Terror in NYC

[StLucieBengal]

It goes without saying that it’s a terrible situation for all involved and anyone watching.

Given this guy came through the diversity Lottery program. When is it time to start restricting this program or just killing it all together .

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 10:10 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It goes without saying that it’s a terrible situation for all involved and anyone watching.  

Given this guy came through the diversity Lottery program.    When is it time to start restricting this program or just killing it all together .

He was in the US for seven years.  Don't know if he was on a watch list or if there is any prior legal trouble, but it could be someone who turned recently.

We've seen born in the USA types that have turned to.

[*Nately120*]

(10-31-2017, 11:12 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Congratulations, you're the first person here to politicize this tragedy.  I'm sure you're proud.

Meh, this is the P&R forum, not the Thoughts & Prayers forum.  Call me a huge cynic, but typing out that you are thinking and praying about something/someone on a Bengals message board seems more self-congratulatory than helpful.

(11-01-2017, 10:10 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It goes without saying that it’s a terrible situation for all involved and anyone watching.   

Given this guy came through the diversity Lottery program.    When is it time to start restricting this program or just killing it all together .

You know what, I'm game on this.  Close everything down and let us finally focus on how dangerous Americans are to each other.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-01-2017, 10:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: He was in the US for seven years.  Don't know if he was on a watch list or if there is any prior legal trouble, but it could be someone who turned recently.

We've seen born in the USA types that have turned to.

We are stuck with those born in the USA. We aren’t stuck with the 50k per year who get in for the sake of diversity.

The reality is this program has caused a ton of fraud all over world. Although well intentioned, its just doesn’t do anyone any good.

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 10:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We are stuck with those born in the USA.   We aren’t stuck with the 50k per year who get in for the sake of diversity.  

The reality is this program has caused a ton of fraud all over world.  Although well intentioned, its just doesn’t do anyone any good.

The reality is that there is a tough vetting process and even just shutting it down completely (except for white people I suppose) wouldn't "protect" us because there are illegal ways to get in AND we have homegrown terrorists.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-01-2017, 11:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: The reality is that there is a tough vetting process and even just shutting it down completely (except for white people I suppose) wouldn't "protect" us because there are illegal ways to get in AND we have homegrown terrorists.

You have zero clue how the Diversity Lottery works.

Once again you are showing your ignorance on immigration matters. Please do yourself a favor and read up on how it works.

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 11:22 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You have zero clue how the Diversity Lottery works.  

Once again you are showing your ignorance on immigration matters.   Please do yourself a favor and read up on how it works.

'K

Quote:Section 203© of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides for a class of immigrants known as “diversity immigrants,” from countries with historically low rates of immigration to the United States. A limited number of visas are available each fiscal year. The DVs are distributed among six geographic regions and no single country may receive more than seven percent of the available DVs in any one year.


...


The Diversity Immigrant Visa (DV) Program requires the principal DV applicant to have a high school education, or its equivalent, or two years of qualifying work experience as defined under provisions of U.S. law.

If you do not have either the required education or qualifying work experience, you are not qualified to be issued a diversity visa. (Only you, as the principal applicant, must meet this requirement. Your spouse and children do not have to meet this requirement.) You should not continue with your DV application if you do not meet the qualifying education or work experience requirements explained below. You will not be issued a visa, and any fees you pay will not be refunded.


High School Education: A high school education means successful completion of a formal course of elementary and secondary education comparable to completion of a 12-year course in the United States.



Work Experience: If you are qualifying with work experience, you must have two years of experience in the last five years, in an occupation which, by U.S. Department of Labor definitions, requires at least two years of training or experience that is designated as Job Zone 4 or 5, classified in a Specific Vocational Preparation (SVP) rating of 7.0 or higher. 



...


Each year, the Department of State conducts a random selection of Diversity Immigrant Visa (DV) applicants, based on allocations of available visas in each region and country, from all registered entries. 



...


If you receive notification through the Electronic Diversity Visa (E-DV) website that you have been selected for further processing in the Diversity Immigrant Visa (DV) Program, you must successfully complete the steps on the following pages before a consular interview can be scheduled to determine if you will receive a visa. You should complete these steps as soon as possible.

