Texas governor is demanding people report transchildren

[GMDino]

To protect them from "abuse". 

Greg Abbot has officially directed Family and Protective Services to begin investigating all trans children in Texas and prosecuting their parents as child abusers.

He has also instructed all teachers, doctors, and caregivers to begin reporting any trans students they see. pic.twitter.com/AO4FdYNuym

— Erin, Trail Mom (@ErinInTheMorn) February 23, 2022

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/abbott-says-parents-doctors-should-face-abuse-investigations-for-transgender-health-care/

Quote:Abbott says parents, doctors should face ‘abuse’ investigations for transgender health care

TEXAS POLITICS
by: Will DuPree
Posted: Feb 22, 2022 / 04:33 PM CST / Updated: Feb 22, 2022 / 07:05 PM CST






AUSTIN (KXAN) — Gov. Greg Abbott said families and medical professionals should now face abuse investigations for pursuing or providing health care options intended for transgender children.


In a letter sent Tuesday, the governor directed the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services (DFPS) “to conduct prompt and thorough investigations of any reported instances of Texas children being subjected to abusive gender-transitioning procedures.” His letter stated doctors and nurses could face punishments for failing to report such care and mentioned that DFPS should look into parents who pursue it for their kids.

This directive from Abbott follows Attorney General Ken Paxton issuing a 13-page legal opinion on Feb. 18 in which he argued that certain gender-affirming “procedures and treatments…when performed on children, can legally constitute child abuse” under Texas Family Code. In a news release publicizing this opinion, Paxton said in a statement, “I’ll do everything I can to protect against those who take advantage of and harm young Texans.”

Weighing in now on this highly-politicized topic comes at a time when Paxton faces several challengers in the competitive Republican primary for attorney general. Early voting is now underway in that race, and Texas Republican leaders have made it a policy priority to enact restrictions on transgender people. For instance, a law passed by GOP lawmakers during the last legislative session went into effect in January that bans transgender student-athletes from competing in sports matching their gender identity.


Texas DFPS response
A spokesperson for DFPS said in a statement Tuesday afternoon that the agency “will follow Texas law as explained in Attorney General opinion KP-0401.”

The statement further read, “At this time, there are no pending investigations of child abuse involving the procedures described in that opinion. If any such allegations are reported to us, they will be investigated under existing policies of Child Protective Investigations.”
[/url]
As attorney general, Paxton can issue opinions in which he shares written interpretations about existing law. However, [url=https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinions#:~:text=The%20Texas%20Constitution%20and%20sections,written%20interpretation%20of%20existing%20law.]his office’s website points out these opinions “cannot create new provisions in the law or correct unintended, undesirable effects of the law.”

Randy Erben, who teaches a class on Texas government at The University of Texas at Austin School of Law, explained that even though an attorney general’s opinion is “merely advisory,” it can be “pretty persuasive” for a state agency to follow.

“The state agency doesn’t have to follow the attorney general’s opinion,” Erben said, “but, as we’ve said in the past, it does have a persuasive effect on a state official.”

He pointed out a situation in 2015 when an attorney general’s opinion carried significant influence. During that legislative session, the attorney general issued an opinion after the Texas Legislative Board challenged several of Gov. Abbott’s line item vetoes in the state budget.

“The attorney general-issued opinion said that [Abbott] actually had the authority to issue these line item vetoes, and the line item vetoes went into effect and the comptroller did not release the funds,” Erben said.

“Had somebody brought a lawsuit against one of the state agencies seeking the funds that were line item vetoed, which has happened before,” he further explained, “a court could certainly overrule the attorney general’s opinion if the court felt in its discretion, that the attorney general’s opinion was erroneous.”

Erben speculated that “primary politics” played into Paxton issuing the opinion now about transgender children.

“This is obviously a popular position with the attorney general’s base, and he’s in a contested primary, as everybody knows,” Erben said. “But at the same time, he is statutorily required to issue these opinions within a certain period of time, so I’m sure that opinion was issued at the time it was issued in order to meet that statutory time requirement.”

Reaction from LGBTQ advocates
Advocates for the LGBTQ community in Texas denounced the governor’s letter and the attorney general’s written opinion.

Regarding the Paxton release in particular, Ricardo Martinez, the CEO of Equality Texas, described it as a continuation of what happened during the last legislative session.

