(04-24-2021, 11:03 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Why can't you simply acknowledge that Fox isn't the only news source doing the manipulating. I would venture a guess that it's just the one that doesn't fit the narrative in your own heads. The one that aligned itself with conservatives has to be the bad one right ?
Side note in all of this conversation, studies have shown Fox News and MSNBC viewers to be more misinformed than people who don't pay attention to the news at all.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(04-24-2021, 12:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Side note in all of this conversation, studies have shown Fox News and MSNBC viewers to be more misinformed than people who don't pay attention to the news at all.
(04-24-2021, 01:16 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I would love for you to share the unbiased news websites that you are privy to.
And yes I do lean to the conservative side on some topics. Mostly common sense in many cases. IMHO
And it's just as obvious to everyone here that you are much more accepting of the left-wing medias propaganda.
Ah yes the common sense of the right wing media machine. That same common sense that ignores all facts in the name of pushing whatever conspiracy theory the head honchos of the right wing are peddling these days. My favorite is their constant pearl clutching and hand wringing about voter fraud while ignoring all the voting fraud this go was in favor of their guy.
(04-24-2021, 11:03 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Where did I write that Fox wasn't one of the manipulators Fred ?
I came to this conclusion before this latest incident Dill.
Why can't you simply acknowledge that Fox isn't the only news source doing the manipulating. I would venture a guess that it's just the one that doesn't fit the narrative in your own heads. The one that aligned itself with conservatives has to be the bad one right ?
Well as it turns out, the news source created to stoke conservative grievance and then manipulate the free-floating anger generated along the way does have to be the bad one. Yes. It has abandoned the goals and responsibilities of journalism in a democracy.
Pushing the Big Lie which lead to the storming of the Capitol building in January is one consequence of that. MSM news leaders, for all their occasional errors, are still a head and shoulders above Fox in presenting the accurate news and competent investigative journalism.
Everyone has a "narrative" in his own head. The question is the degree to which that narrative can or cannot be grounded in logic and a factual record. To "equalize" Fox and MSM news sources, and push a step further by claiming "all trust is gone," is to abandon any effort to sort news products according to those standards.
(04-23-2021, 09:11 PM)Dill Wrote: I saw the discussion of NBC on the Faulkner Focus. Looked to me like the whole point was to discredit "the media," not to illuminate the incident. I'm not surprised at that.
Also, the NBC body cam segment did show the knife attack. They cut part of the 911 call, but that doesn't appear to be "pushing a narrative at any cost." Or what "narrative" is helped by omitting the 911 mention of girls threatening with a knife, when the body came and report shows a knife wielded anyway?
CNN, MSNBC and other MSM outlets played the fuller version of the 911 call and included close ups of the knife.
So why conclude "all trust is gone when it comes to the media" because one station cut one part of a 911 tape?
Yeah I came to the same impression. That I usually get the facts more or less straight from them.
I still share the opinion of the media being highly manipulative and one-sided. For me, it's the commentary from hosts and guests. That all present just one view and often take things way too far with no one disagreeing or halting the breaks. I don't know about NBC, but that's what MSNBC and CNN does, especially the former of course.
Imho it's the news media also aiming to be opinion leaders in the country. If one sees them as agenda-driven, I can not disagree.
And just to clarify, the right-wing media, even worse by a mile still. Sure.
Oprah's a joke. The View's a joke. They'll do anything to play the victim card and paint cops to be evil.
Watch this footage where they're saying "oh, he could have shot in the air to get her attention or shot her in the arm or leg."
Really?
She had the knife going towards the other girl and you think she's going to stop or that she'll even be able to stop with her Adrenaline going because she hears a gunshot?
Shoot her in the arm or leg?
First off, very hard shot when he's running up and she's moving.
Second, he shoots her in the leg and her arm's already going down, who's to say that, since she was already thrusting the knife, she doesn't stab her anyways?
Third, even if he could shoot her in the arm or leg, it would take him a split-second to move the gun's aim, and I'm pretty sure that split-second would have been enough time for that knife to get into the girl.
Even Don Lemon says that this shooting was justified!
Oprah and that show just like to play the victims and stir up drama whenever possible.
(04-24-2021, 01:16 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I would love for you to share the unbiased news websites that you are privy to.
You still don't get it.
Here is the story from NBC. The girl was attacking another girl with a knife and the police shot her. They even showed a picture of the knife as evidence. Everything about that is true yet FoxNews is squealing about how NBC is biased.
