TV viewership down 13% NFL Debut

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 07:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Unlike you I am concerned about the kids that will be left behind in a failing school.

So I say we try to fix the problems.  That way all of the kids will benefit instead of just the ones who have the means to do to another school.

Hey, I'm open to fixing the schools too in whatever way works. But, if the choice is move your kid to a better school or them getting a poor education in a failing school, I'd be on the side of helping the kids get into a better school.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 11:46 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Right. That's what it was. Nothing else could POSSIBLY be the answer.


False. Just becuase you say it doesn't make it true.


The goal post was about lining Betsy Devos' pockets with school choice vouchers. You have failed in that regard so now you attack me personally CLAIMing that I'm moving the goal posts and taking over 24 hours to respond.

That wasn’t the goal post and I pointed it out in post #337 above. But, it is a verifiable fact she has profited off students in the past and “people like Betsy DeVos” ( my original comment) still do.

If parents want to send their kids to a private school no one is stopping them from doing so. But, they still have to pay their public school taxes just like the citizens who don’t have any kids in school at all.

Public school funds for public schools. Period.

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2020, 11:46 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Right. That's what it was. Nothing else could POSSIBLY be the answer.


False. Just becuase you say it doesn't make it true.


The goal post was about lining Betsy Devos' pockets with school choice vouchers. You have failed in that regard so now you attack me personally CLAIMing that I'm moving the goal posts and taking over 24 hours to respond.

You're literally arguing that me pointing out timestamps is both a "personal attack" and a "claim". 

I understand that you spoke from a position of ignorance on DeVos' history of investments, but once you were educated on it, you shouldn't have been ashamed of your past ignorance to the point where you kept validating it despite knowing you were wrong. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-24-2020, 12:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're literally arguing that me pointing out timestamps is both a "personal attack" and a "claim". 

I understand that you spoke from a position of ignorance on DeVos' history of investments, but once you were educated on it, you shouldn't have been ashamed of your past ignorance to the point where you kept validating it despite knowing you were wrong. 

And continuing the personal attacks. That's a bold move, Cotton. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 11:48 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Hey, I'm open to fixing the schools too in whatever way works. But, if the choice is move your kid to a better school or them getting a poor education in a failing school, I'd be on the side of helping the kids get into a better school.

You can’t fix a public school by siphoning off it’s public funding to a private school which is already privately funded.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-24-2020, 12:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You can’t fix a public school by siphoning off it’s public funding to a private school which is already privately funded.

Maybe, maybe not. I think the theory behind it is that because of the danger of losing funds, failing schools will do everything they can to fix what they can to avoid losing the funding. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-24-2020, 12:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You can’t fix a public school by siphoning off it’s public funding to a private school which is already privately funded.

Aren't some of the poorest and/or worst schools getting the most money per student?

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2020, 01:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Aren't some of the poorest and/or worst schools getting the most money per student?

which is still not enough. 

[Mickeypoo]

(09-24-2020, 01:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: which is still not enough. 

But then why are school systems which are receiving much less money per student able to get their students educated?

I don't believe throwing money at this problem solves anything.  They are already getting more than anyone else and still cannot get the job done.

What is the real root cause of a school system failing it's students?  The teachers, the students?

[GMDino]

(09-24-2020, 01:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Aren't some of the poorest and/or worst schools getting the most money per student?

It depends on the area and where that money is going.

Our district has been giving free lunches to all students for five years now because of the poverty level.  The district is then reimbursed at the end of the year by the state.  So someone could could say "look at all the money you get from the state" when a good chunk is to make sure that kids can have a hot lunch when that might be the only hot meal they get for the day.

Then you have a system where school funding comes from property tax.  Richer the neighborhoods, deeper the tax base, more money to the schools.

One local area is split into a south and north district.  One has all the strip malls and businesses the other is mostly residential.  One has much higher tax revenues.

It is not a perfect science but a more even distribution would help all schools and students with less stress on the locals.  

Unfortunately that will be labeled socialism and screamed down and we'll continue down the same road.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-24-2020, 01:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: It depends on the area and where that money is going.

Our district has been giving free lunches to all students for five years now because of the poverty level.  The district is then reimbursed at the end of the year by the state.  So someone could could say "look at all the money you get from the state" when a good chunk is to make sure that kids can have a hot lunch when that might be the only hot meal they get for the day.

Then you have a system where school funding comes from property tax.  Richer the neighborhoods, deeper the tax base, more money to the schools.

One local area is split into a south and north district.  One has all the strip malls and businesses the other is mostly residential.  One has much higher tax revenues.