If you receive notification through the E-DV website that you have been selected for further processing in the DV Program, and you are physically present in the United States, you may be eligible to adjust status to obtain permanent residence through the DV Program. For more information, see Adjustment of Status.

It is important to remember that selection does not guarantee you will receive a visa. In order to receive a DV to immigrate to the United States, selectees must still meet all eligibility requirements under U.S. law.



...


The principal applicant and all family members applying for a diversity visa in the DV-2018 and DV-2019 program must complete Form DS-260. You will need to enter your DV case number into the online DS-260 form to access and update the information about yourself and your family that you included in your DV entry.



...


Prior to your interview with a consular officer, you must obtain all required documents, following the guidelines below. It is strongly recommended that you begin this process early.

The applicant and each family member who will accompany the applicant to the United States will need to submit original documents or certified copies of the documents listed below from an appropriate office, authority, or issuing entity in your country. You will also need to bring a photocopy of each document. You will be required to bring these documents to your visa interview at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate, along with any translations required.


Documents
Review the information below to determine which documents you will need to obtain. You will take the documents with you to your interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate. Do not send any of these documents to the Kentucky Consular Center. All paper documents or correspondence mailed to KCC will be destroyed. 




Translation Requirements
All documents not in English, or in the official language of the country in which application for a visa is being made, must be accompanied by certified translations. The translation must include a statement signed by the translator that states that the:

• Translation is accurate, and,
• Translator is competent to translate. 
  

Expand All

Required DV Qualifying Education or Work Experience

Birth Certificates

Court and Prison Records

Deportation Documentation

Marriage Certificate

Marriage Termination Documentation

Military Records

Police Records

Custody Documentation


...


After the Kentucky Consular Center has reviewed your completed DS-260, you may receive an e-mail from KCC to let you know that an interview has been scheduled at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate you selected on your DS-260 form. The e-mail will instruct you to log into the Entrant Status Check on the Electronic Diversity Visa (E-DV) website, using your DV entry confirmation number, to view the date, time and location of your interview. Print this information to take with you to your interview. You will need to be present at the interview, as well as your spouse and children (as applicable) who are applying for a diversity immigrant visa.



...


You (and each family member applying for a visa with you) are required to schedule a medical appointment with an authorized physician in the country where you will be interviewed. You must complete your medical examination, along with any required vaccinations, before your scheduled visa interview date. When your medical exam is completed, if you are given a medical exam envelope, you must bring it sealed (not opened) to your visa interview. Some physicians will send the medical exam results directly to the embassy or consulate.

A list of authorized physicians for the U.S. Embassy or Consulate where you will apply is provided in the dropdown list below. You must contact a physician and schedule your medical appointment. The embassy or consulate will not do this for you. 



...


Each DV applicant will need to bring two (2) identical photos to the interview. Please review the detailed information about [/url]photo requirements to ensure that your photos will be acceptable.




Required Documentation




Each applicant will be required to present the following:

• Appointment information printed from the Entrant Status Check on the E-DV website.
• DS-260 confirmation page You can print this from the [url=http://ceac.state.gov/]Consular Electronic Application Center any time after you complete your DS-260 application.
• Passport(s) valid for six months beyond the intended date of entry into the U.S. for you and each family member applying for a visa.
• Original documents or certified copies of all applicable civil documents, and one photocopy of each document.  Follow the instructions on the previous page, Prepare Supporting Documents.
  

...


Before being interviewed, each applicant must pay the Diversity Visa Lottery fee. For DV-2019 and DV-2018 applicants the fee is $330 per person. This fee is nonrefundable, whether a visa is issued or not. Learn more about Fees.  



...


At the end of your immigrant visa interview at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate, the consular officer will inform you whether your visa application is approved or denied.



...


When traveling to the United States, the primary (or principal) applicant must enter before or at the same time as family members with visas. With your diversity visa (before it expires), and your sealed packet, you will travel to a U.S. port-of-entry (often an airport) and request permission to enter the United States. A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States.  The Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials have authority to grant or deny admission.