Meanwhile FoxNews and the right-wing media supported an absolute lie about the election being stolen through fraud and did not shut up about it until they were sued. And when one of their main mouthpieces on the issue, Sidney Powell, got sued personally here is a direct quote of her defense. . .
“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” Powell's attorneys said in a court filing defending her against a billion-dollar defamation lawsuit from Dominion Voting Systems,
So while I admit that almost every news source leans a bit one way or the other, and there are some left-wing extremist that go to far, there is really no comparison between the huge factual lies that the right spews compared to the liberal editorial comments from what is generally labeled the "mainstream" media. Discrediting the media is a major tool FoxNews uses to try and advance their propaganda. That is why they oftentimes spend more time reporting on "the mainstream media" than the actual news.
Gallup polling continues to show the distrust of the media. 33 percent don't trust the media's message. Only 9 percent do. The rest are in the middle, of sort of do, and sort of don't. But the 33 percent of 'just don't' is an all time high at that extreme.
(04-25-2021, 09:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You still don't get it.
Here is the story from NBC. The girl was attacking another girl with a knife and the police shot her. They even showed a picture of the knife as evidence. Everything about that is true yet FoxNews is squealing about how NBC is biased.
Meanwhile FoxNews and the right-wing media supported an absolute lie about the election being stolen through fraud and did not shut up about it until they were sued. And when one of their main mouthpieces on the issue, Sidney Powell, got sued personally here is a direct quote of her defense. . .
“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” Powell's attorneys said in a court filing defending her against a billion-dollar defamation lawsuit from Dominion Voting Systems,
So while I admit that almost every news source leans a bit one way or the other, and there are some left-wing extremist that go to far, there is really no comparison between the huge factual lies that the right spews compared to the liberal editorial comments from what is generally labeled the "mainstream" media. Discrediting the media is a major tool FoxNews uses to try and advance their propaganda. That is why they oftentimes spend more time reporting on "the mainstream media" than the actual news.
So I guess we actually agree. Fox gets a lot of blame here in this forum in particular (And at times rightfully so) but it's an almost daily occurrence where one news organization or another is manipulating the facts. This is not the completely one sided issue you portray it to be. MSNBC & CNN are just as bad as Fox. NBC, CBS & ABC aren't completely trustworthy either. Wouldn't take long to prove that but I'm too lazy to do the work this morning.
My point is they are all trying to advance their own viewpoint/propaganda & none of them is much better than the other. IMHO
(04-25-2021, 10:18 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: So I guess we actually agree. Fox gets a lot of blame here in this forum in particular (And at times rightfully so) but it's an almost daily occurrence where one news organization or another is manipulating the facts.
No we do not agree. NBC did not "manipulate" any facts. They never denied that the girl had a knife. They even showed a picture of the knife as evidence. There were no complete BS lies like the right-wing media spewed about the election being "stolen" by fraud.
(04-25-2021, 10:18 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: MSNBC & CNN are just as bad as Fox. NBC, CBS & ABC aren't completely trustworthy either. Wouldn't take long to prove that but I'm too lazy to do the work this morning.
Actually the work has already been done for you and the results prove that you are 100% wrong about CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC. Like I said, you can not compare a liberal leaning to the flat out lies spewed by Fox.
You are a perfect example of why FoxNews spends so much time attacking "mainstream media". They are trying to claim that EVERY news source is as biased as they are when that just is not true.
(04-25-2021, 10:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the work has already been done for you and the results prove that you are 100% wrong about CNN. Like I said, you can not compare a liberal leaning to the flat out lies spewed by Fox
Any chart stating CNN has minimal partisan bias isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
(04-25-2021, 11:06 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Any chart stating CNN has minimal partisan bias isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Okay then. Cite your source that proves CNN is just as biased as FoxNews.
All you are doing is repeating what FoxNews tells you to say. Your logic is circular. You are saying CNN is biased because a bias news source told you that.
Everytime someone claims the MSM is not reporting on something I have been able to cite specific examples of the MSM reporting on it. Meanwhile Fox and the right wing media got stone cold busted spewing complete BS about the election being stolen and they are already in damage control mode. The shut down Dobbs as soon as they got sued over it.
(04-25-2021, 11:02 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Selective editing is a form of manipulating.
If they had not said she had a knife and actually showed a picture of the knife as evidence then I would be more likely to agree with you. But they did not say anything false or leave out any facts.
So exactly what facts are you claiming they manipulated?
(04-25-2021, 11:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay then. Cite your source that proves CNN is just as biased as FoxNews.