It is not a perfect science but a more even distribution would help all schools and students with less stress on the locals.  

Unfortunately that will be labeled socialism and screamed down and we'll continue down the same road.

Good thoughts.

Where I live we provide breakfast and lunch to students who need it.  There are school taxes and then I believe some state funding.  There is a bit of poverty where I live, but crime is very low and the students seem to thrive.  They do really good in school.  So is poverty really the problem?  The parents?  The culture?  The teachers?

If the kids are in class and the teacher is teaching the class, then what is failing?

Complex issue for sure.  It just seems like throwing more money at it is not going to solve the problem.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 12:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe, maybe not. I think the theory behind it is that because of the danger of losing funds, failing schools will do everything they can to fix what they can to avoid losing the funding. 

Is that how the military “rebuilt” itself? With the threat of losing funding to Blackwater (Betsy DeVos’ brother’s mercenaries that do the same jobs as soldiers, but at a much higher cost to tax payers to ensure a profit)?

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2020, 01:22 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: But then why are school systems which are receiving much less money per student able to get their students educated?

I don't believe throwing money at this problem solves anything.  They are already getting more than anyone else and still cannot get the job done.

What is the real root cause of a school system failing it's students?  The teachers, the students?

Poverty is the biggest root cause. Schools in areas with higher levels of poverty have more students coming to school with additional needs and problems the schools are not equipped to address. The students have less supports and interventions outside of school and are less likely to have engaged in educationally enriching activities as young children or during the summer.

Their schools are more likely to have inadequate facilities. They're more likely to be hungry. They're more likely to be identified as having a learning disability. They faced more stress as young children. They're more likely to have medical issues and less likely to have those medical issues treated.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 01:16 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Aren't some of the poorest and/or worst schools getting the most money per student?

Oh, I don’t know how school funding works. That’s just my unpopular opinion based upon not knowing what the hell I’m talking about.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-24-2020, 01:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Poverty is the biggest root cause. 

Is it though?  There is a lot of poverty where I live and not only do we not have a schooling problem we also have very little crime.  Is that because of poverty or because the sheer amount of students overwhelms the school and their ability to have a more personal connection to their students.

Sorry, I see you added more to your original post that I quoted.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 01:37 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Good thoughts.

Where I live we provide breakfast and lunch to students who need it.  There are school taxes and then I believe some state funding.  There is a bit of poverty where I live, but crime is very low and the students seem to thrive.  They do really good in school.  So is poverty really the problem?  The parents?  The culture?  The teachers?

If the kids are in class and the teacher is teaching the class, then what is failing?

Complex issue for sure.  It just seems like throwing more money at it is not going to solve the problem.

Well.

They do really well in school.

[BmorePat87]

(09-24-2020, 01:46 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Is it though?  There is a lot of poverty where I live and not only do we not have a schooling problem we also have very little crime.  Is that because of poverty or because the sheer amount of students overwhelms the school and their ability to have a more personal connection to their students.

Sorry, I see you added more to your original post that I quoted.

I can't speak to anecdotal evidence from a district I don't know, only to national trends. But you often see larger class sizes too, which does cause the issue you pointed too (less relationship building). 

We also need a more representative teacher workforce. Students learn better when they have some teachers who look like them (be it sex or ethnicity). 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 01:46 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Is it though?  There is a lot of poverty where I live and not only do we not have a schooling problem we also have very little crime.  Is that because of poverty or because the sheer amount of students overwhelms the school and their ability to have a more personal connection to their students.

Sorry, I see you added more to your original post that I quoted.

Let’s google “number one cause of poor education in America” and see if we can identify a pattern among the search results.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-24-2020, 01:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I can't speak to anecdotal evidence from a district I don't know, only to national trends. But you often see larger class sizes too, which does cause the issue you pointed too (less relationship building). 

We also need a more representative teacher workforce. Students learn better when they have some teachers who look like them (be it sex or ethnicity). 

I understand.

Interesting thought.  We do have that where I live.  Also quite a few teachers have children in the school system and everybody kinda looks out for everyone else.  We have small class sizes.  20 in a class would be pretty large.  My daughter is in 4th grade and has 15 or 16 kids in her class and there are probably 3 - 5 4th grade classes.  It is one of those true small town communities.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-24-2020, 01:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I can't speak to anecdotal evidence from a district I don't know, only to national trends. But you often see larger class sizes too, which does cause the issue you pointed too (less relationship building). 

We also need a more representative teacher workforce. Students learn better when they have some teachers who look like them (be it sex or ethnicity). 

What? You can’t speak to unsubstantiated qualitative statements based upon a dearth of quantitative data? That’s crazy talk.