“When we are okay attacking innocent children, we’re doing something really wrong,” he said.
He added that credible organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics support providing health care to transgender children.

“Our position at Equality Texas has been and will continue to be that we stand with every major credible medical association in support of this care because we know it to be life saving,” Martinez said.

He’s worried that this kind of discourse will lead to more bullying targeting LGBTQ youth, which he said has been increasing in Texas since last year. He said Equality Texas took in reports of more than 40 serious incidents during the last year, which includes everything from book removal in school libraries to physical assaults in schools.

“These are folks that just want support,” Martinez said. “They want to know how to fight back against these daily attacks, and we have to be there.”

[StrictlyBiz]

Why was my reply deleted? 

[basballguy]

There is no non medical scenario where it is ok for a child to undergo any transgender therapy/procedure.

[GMDino]

Fortunately there are people in Texas who care about human beings.

District Attorneys in five of the largest Texas counties say they will refuse to comply with Abbott's order to prosecute the parents of trans kids.

"We want to ensure our residents with transgender children that they are safe to continue seeking the care their children need." pic.twitter.com/5Yi12m7zGQ

— Gillian Branstetter (@GBBranstetter) February 24, 2022

[Bengalpool]

Minors shouldn't even be worried about this sort of stuff. I wonder what generates those thoughts in the first place, because I never heard the word "transgender" once growing up. Minors are minors. Let's keep it real here. Why would a kid be thinking of transitioning unless someone told them about it (an adult)? Minors aren't allowed to do a lot of things that adults do for a reason. They need to mature before making adult decisions. I would say that a minor worrying about their sexuality before turning 18 and your parents condoning that is odd to say the least.

[GMDino]

(02-25-2022, 10:36 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: Minors shouldn't even be worried about this sort of stuff. I wonder what generates those thoughts in the first place, because I never heard the word "transgender" once growing up. Minors are minors. Let's keep it real here. Why would a kid be thinking of transitioning unless someone told them about it (an adult)? Minors aren't allowed to do a lot of things that adults do for a reason. They need to mature before making adult decisions. I would say that a minor worrying about their sexuality before turning 18 and your parents condoning that is odd to say the least.

Curios if you think dating should be stopped before they turn 18?

Or if a boy or girl saying they "like" a girl or boy should be discouraged before 18 too?

Maybe their parents are just telling them they have to like the opposite sex?  

Your line about not hearing the word even once growing up reminds of one of my mom's friends who stayed in the closet all through high school and years later told her he was gay and she responded that everyone knew he was gay...he didn't have to say it.

[BigPapaKain]

Something something government over reach something something.

[Matt_Crimson]

(02-25-2022, 10:36 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: Minors shouldn't even be worried about this sort of stuff. I wonder what generates those thoughts in the first place, because I never heard the word "transgender" once growing up. Minors are minors. Let's keep it real here. Why would a kid be thinking of transitioning unless someone told them about it (an adult)? Minors aren't allowed to do a lot of things that adults do for a reason. They need to mature before making adult decisions. I would say that a minor worrying about their sexuality before turning 18 and your parents condoning that is odd to say the least.

Agreed.

Kids think things like Pokémon and Power Rangers are real. Yet, somehow people have convinced themselves that children "really know who they are".

If you tell kids they can be Spiderman, then they'll be more inclined to believe they actually can be Spiderman because they don't perceive reality the way adults do. Kids in large part live in fantasy land before they get old enough to realize the world isn't what they thought it was.

[Bengalpool]

(02-25-2022, 10:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: Curios if you think dating should be stopped before they turn 18?

Or if a boy or girl saying they "like" a girl or boy should be discouraged before 18 too?

Maybe their parents are just telling them they have to like the opposite sex?  

Your line about not hearing the word even once growing up reminds of one of my mom's friends who stayed in the closet all through high school and years later told her he was gay and she responded that everyone knew he was gay...he didn't have to say it.

No need to make a mountain out of a mole hill Dino. I simply believe that a sex change is a serious commitment for a young mind, just like marriage. I wouldn't correlate you being being okay with rape just because you're a Steelers fan. That would be ignorant. 

[StrictlyBiz]

(02-25-2022, 10:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: Curios if you think dating should be stopped before they turn 18?

Or if a boy or girl saying they "like" a girl or boy should be discouraged before 18 too?

Maybe their parents are just telling them they have to like the opposite sex?  

