Is this really on the front office?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2020, 02:01 AM)Housh Wrote: Posts like this make me feel like Mike Brown hires agents to post here

Don’t be silly. They’re unpaid interns working for college credit.

[bengaloo]

The FO opened up the checkbook last year and have done things out of character to try and build a good team. I'm taking it easy on them this season.

ZT is a pass happy OC, which a lot of people like these days, especially with the NFL going more towards the college spread type thing. I'm more of a run and stop the run guy, but ZT is not and he's going to call a lot of pass plays. I dont blame Joe getting hurt on this. It was a freak accident.

Turner on the other hand..... He missed on talent evaluation big time. He sticks with guys who get outplayed by others when given a chance. His OL is like musical chairs and he doesnt seem to have a good handle on the best mix for the team. He thinks all guys can play all positions and its simply not true, as we have seen the results of this play out. I'm done with him. Burrow's injury was a freak thing that could happen to anyone, but if any coach on our team can take a slice of credit, its Turner and his musical chairs OL.

The best thing might be to blow it up, get rid of them all and hire a more proven coach to replace ZT, but at the very minimum, Turner and Lou have to go. Those two have no business being anywhere close to this team. They are community college level coaches, imo. They should have been gone yesterday.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-26-2020, 07:55 PM)sonofstat Wrote: However, when ZT was hired there was a view that as rookie head coach gigs go actually he was in a good spot.  

1. Ownership that was loyal - to a fault
2. Cupboard not bare with talent left over from playoff teams - Atkins, Green, Mixon, Dunlap, Boyd, Dunlap, Bates, Eifert, Gio, Hubbard
3. Capable , proven starting QB in Dalton
4. Inherited a stable locker room culture which consistently played hard under Marv even in tough times
5. Was backed by Front office to bring in 'his guys' onto coaching staff...believe only Simmons was a requested carryover
6. Loosened the purse strings and actually been somewhat active in Free agency
7. Low expectation/pressure from a smaller market franchise and media

Even when his team failed miserably in year 1...

7. Sucked so bad  that we got #1 pick in the year a franchise QB/Joe Burrow was consensus first pick

With all the above and with the atrocious 2 year record we are heading towards I really do put this squarely on ZT's door step.

1.  The advantage with loyal to a fault ownership is that if you get off to a rocky start in your first two years they don't fire you. You can't then use this as the number one reason to sack him within 2 years.


2. This was probably fans overrating players. Green and Atkins were genuinely elite players but it turns out injuries have taken their toil and they were no longer the players they once were. The only other probowlers in those listed were Eifert (who was by then already a shadow of his former self) and Dunlap (wrong side of 30). Of the rest named only Gio was on a play-off team.

3. Fair point.

4. Did people other than Fred argue this?

5. Possibly. We know he didn't get his first choice DC, or his second choice, or even his third or fourth choice. When talks broke down how much was that on the Front Office?

6. In his first season they signed 5 free agents - John Miller 3 years $16.5m, BW Webb $10.5m for 3 years, Kerry Wynn  $1.4m for 1 year, Justin Evans $.049m 1 year and John Jerry $0.9m for 1 year. That's the opposite of backing.

7. I don't see this as an advantage, expect perhaps in regards to 1.


If that's your case for why Taylor should go it's weak.

For me the case against Taylor would start with the 2019 draft. The Bengals had 12(?) picks but other than the 11th overall pick they have little to show for it. Drew Sample was a reach in the second round. Pratt in the third round is a disappointment. They traded up for Finley in the 4th and that's now officially a bust - for a supposed QB whisperer that is a terrible indictment on his judgement and coaching. Wren hasn't done anything. They traded back into the 4th for Jordan and that hasn't worked. The two running backs haven't done anything (Anderson was worth the gamble, it didn't work out but I won't hold that against them in the 6th), Davis (6th round) and Brown (7th) couldn't even make the practice squad.

I expect the Bengals hierarchy to look at how much better the 2020 draft was than the 2019 draft. It may be that Zac has learnt lessons from that first draft when they went in underprepared. I suspect ownership will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

But for me it should be Tobin in the hot seat. It was Tobin involved in picking Taylor. It was Tobin who was involved in signing Atkins, Dunlap, Green etc to their contracts. If Zac was inexperienced in 2019 draft, Tobin doesn't have that excuse. It's Tobin who drafted Price, Ross, Ogbuehi. It's Tobin's roster who looked so tired and jaded in need of a rebuild. It's Tobin who kept Finley AND Dolegala on the roster last year; who is carrying two kickers on it this year.

[impactplaya]

Ive been.banging the table for Tobin.to.be replaced for years.
Ive seen better GMs get replaced in past years.
Tobin would have been canned years ago.by any other ownership
But Brown. Values loyalty over winning

[WhoDave72]

(11-27-2020, 12:37 AM)Tony Wrote: What about the scout department? We wander how we miss on so many picks ESP. O-LINE.. We have like 3 scouts... Ridiculous... That right there points to cutting corners and you don't win cutting corners...

Agreed. I feel like a good GM would hire more scouts. It all starts at the top.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-27-2020, 02:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Ive been.banging the table for Tobin.to.be replaced for years.
Ive seen better GMs get replaced in past years.
Tobin would have been canned years ago.by any other ownership
But Brown. Values loyalty over winning

Brown wants to win, he just doesn't know how. 

He's conservative and therefore reluctant to gamble what he has and risk losing those gains. More than winning though he doesn't want to lose. For example Marvin should have gone sooner but what he was afraid of was the new coach coming in and only winning 2 games as Zac did last year and returning to the dark days of the 90s. So faced with a situation where your current coach will win you 6 games but a new coach may win 10 games or may only win 2 games he's disposed to stick than twist and risk returning the Bengals to being a laughing stock and a punchline.

If (when?) the Bengals lose out a lot of his rationale for not making changes then goes.

I think he'll still keep Zac - Burrow seems to like him and he won't want to risk losing that coach-QB relationship and he won't want to become the Cleveland Browns with their coaching carousel. But what reason has he to keep Anarumo or Turner? That gives him a couple of fall guys.

Tobin - I think this last draft has secured his position for now. The Bengals had a very good draft. Burrow was a gimme but Higgins, Wilson, Kareem, Adeniji are all contributing already. In Mike Brown's eyes he won't want to risk losing the improvements made in drafting this year.