If you are admitted, you will enter as a Lawful Permanent Resident, also called a green card holder, and will be permitted to work and live permanently in the United States.



...

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/diversity-visa/entry.html



Yep.  Seems pretty willy-nilly and then are just letting ANYONE in.  

[StLucieBengal]

(11-01-2017, 11:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: 'K



https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/diversity-visa/entry.html



Yep.  Seems pretty willy-nilly and then are just letting ANYONE in.  

I love how you think these people are going through the meat grinder lol.

None of this data is relevant unless they can verify it with their home country.

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2017, 10:51 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, this is the P&R forum, not the Thoughts & Prayers forum.  Call me a huge cynic, but typing out that you are thinking and praying about something/someone on a Bengals message board seems more self-congratulatory than helpful.



You know what, I'm game on this.  Close everything down and let us finally focus on how dangerous Americans are to each other.

If you insist; Cynic

BTW isn't thoughts and prayers corollary to politics and religion?

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 12:47 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I love how you think these people are going through the meat grinder lol.  

None of this data is relevant unless they can verify it with their home country.

I thought you said you knew how hard the process was?

Looks like a lot of hoops and verifications and even then they can turned away at the last minute.

[*Nately120*]

(11-01-2017, 01:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you insist; Cynic

BTW isn't thoughts and prayers corollary to politics and religion?

People can think and pray all they want, but to get on a proverbial high horse because you wait a certain amount of time after our latest tragedy and mention thinking and praying on a message board while other start with the requisite politicizing and finger pointing is a bit off putting.

But again, I'm of the mind where I doubt the effectivity of mentioning thoughts and prayers on a message board...well, outside of making the one telling people he is thinking and praying feel a little surge of superiority.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-01-2017, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: I thought you said you knew how hard the process was?

Looks like a lot of hoops and verifications and even then they can turned away at the last minute.

It’s not the same as applying normally. It’s a golden ticket . And quite frankly we don’t need golden tickets going out.

The amount of people who are exploited worldwide on this lottery each year is staggering.

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 01:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It’s not the same as applying normally.   It’s a golden ticket .  And quite frankly we don’t need golden tickets going out.  

The amount of people who are exploited worldwide on this lottery each year is staggering.

If you have some statistics to back up that assertion that would be interesting to read.

Otherwise it might just be hyperbole.  Perhaps jealousy for having to go through a DIFFERENT process that you thought was difficult without really knowing how hard the other process is also.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-01-2017, 02:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: If you have some statistics to back up that assertion that would be interesting to read.

Otherwise it might just be hyperbole.  Perhaps jealousy for having to go through a DIFFERENT process that you thought was difficult without really knowing how hard the other process is also.

14 million apply for this and only 50k are chosen. Overwhelming Majority of these applications are made by third party people who charge these people to fill it out then charge them to see if they were selected. If selected they need to pay again.

Btw this is a free application

Is this program worth it when 14 million people are being exploited over the application for just 50,000 golden tickets?

I personally could care less How you feel on these immigration matters you have proven time and again you are just flat out ignorant on even the basic processes to file these forms.

This program is dangerous . Not just in letting in whoever but also for the millions who search out the golden ticket. As I have said before..... you want an immigrant family to come then by all means sponsor them.

[GMDino]

(11-01-2017, 02:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 14 million apply for this and only 50k are chosen.  Overwhelming Majority of these applications are made by third party people who charge these people to fill it out then charge them to see if they were selected.    If selected they need to pay again.  

Btw this is a free application

Is this program worth it when 14 million people are being exploited over the application for just 50,000 golden tickets?  

Wait...is the problem that it's too easy for people to get in or that too many people DON'T get in who pay the fee?  

Isn't that the kind of vetting we need?

(11-01-2017, 02:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I personally could care less How you feel on these immigration matters you have proven time and again you are just flat out ignorant on even the basic processes to file these forms.

And I'm glad that you care at least a little, but I did the research you told me to do.

I'm just not sure HOW it is dangerous to have a system where the immigrant has to pay and go through multiple steps and can still be turned away even when they get to the US with their family.

