Taking a look at Trey Hendrickson's Sacks in 2020

[Essex Johnson]

(03-16-2021, 03:11 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I dont see any way this guy makes it to the 4th year of the deal.  After 3 years we can dump him and pick up 15 mil in cap room.  Most fans will want to move on from this signing after year 2.  Market dictated this signing due to poor planning and it will prove to be a massive overpay.

how is it poor planning when you would have had a worse contract with Lawson ?? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-16-2021, 03:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: how is it poor planning when you would have had a worse contract with Lawson ?? 

Good question Essex.

[grampahol]

IF Hendrickson stays on the same trajectory or even better this is the steal of the century in Bengals talk. Even if he has just one or two good years it's still better than the 30M guaranteed to Lawson.. If he has 4 great seasons then it's a no brainer.. If he's a one year wonder they offload him for cheap.. But this is Mike brown.. If he sucks for four years he'll still get all 60 million.. Welcome to the life of a Bengals fan..It's damned if you do and damned if you don't.. 

[CJD]

(03-16-2021, 02:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Big no to any Steelers tackles. They get away with nonstop holding there, and it doesn't translate to a different team. He'll also be 33.

Would expect Trent Williams to go to a contending team as he's heading into his age 33 season.

Spain was already here, and he was subpar at best.

Leave it to the Bengals to take the best LT prospect seen in quite some time and throw him at guard because they can't even wipe their own ass in FA.

I don't think that's a big deal, honestly. A lot of tackles start off at guard. Whitworth is the most obvious example, but positional flexibility isn't a bad thing. If we need him at tackle, we can always move him back there. But having quality players at all 5 positions is valuable. If you have two good veteran tackles that allows you to put your top 5 pick at guard, that just means 3/5ths of your line is quality at this point and you have a high quality injury security for both tackle positions.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-16-2021, 03:11 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I dont see any way this guy makes it to the 4th year of the deal.  After 3 years we can dump him and pick up 15 mil in cap room.  Most fans will want to move on from this signing after year 2.  Market dictated this signing due to poor planning and it will prove to be a massive overpay.

Yeah, what a scrub. I hate when the Bengals sign a 26 year old coming off of 13 sack seasons on a Super Bowl contender.

Makes me long for the glory days when we signed former 1st round busts like Derrick Harvey and Jamaal Anderson.

Or washed up dudes like James Harrison and AJ Hawk. Them's were the days...

[SunsetBengal]

(03-16-2021, 03:11 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I dont see any way this guy makes it to the 4th year of the deal.  After 3 years we can dump him and pick up 15 mil in cap room.  Most fans will want to move on from this signing after year 2.  Market dictated this signing due to poor planning and it will prove to be a massive overpay.

Not sure why you're so dead set that Hendrickson is gong to be a bust.  Is this because he's White??

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-16-2021, 09:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah, what a scrub. I hate when the Bengals sign a 26 year old coming off of 13 sack seasons on a Super Bowl contender.

Makes me long for the glory days when we signed former 1st round busts like Derrick Harvey and Jamaal Anderson.

Or washed up dudes like James Harrison and AJ Hawk. Them's were the days...

Lol, so true.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-16-2021, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, some want to move on from the signing after minute 2

I don't want to move on from it after 2 minutes and i'm glad to hear about the potential outs but people that are seeing 13.5 sacks and falling over thinking he's going to do it here...there's going to be a lot of disappointed people this time next year. 

[BengalsFanRealist2855]

I'm taking it as he will be another high motor guy the same way Hubbard is,hes not going to be a stud. We have no stud players on defense right now. We have to win games 2005 style with high offense and opportunistic defense. And that's If we signed lawson too. I think it is a upgrade because lawson was kind of injury prone if I remember right and mostly a 3rd down pass rusher with us.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-16-2021, 10:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't want to move on from it after 2 minutes and i'm glad to hear about the potential outs but people that are seeing 13.5 sacks and falling over thinking he's going to do it here...there's going to be a lot of disappointed people this time next year. 

I don't see him getting 13.5 here, but Lawson had what...5.5 last year?

As long as this dude produces that or above, I don't want to hear any complaining from the Lawson crowd.

And before anyone says anything about tEh pReSsUrEs, I'm sure this dude will have a good amount.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(03-16-2021, 09:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not sure why you're so dead set that Hendrickson is gong to be a bust.  Is this because he's White??

Why bring race into it?

I suspect it is more likely to be because his sack totals for the last four years are 2, 0, 4.5 and 13.5. There may be good reasons for that but when it comes to something as volatile as sack numbers that's a likely red flag. Add in that he hasn't been great against the run and that fits the profile of many a bust.

