaelsean*]

(09-14-2020, 07:49 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, I'm impressed--that you studied philosophy for four semesters and that you remembered Mill's argument. 

No choice on the philosophy at the time, but there were parts I liked. I remember liking the parts about Mill I understood.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(09-14-2020, 11:45 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sure,

Abortion, immigration, climate change, 2A, SCOTUS picks are some big ones for me.

Trump paid for sex partners on the side to have abortions
Trump hires non-documented workers
Good luck denying science
I've been voting since 1986 and I've heard how "they're trying to take our guns" for almost 35 years now.
SCOTUS . . . LOL. Please tell me that you're not one of these that thinks that Roe v Wade will be struck down by a conservative Supreme Court. They finally got a majority and then Roberts moved to become the swing vote, why? Because they have you engaged. If they remove Roe v Wade, then many Christians and Catholics will no longer have to hold their noses while they look the other way to ignore the scummy parts of the GOP. They can finally look elsewhere. That's why they'll never strike it down. They would need to find something else to get religious people engaged again. That's also why they won't get a wall built. The battle for the wall or abortion is far more valuable in political capitol than actually solving the issue. They need you to keep turning out to vote so they can keep pushing for more tax cuts for the rich.

[Belsnickel]

Found this for the meme thread, but I thought this would be a good place for it, instead.

[Mickeypoo]

Sad that people think the National Anthem and our Military are political.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 08:33 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sad that people think the National Anthem and our Military are political.

Everything is political.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-15-2020, 08:36 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Everything is political.

I disagree.  The National Anthem is a unifying song for all Americans.  The military is the protecting force for our Country and all Americans.

[masonbengals fan]

https://www.history.com/news/why-the-star-spangled-banner-is-played-at-sporting-events

Found this yesterday. Rather than political it was patriotic. People have chosen to turn it into a divisive issue. In my mind and I want to think the vast majority it is still unifying. People have the right to stand, people have the right to kneel. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should be doing it.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 10:07 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I disagree.  The National Anthem is a unifying song for all Americans.  The military is the protecting force for our Country and all Americans.

Eh, the Star Spangled Banner has some controversy surrounding it based in verses not typically sung but that are a part of the original song, as well as Key's background as a wealthy slave-owner who helped put Taney on the SCOTUS. The military is also not seen as a "protecting force" by all and it is inherently political based on the political appointees that are the leadership of the branches.

[*Nately120*]

(09-14-2020, 06:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why ruin our experience? Maybe a lot of fans strongly disagree with too much exposure to this issue.

Why let the NFL ruin your experience?  Trump is president, therefore this is the land of "No one cares about your feelings."  We sent a message in 2016 when we elected him and that message is "Shut up, snowflake."

Just watch football, or don't.  If the politics hurt you, you're just being too soft.  Sorry, not sorry but people need to stop whining. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 10:07 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I disagree.  The National Anthem is a unifying song for all Americans.  The military is the protecting force for our Country and all Americans.

Folks who try to be offended will always find a way.

But as a veteran I have no problem with ceasing the National Anthem at professional domestic sporting events

[*Nately120*]

(09-15-2020, 10:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks who try to be offended will always find a way.

But as a veteran I have no problem with ceasing the National Anthem at professional domestic sporting events

And the best thing about that is that both sides can blame the other side for ruining it.  Neo-cons turned the military and the anthem and flag/patriotism into the bait they use to hook people on their jingoistic class warfare, and liberals responded to it by pouting and saying they are sick of right-wing propaganda being forced upon them.

We just wreck everything, don't we?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-15-2020, 08:36 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Everything is political.

Then you can't remove politics from sport even if you stop playing the national anthem.

Checkmate! 

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 10:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Then you can't remove politics from sport even if you stop playing the national anthem.

Checkmate! 

Oh, I don't disagree.

That's a path you don't want me going down, though. The amount of politics involved in your (read:everyone's) daily life is staggering, but most people have very little understanding of it all. That being said, those things aren't as overtly political as patriotic displays, which are also much more political than most people realize.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-15-2020, 11:04 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I don't disagree.

That's a path you don't want me going down, though. The amount of politics involved in your (read:everyone's) daily life is staggering, but most people have very little understanding of it all. That being said, those things aren't as overtly political as patriotic displays, which are also much more political than most people realize.

Trust me when I say I am 100% cognizant of how much politics affects my life, especially professionally.  As to patriotic displays, they are political, but they are equal opportunity political displays.  Neither party has a monopoly on patriotism and both have gone through their less than enthusiastic about the nation's current state phases.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 11:30 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Trust me when I say I am 100% cognizant of how much politics affects my life, especially professionally.  As to patriotic displays, they are political, but they are equal opportunity political displays.  Neither party has a monopoly on patriotism and both have gone through their less than enthusiastic about the nation's current state phases.

Well, professionally, yes. But what about in your home? Building codes, zoning ordinances, regulations on toilet flows, shower heads, lightbulbs, stormwater runoff, regulations on the phone in your pocket, etc., etc. When you start listing things, people realize what is lurking there, but people don't think about all the politics involved in the most mundane things in their every day lives. Now, you and I, as well as some other folks on here, have more obvious political impacts thanks to our chosen professions, but truthfully our jobs aren't impacted more by politics than others, we are just more aware of it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-15-2020, 08:33 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sad that people think the National Anthem and our Military are political.

You gotta be kidding me with this. Military intervention is a political solution in its most extreme form to a political problem real or imagined.

What was the military protecting you from when we invaded Iraq?