All you are doing is repeating what FoxNews tells you to say. Your logic is circular. You are saying CNN is biased because a bias news source told you that.
Everytime someone claims the MSM is not reporting on something I have been able to cite specific examples of the MSM reporting on it. Meanwhile Fox and the right wing media got stone cold busted spewing complete BS about the election being stolen and they are already in damage control mode. The shut down Dobbs as soon as they got sued over it.
My sources are my eyes, ears & a functioning brain which is able to see that there are biases in all these news sources. If you choose to ignore the left leaning media's biases, then you are no better than the Fox viewers that you denigrate at every turn.
(04-25-2021, 10:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the work has already been done for you and the results prove that you are 100% wrong about CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC. Like I said, you can not compare a liberal leaning to the flat out lies spewed by Fox.
You are a perfect example of why FoxNews spends so much time attacking "mainstream media". They are trying to claim that EVERY news source is as biased as they are when that just is not true.
The Hill is considered conservative? Huh? I personally like The Hill, but I would say that they're definitely not conservative
(04-25-2021, 12:12 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: My sources are my eyes, ears & a functioning brain which is able to see that there are biases in all these news sources. If you choose to ignore the left leaning media's biases, then you are no better than the Fox viewers that you denigrate at every turn.
And your eyes, ears, and brain are biased, themselves. Relying on our own instincts for these things isn't a way to say anything with certainty. Something like the bias chart uses a calculation, a metric that measures biases based on the reporting. It's not without its flaws, but to dismiss it so out of hand because of your own flawed biases is just obstinance.
(04-25-2021, 12:54 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The Hill is considered conservative? Huh? I personally like The Hill, but I would say that they're definitely not conservative
I like The Hill, as well, and it does skew conservative. I've been reading it for years and it definitely showed more pre-Trump. I think the problem, now, is that our own perspective is skewed because of the Trump era. News organizations that actually reported the news and didn't cater to the administration are often seen as more liberal than they really are.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(04-25-2021, 11:02 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Selective editing is a form of manipulating.
Whether we agree or not doesn't matter one iota.
All news sources must edit. They must decide what to report and how much of it, make decisions about what is relevant for their audience, national or local. My local PA paper does not report HS basketball scores from Alaska. Similarly, the US press has a US "bias" at the national level, reporting--or not reporting--information and events from other countries. That filter limits what US audiences understand about the rest of the world, often presenting US interests as natural or unbiased. But without that filter they would be overwhelmed, and news "consumers" (as we are called now days) could make heads nor tails of all that overwhelming information.
Journalism/reporting is not possible without editing/selection of news. Editing/selection is not possible without bias--some filter based upon reporters/editors' interests. Assuming "unbiased news" as some kind of ideal only makes sense when people have not thought through the nature of reporting.
Because all news sources must filter news, all can be accused of "bias" of some sort. Sometimes the accusation is meaningful, and sometimes not.
If we want to be informed voters, then the standard for evaluating news ought to be which sources give us the most reliable information--that is, with sources effectively vetted and supplied with relevant backstory for interpretation. That doesn't mean treating every source and pov as equivalent.
Also, if we want to be informed voters, then we should not suppose that news sources are supposed to be perfect, that we are just supposed to "trust" them, and then suddenly we can't trust any of them because of one story here or one editor there, because mistakes are made every week.
(04-25-2021, 12:12 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: My sources are my eyes, ears & a functioning brain which is able to see that there are biases in all these news sources. If you choose to ignore the left leaning media's biases, then you are no better than the Fox viewers that you denigrate at every turn.
So claiming there are "biases" in all news sources is not really much of a point, especially if it leaves one unable to recognize the vast differences between them in terms of how well they vet sources and the depth to which they pursue investigations. And especially if one cannot specify how or which biases harm or degrade information we need as voters.
Finally, it seems to me quite possible that someone who ignored "left leaning bias" in the NYT and WaPo but recognized that Trump obstructed the Russia investigation, abused his power to pressure Ukraine into attacking a presidential opponent, and lost the election fair and square, could indeed be "better" (i.e., better informed as to the state of the nation) than someone who denied those things because of his reliance of Fox News. That is not to deny that there might be liberal bias out there. It is to deny that it is presently a source of mass disinformation.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: 7LNf.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/7LNf.gif)
![[Image: media-bias-chart_3.0_Hi-Res.jpg]](https://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/media-bias-chart_3.0_Hi-Res.jpg)