Now I hope he's an ascending player - I note that the Bengals have targeted young players who should still be ascending the last two free agencies rather than players on the wane - but you surely have to acknowledge that this is a player with boom or bust potential rather than a surefire thing.

[MileHighGrowler]

(03-17-2021, 03:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't see him getting 13.5 here, but Lawson had what...5.5 last year?

As long as this dude produces that or above, I don't want to hear any complaining from the Lawson crowd.

And before anyone says anything about tEh pReSsUrEs, I'm sure this dude will have a good amount.

I haven't been a Lawson evangelist, worried that he was the absolute highest priority or anything.  But if Hendrickson comes in and produces the same that Lawson did, that's also nothing to celebrate.  I still think Lou's defensive schemes are more to blame than the players.  The Bengals went into last season with a pretty decent line and it sure never looked like it.  Now we're down Lawson and Dunlap, and quite possibly Geno will join the list as well.  And they've only added Hendrickson at this point (yes, I realize there is still time to address this).  I'd say there's some cause for concern over the state of the DL given where things stand today. 

[Sled21]

(03-17-2021, 03:44 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Why bring race into it?

I suspect it is more likely to be because his sack totals for the last four years are 2, 0, 4.5 and 13.5. There may be good reasons for that but when it comes to something as volatile as sack numbers that's a likely red flag. Add in that he hasn't been great against the run and that fits the profile of many a bust.

Now I hope he's an ascending player - I note that the Bengals have targeted young players who should still be ascending the last two free agencies rather than players on the wane - but you surely have to acknowledge that this is a player with boom or bust potential rather than a surefire thing.

Yeah, his snap count went up each year, and as his count got higher he produced better. He is going to have to play even a higher count here, so I expect his production to continue to increase. He is on the rise....

[Shake n Blake]

(03-17-2021, 04:11 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I haven't been a Lawson evangelist, worried that he was the absolute highest priority or anything.  But if Hendrickson comes in and produces the same that Lawson did, that's also nothing to celebrate.  I still think Lou's defensive schemes are more to blame than the players.  The Bengals went into last season with a pretty decent line and it sure never looked like it.  Now we're down Lawson and Dunlap, and quite possibly Geno will join the list as well.  And they've only added Hendrickson at this point (yes, I realize there is still time to address this).  I'd say there's some cause for concern over the state of the DL given where things stand today. 

I agree, but if Hendrickson is in nearly the exact same situation as Lawson, people who are mad we chose Hendrickson over Lawson can't be mad about Hendrickson outputting the same stats as Lawson.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-17-2021, 03:44 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Why bring race into it?

I suspect it is more likely to be because his sack totals for the last four years are 2, 0, 4.5 and 13.5. There may be good reasons for that but when it comes to something as volatile as sack numbers that's a likely red flag. Add in that he hasn't been great against the run and that fits the profile of many a bust.

Now I hope he's an ascending player - I note that the Bengals have targeted young players who should still be ascending the last two free agencies rather than players on the wane - but you surely have to acknowledge that this is a player with boom or bust potential rather than a surefire thing.

Sean Payton himself attributed T-Rex's sudden ascension to playing at "the correct weight".

https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/article_6c5e3d22-c223-11e9-b6e0-9b8967f8e00c.html

He started to come on strong in 2019, then they massively increased his snaps last season.

It's a natural progression of a young player. He figured things out, got to a good weight, then balled out every time he touched the field.

So it's not really a red flag.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-16-2021, 01:10 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: When it was initially announced that we signed Trey Hendrickson for the same AAV as Carl Lawson, my initial reaction was "Why wouldn't they just offer a little bit more to keep Lawson? Come on! This is a lateral move at best, but I've heard that Trey had a fair number of coverage sacks last year. That won't work on this team!"

After thinking that, I figure I may as well actually look into that to see if it's true.

Here's a video of every sack Trey had last year.

Looking back at each and every one of Trey Hendrickson's 13.5 sacks this season ?

A breakout star on defense ️ pic.twitter.com/tfJufOS9kA

— New Orleans Saints (@Saints) January 26, 2021

I just want to share my thoughts on each of the sacks and see what you all think.

Sack #1 @ 0:00
This was a good rep by Trey. He got around the tackle and avoided the (shitty) chip block by #10). He gets to Brady in about 3 seconds, which is definitely not a coverage sack. You could say "Oh, the defense sniffing out the RB dump off made Brady hold the ball rather than get rid of it, so this shouldn't be a sack" but that's nit picking hardcore. I give Trey full credit for this sack.

Sack #2 @ 0:13
This is a coverage sack. He does get doubled for a short period of time (basically the time it took for the Oline to adjust to what looks like an unintentional stunt),  but this sack developed over about 6 seconds, which is coverage sack #1 all the way.