(11-01-2017, 02:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This program is dangerous .  Not just in letting in whoever but also for the millions who search out the golden ticket.    As I have said before..... you want an immigrant family to come then by all means sponsor them.

They are not just letting in "whoever".  And you WANT them to limit immigrants, which this program does through a long vetting process.

Please come up with a consistent complaint about it.  You're all over the place here.

[GMDino]

So I've been reading more about this program (thanks Lucy!) thanks the POTUS politicizing this entire affair.

He blames Chuck Schmuer (personally) for allowing this man in 20 years after the program was started (and signed by President Bush).

It seems (again) that Trump is taking what little he can learn and blowing it out of proportion in order to get something he wants...whether the facts back him up or not.

For example:

Schumer was part of the Gang of Eight that tried to end the program...in 2013.  That passed the Senate but failed in the house from what I read in various sources.

But I wonder if there is more than one example of the program allowing someone to be here who eventually became a terrorist?  I have not found anything on that yet.

Edit for more info:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/01/extreme-right-gins-up-a-culprit-for-n-y-terror-attack-chuck-schumer/?utm_term=.2c29fc805388

Quote:The program did originate in part in a bill introduced in 1990 by Schumer, who was then a member of the House. He proposed making a set number of visas available each year to “diversity immigrants” from “low-admission” countries.

Schumer’s measure was absorbed into a broader House immigration bill, which was sponsored by Schumer and 31 others, including several Republicans. The legislation passed in a bipartisan vote of 231 to 192. The Senate version, which contained the “diversity immigrants” provision, passed in an overwhelming 89-to-8 vote and was signed into law by Bush at the end of 1990.

For the past decade or so, political leaders have debated whether to keep issuing diversity visas.

A Congressional Research Service report from 2011 noted that some lawmakers and government officials had raised concerns about the program, suggesting that there were national security reasons to eliminate it. The report mentioned one case in which an Egyptian immigrant whose spouse was a diversity immigrant fatally shot two people at Los Angeles International Airport. It also cited disagreement over the reliability of background checks in countries that qualified at the time for the diversity lottery.

The Government Accountability Office reviewed the program in 2007 and found no documented evidence that diversity immigrants posed a terrorist threat, but it concluded that the program was vulnerable to fraud. The State Department under President George W. Bush rejected the agency’s recommendations, contending that its fraud-screening program was robust.

Certainly didn't take long for the POTUS to attack someone politically over a tragedy.

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2017, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People can think and pray all they want, but to get on a proverbial high horse because you wait a certain amount of time after our latest tragedy and mention thinking and praying on a message board while other start with the requisite politicizing and finger pointing is a bit off putting.

But again, I'm of the mind where I doubt the effectivity of mentioning thoughts and prayers on a message board...well, outside of making the one telling people he is thinking and praying feel a little surge of superiority.

I did read where Shumer criticized Trump by politicizing the tragedy too soon. So you and trump are on the same page.

[BmorePat87]

Conservatives say it's inappropriate to discuss gun control after a white dude shoots people. Liberals want to start immediately.

Liberals say it's inappropriate to discuss immigration control after an immigrant kills people. Conservatives want to start immediately.


Should we decide now if we want to wait a day or start immediately the next time a white dude goes on a mass shooting spree or an immigrant kills people? Could save us a day of arguing over if we should begin arguing yet.

[Millhouse]

(11-01-2017, 06:01 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Conservatives say it's inappropriate to discuss gun control after a white dude shoots people. Liberals want to start immediately.

Liberals say it's inappropriate to discuss immigration control after an immigrant kills people. Conservatives want to start immediately.


Should we decide now if we want to wait a day or start immediately the next time a white dude goes on a mass shooting spree or an immigrant kills people? Could save us a day of arguing over if we should begin arguing yet.

Yeah I wasnt a fan of how some like Hillary came out on the day of the Vegas shooting about gun control. But then yesterday I saw Trump's tweet on more vetting is needed in light of the murders in NYC, and I just shook my head at it for the same reason. 

[Goalpost]

While immigration by merit is nice, it won’t solve the problem. You can be a genius, and not believe in freedom of religion, and.....you really shouldn’t come here then.