Your line about not hearing the word even once growing up reminds of one of my mom's friends who stayed in the closet all through high school and years later told her he was gay and she responded that everyone knew he was gay...he didn't have to say it.

A lot of conflation in this thread. Both this post and the tweet in your original post (which I addressed in my deleted response). 

The original tweet said that FPS will begin investigating ALL TRANS CHILDREN AND PROSECUTING THEIR PARENTS. This simply isn't true. The directive deals with sex change and hormone therapy for trans children sought after by their parents. 

Likewise, your response is equating treating dating and same sex dating as minors to sex change and hormone therapy for minors. 

In both cases, they are entirely different things. Not even remotely close. 

I think that the point of the directive, to discourage sex change and hormone therapy for minors, is a worthy discussion to have. Especially considering the major life altering implications of each that cannot be undone (or may difficult to undo) at a time when kids are still developing mentally. 

That doesn't mean that Im for outing minors and prosecuting their parents. Nor am I against same sex dating for minors. Those are absurd positions to have, and not even remotely close to forbidding same sex dating. IDK if it is being done intentionally or not, but this is absolutely not the right way to make your case or win support. 

If you want me to hear you out and convince me otherwise, let's honestly discuss the issue at hand without using hyperbole and conflation to smear those who might have a different opinion. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-25-2022, 10:36 AM)Bengalpool Wrote: Minors shouldn't even be worried about this sort of stuff. I wonder what generates those thoughts in the first place, because I never heard the word "transgender" once growing up. Minors are minors. Let's keep it real here. Why would a kid be thinking of transitioning unless someone told them about it (an adult)? Minors aren't allowed to do a lot of things that adults do for a reason. They need to mature before making adult decisions. I would say that a minor worrying about their sexuality before turning 18 and your parents condoning that is odd to say the least.

That's what parents do.  I mean, when I was 9 why did i think about Jesus all the time and never think of Vishnu?  Parents.  And parents don't want to co parent with the government, so some parents are going to talk about trans stuff and gay stuff and their kids are going to get that stuff in their heads. 

Personally, I had to filibuster to convince my parents to let me transition from a Nintendo to a Super Nintendo, but different strokes for different folks and all that. 

[Bengalpool]

(02-25-2022, 12:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's what parents do.  I mean, when I was 9 why did i think about Jesus all the time and never think of Vishnu?  Parents.  And parents don't want to co parent with the government, so some parents are going to talk about trans stuff and gay stuff and their kids are going to get that stuff in their heads. 

Personally, I had to filibuster to convince my parents to let me transition from a Nintendo to a Super Nintendo, but different strokes for different folks and all that. 

I'm religious, my wife is not. We agreed that if we had kids, we wouldn't push anything on them regardless of our beliefs. One thing we both have in common here is this, there's a line in the sand that we won't cross. And that's letting our hypothetical children decide what is best for them when they don't know better. Sex and transitions if brought up by my hypothetical kid (depending on their age and maturity) would be a red flag. Is an adult at school talking to them about their sexuality? Where did they hear it from? A lot of factors come into play here.

Every situation is different for every family. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-25-2022, 12:24 PM)Bengalpool Wrote: I'm religious, my wife is not. We agreed that if we had kids, we wouldn't push anything on them regardless of our beliefs. One thing we both have in common here is this, there's a line in the sand that we won't cross. And that's letting our hypothetical children decide what is best for them when they don't know better. Sex and transitions if brought up by my hypothetical kid (depending on their age and maturity) would be a red flag. Is an adult at school talking to them about their sexuality? Where did they hear it from? A lot of factors come into play here.

Every situation is different for every family. 

I agree, but that is your decision for your kids.  If I recall being a kid, you see things that other kids do and other adults do and say and you ask your parents why you can't do it or why you don't believe it, etc.  That's just part of society.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.  When I was a kid I was pissed that other kids were allowed to cross the street on their own, or shoot or own guns, or sleep in on Sunday because they didn't go to church...life wasn't fair.  I was bound by the decisions my parents made and what they deemed to be right.

I recall being 10 or so and we had a family gathering and one of my uncles by marriage brought guns with him and we had to leave because I was livid that my cousin Eddie who was only a year older than me was allowed to shoot the gun and I wasn't.  Just replace that with a situation where uncle Jeff starts tossing out the idea that kids can make decisions about their gender identity causing you to pack up your kids and leave.