Sack #3 @ 0:31
He gets stonewalled early, but keeps fighting and gets a clean up sack that was partially created by two other guys breaking down the pocket. Not necessarily his effort that created it, but he was in position to clean it up. Give him half credit, I'd say.

Sack #4 @ 0:46
Quality rep. Beats the LT outright and gets right to the QB, despite being held briefly.

Sack #5 @ 0:52
The whole Chargers line collapsed on this play (as I hear they were prone to do), but this is still a quality rep.

Sack #6 @ 0:59
He was playing from inside on this play and...I kind of hope we don't use him there that often. He is pretty much handled the entire play until the QB scurries out to the sideline. Even then, this should have been a thrown away ball, not a sack. Coverage sack #2.

Sack #7 @ 1:13
This is a decent rep. He gets kind of thrown into the backfield, but he recovers and cleans up when TB is forced to back up into his own LT. Another I'd give half credit for.

Sack #8 @ 1:26
He looks like he jumped Offsides on this play and it wasn't called, but other than that, a good rep.

Sack #9 @ 1:39
Honestly, this is a really bad play by Trey. He looks to be in contain, but then he runs up on Ryan when he sees he's about to throw. Ryan re-directs and, if Ryan weren't old and unathletic (relatively speaking), this is a loss of contain and a huge QB run. Since Ryan is old and unathletic, it is instead a 0 yard sack.

Sack #10 @ 1:51
Quality sack. No notes. He just drives the LT right into Ryan's lap.

Sack #11 @ 1:59
This one is on the edge of a coverage sack. He had a good push and his push kind of threw the LT for a loop (he literally spins haha), but this play took a little over 4 seconds to develop and I just don't know if this happens in Cincinnati often.

Sack #12 @ 2:09
No notes. Quality sack.

Sack #13 @ 2:19
This is a good sack, but I think it's worth noting how insanely deep Mahomes drops back on this pass. If he dropped the standard 5 yards or so, Trey is pushed around the pocket and out of danger by the LT here. But because he drops back 12 yards, the otherwise good re-routing by the LT turns into a sack here. But, to be fair to Trey, he lined up way outside on this play, so they obviously game planned with Mahomes' crazy drop backs in mind.

Sack #14 @ 2:34
And, finally, a sack that looks like it's entirely caused by the blitz. He comes in unblocked and takes the QB down. I can't complain about this play because it was executed to perfection, but I can't help but feel like this wouldn't happen in Cincinnati haha.

So, if we're counting it up, that's 2 coverage sacks, 2 clean up sacks, 1 sack that's kind of on the edge of what I'd consider a coverage sack and 1 really bad play that counted as a sack because Ryan is so slow.

Now, if he produced these 14 sacks and then didn't really provide any other pressure, that'd be concerning. You'd be forgiven for fearing this was an Antwan Odom signing. But, the good news is that, in addition to his 14 sacks, he also had 12 TFL, 25 QB hits and he finished with the third-highest pressure rate (16.3%) in the NFL and was first in the league in third-down pressure rate (25.5%) according to NFL Next Gen Stats.

So, overall, I'm pretty pleased with this signing. I think Bengals fans naturally were hoping we kept Lawson, since we knew he could produce to the level that he did with zero help from his team, and we wonder if Trey relied a little bit too much on the Saints players around him, but you can't blame a player for the success of his teammates. I am hopeful that this guy will be a good player for us for a long time.

He seemed to be lined up on the right side for almost every sack.  Wonder if they are envisioning Hubbard on the left side now?   

One thing in this very brief scouting of him that I will say as a positive:  He rarely took a wide arc outside and took himself out of the play.  He seemed to have a very quick "get off" and then would often punch and cut back inside.  Drove me nuts watching Michael Johnson and Dunlap just take wide arcs and eliminate themselves from the play so many times.  

I remembered scouting him in college and liked him as a potential Bengal.  Hope he continues with his high motor and good health.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-17-2021, 05:27 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He seemed to be lined up on the right side for almost every sack.  Wonder if they are envisioning Hubbard on the left side now?   

One thing in this very brief scouting of him that I will say as a positive:  He rarely took a wide arc outside and took himself out of the play.  He seemed to have a very quick "get off" and then would often punch and cut back inside.  Drove me nuts watching Michael Johnson and Dunlap just take wide arcs and eliminate themselves from the play so many times.  

I remembered scouting him in college and liked him as a potential Bengal.  Hope he continues with his high motor and good health.  

Nice observation, I saw the same thing with Hendrickson. Big reason I didn't like how Dunlap played last season for us was
this very thing. He would over pursue on the edge letting the QB step into a clean pocket cause we had no push in the middle.

Hendrickson seems much more disciplined.