What I'm saying is that this is just another case of "Billy is allowed to doubt his biological sex!"  "Well, we aren't Billy's parents, and in this house we don't get into that until you are 18."  Whether it's a BB gun or staying up to watch Headbanger's Ball or being allowed to question sexuality, there is always going to be that sort of "Not in this house" vibe.  

It's just another aspect of parenting, isn't it? Seems weird, but I think that's what it comes down to.

[Bengalpool]

(02-25-2022, 12:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I agree, but that is your decision for your kids.  If I recall being a kid, you see things that other kids do and other adults do and say and you ask your parents why you can't do it or why you don't believe it, etc.  That's just part of society.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks.  When I was a kid I was pissed that other kids were allowed to cross the street on their own, or shoot or own guns, or sleep in on Sunday because they didn't go to church...life wasn't fair.  I was bound by the decisions my parents made and what they deemed to be right.

I recall being 10 or so and we had a family gathering and one of my uncles by marriage brought guns with him and we had to leave because I was livid that my cousin Eddie who was only a year older than me was allowed to shoot the gun and I wasn't.  Just replace that with a situation where uncle Jeff starts tossing out the idea that kids can make decisions about their gender identity causing you to pack up your kids and leave.

What I'm saying is that this is just another case of "Billy is allowed to doubt his biological sex!"  "Well, we aren't Billy's parents, and in this house we don't get into that until you are 18."  Whether it's a BB gun or staying up to watch Headbanger's Ball or being allowed to question sexuality, there is always going to be that sort of "Not in this house" vibe.  

It's just another aspect of parenting, isn't it?  Seems weird, but I think that's what it comes down to.

Definitely. My parents weren't that strict on me, I think they just wanted me to grow up to be a good person. They warned me about things in life to look out for. Y'know, stranger danger, don't jump in anyone's car, candy may not be candy, etc. I had a sister who had Barbie's, and I had action figures. Typical boy/girl. Sometimes I would take the Barbie dolls and use them as extra figures to play along with my action figures. My parents never overreacted to that and nor should they have. Would my buddies had made fun of me and maybe bully me if they seen me doing that? Hell yeah they would. Would they call me gay and be homophobic? Definitely. Was I? No. Am I? No. Now imagine me doing that in today's world as a kid, with parents that push that seed. Would I be gay today? Idk. 

I think Matt_Crimson has it right. A kid lives in a fantasy world a majority of their childhood. You tell them they can be something they're not, they'll believe you. This kid may be 5-9 y/o. They trust you because you're mom/dad. 

KID: I'm Superman!

Dad: Of course buddy! Just don't be jumping on the bed. 

KID: Dad, I don't want to be a boy/girl anymore. I want to change.

Dad: Y'know, I support you and what you want to do. Don't let anyone tell you different.

I need someone to convince me otherwise that I should believe my kid knows exactly what they're talking about when they say certain things. Again, it depends on the age and maturity. Are we really going to roll over and just be like "okay cool I support you" like we're talking with adults? When is a kid not in fantasy land? If a parent tells their kid they are definitely superman, well. I hope they don't attempt to fly out the window. Kids will believe anything a parent tells them. What if this kid wants hormonal changes and shit because Billy down the block did? Where do you cross the line? What if this kid doesn't feel the same way when they become an adult? I wouldn't let my kid get a tattoo, because they would probably hate my ass when they became an adult if they couldn't get laid due to a stretched out and faded paw patrol logo being tatted on their forehead. 

My issue is the pushing, giving kids that seed. Why do it? Why not encourage them to worry about that once they grow older? With the internet, kids can know anything, talk to anyone, etc. I don't believe its as honest as a kid waking up one day and deciding they don't feel comfortable in their own body anymore. It's never that simple. Someone planted that seed. Whether it was a friend, school teacher, parent, or something they ran into on Google search. It's a rabbit hole that kids shouldn't be seduced to. 

Minds can be changed. Body parts and hormones are a little different. 

[*Nately120*]

Well, to me the foreboding aspect of stuff like this is the "report people to the government" stuff.  Maybe this transgender stuff is a big deal, maybe it's like 60 years ago telling kids they can "mingle with colored people if they like when they are 18."  I grasp the gravity of the sexual stuff, but at the same time I recognize that we as a society have a tendency to create a "think of the children!" boogie man for each generation.

I guess time will tell if this is a big deal, or not.  I don't have kids because I don't want to expose any kids to my lousy genetics and cynicism so take my equating this to the left-handed panic of the old days with a grain of salt.


I will say that I have a friend from college who graduated, married a man, had a kid, and then transitioned to male.  So they are still married and they are two guys raising the kid...I'm not sure what they'd label it as, but I guess it doesn't matter.  Now, the daughter is one of those gay pride, I have two dad's types and she's also expressed that she is gay or bi or something along those lines (I don't want to assign any specifics to it, since it's not my place to do so).  Of course I'd wonder if she is really gay or bi or is she just convinced she wants to be in with the in crowd that her parents have exposed her to, or is she statistically legitimately of that persuasion.

But really, what it comes down to is that she isn't my kid and she seems ok, and they seem ok and I can have my own damn kids if I want to dictate the rules.  

[GMDino]

So there are still people thinking that people choose to gay and can be influenced to be gay? Or transgender?

That's amazing.

[basballguy]

The mental gymnastics being done in this thread as an effort to generate outrage is borderline ridiculous.

It's simple....nobody gives a flying f*ck what sexual orientation you want to be as an adult. When you are making sexual orientation decisions on behalf of a child...which includes transgender therapy/procedures, then some intervention is needed.

[StrictlyBiz]

(02-25-2022, 02:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: So there are still people thinking that people choose to gay and can be influenced to be gay? Or transgender?

That's amazing.

Quote:The findings, which are published on 29 August in Science and based on the genomes of nearly 500,000 people, shore up the results of earlier, smaller studies and confirm the suspicions of many scientists: while sexual preferences have a genetic component, no single gene has a large effect on sexual behaviours.

“There is no ‘gay gene’,” says lead study author Andrea Ganna, a geneticist at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6#ref-CR1

article obtained from
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31481774/

As a parent of teens (I am) I'd prefer to wait until they are adults to make such a major decision. Given the science and what is at stake, I don't think that's unreasonable. If my child is showing signs of homosexuality/transgenderism, how much is genetic and how much is social influence that may change with time, age, and experience? Who is to say? What I won't do though is something that is possibly irreversible that could lead to even bigger issues as an adult. 

There is also a genetic link to alcoholism. If you're going to be consistent, you should be advocating for not only giving kids the key to the liquor cabinet and beer fridge, but also for the abolishment of a legal drinking age opening up the bars to kids. 

Quote:Alcohol use disorder (AUD) often seems to run in families, and we may hear about scientific studies of an “alcoholism gene.” Genetics certainly influence our likelihood of developing AUD, but the story isn’t so simple.

Research shows that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for AUD. Therefore, genes alone do not determine whether someone will develop AUD. Environmental factors, as well as gene and environment interactions account for the remainder of the risk.


https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-use-disorder/genetics-alcohol-use-disorder

Now would you care to go in depth on your position and possibly enlighten me on something that I am missing that may change my mind? Or do you want to continue with the hyperbole and the post-grenade lob and run like above? 

[basballguy]

(02-25-2022, 03:18 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: As a parent of teens (I am) I'd prefer to wait until they are adults to make such a major decision. Given the science and what is at stake, I don't think that's unreasonable. If my child is showing signs of homosexuality/transgenderism, how much is genetic and how much is social influence that may change with time, age, and experience? Who is to say? What I won't do though is something that is possibly irreversible that could lead to even bigger issues as an adult. 

There is also a genetic link to alcoholism. If you're going to be consistent, you should be advocating for not only giving kids the key to the liquor cabinet and beer fridge, but also for the abolishment of a legal drinking age opening up the bars to kids. 


Now would you care to go in depth on your position and possibly enlighten me on something that I am missing that may change my mind? Or do you want to continue with the hyperbole and the post-grenade lob and run like above? 

I'm convinced these posts are being made by a bot.  

[Bengalpool]

(02-25-2022, 02:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: So there are still people thinking that people choose to gay and can be influenced to be gay? Or transgender?

That's amazing.

The amount of passive aggressive, proselytizing comments that you've made in this thread is transparent. You really can't hear a difference in opinion without twisting the truth of others can you? To me, that is amazing.

Don't post touchy subjects if you're not prepared for the aftermath. Not everyone shares the same opinion(s) as you. Insinuating that people are homophobic, and/or anything else without proof is a childish thing to do.