The Abortion Question

[Aquapod770]

When does life begin?


This seems to be the most widely debated question when it comes to abortion. Most pro-life people say conception, while pro-choice opinion tends to vary widely. So my question to all of you is; When does the right to life of the baby outweigh the right to choice of the woman? At conception? When the heart starts beating? When the brain begins developing? Or never?

[*bfine32*]

Depends on if you want to "ignore science" or not.

Simple biology states it begins at conception; however, there will be those that try to muddy the waters.

[GMDino]

(09-26-2015, 05:52 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: When does life begin?


This seems to be the most widely debated question when it comes to abortion. Most pro-life people say conception, while pro-choice opinion tends to vary widely.  So my question to all of you is; When does the right to life of the baby outweigh the right to choice of the woman? At conception? When the heart starts beating? When the brain begins developing? Or never?

After a lot of these debates it is usually brought down to not when do the cells start dividing, but rather when is the fetus viable separate from the mother's body.

I have fallen along the lines of abortion is a horrible thing and awful decision...but it is not mine to make.  All I can do is try and convince someone that there are other options.  I also do not shame those who make that choice as I do not know why they did or how much they agonized over it.

[Arturo Bandini]

Women stuff.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-26-2015, 06:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Depends on if you want to "ignore science" or not.

Simple biology states it begins at conception; however, there will be those that try to muddy the waters.

The classic bfine strawman.

A single skin cell is living, too. Do you cry when people callously kill them?

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 06:40 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: The classic bfine strawman.

A single skin cell is living, too. Do you cry when people callously kill them?

Could help but notice you didn't answer the question. 

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-26-2015, 06:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Could help but notice you didn't answer the question. 

I've already made my position fairly clear in other threads; feel free to go through my posting history if it's that important to you. I found it more urgent to point out your fallacious reasoning so that others won't make the mistake of thinking you had a point.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 06:51 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: I've already made my position fairly clear in other threads; feel free to go through my posting history if it's that important to you. I found it more urgent to point out your fallacious reasoning so that others won't make the mistake of thinking you had a point.

bfine32 Wrote:Could help but notice you didn't answer the question. 

Also quite disrespectful to the OP

[Naranja Tigre]

(09-26-2015, 06:40 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: The classic bfine strawman.

A single skin cell is living, too. Do you cry when people callously kill them?

Skin cells vs fetuses? Come on man.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-26-2015, 07:14 PM)Naranja Tigre Wrote: Skin cells vs fetuses? Come on man.

If bfine and the other pro-lifers want to reduce the abortion debate down to whether a fetus is scientifically alive from the moment of conception, then I see no errors with the analogy. Scientifically, a skin cell is as alive as a 1 day old fetus.

[Naranja Tigre]

(09-26-2015, 07:19 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: If bfine and the other pro-lifers want to reduce the abortion debate down to whether a fetus is scientifically alive from the moment of conception, then I see no errors with the analogy. Scientifically, a skin cell is as alive as a 1 day old fetus.

For me it's not about when it's "alive", it's about what it is. It's a human being.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-26-2015, 07:22 PM)Naranja Tigre Wrote: For me it's not about when it's "alive", it's about what it is. It's a human being.

Oh okay. Well you might notice that I was responding to bfine's ridiculous point that a fetus is merely alive from conception scientifically, not to your position which you've only now just revealed.

For the record, no, a 1 day old fetus is not a human being.

[Naranja Tigre]

(09-26-2015, 07:42 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Oh okay. Well you might notice that I was responding to bfine's ridiculous point that a fetus is merely alive from conception scientifically, not to your position which you've only now just revealed.

For the record, no, a 1 day old fetus is not a human being.

I believe it is. I believe trying to decide when a fetus is a human being is just asking for trouble.

[6andcounting]

If you're pronounced dead when your heart rate hits 0, then anytime it is greater than 0 you are alive; therefore, life begins at the first heart beat. To me, this explanation always seemed more like basic biology and less about the abortion debate.

[Belsnickel]

(09-26-2015, 05:52 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: When does life begin?


This seems to be the most widely debated question when it comes to abortion. Most pro-life people say conception, while pro-choice opinion tends to vary widely. So my question to all of you is; When does the right to life of the baby outweigh the right to choice of the woman? At conception? When the heart starts beating? When the brain begins developing? Or never?

I actually think the better question to ask is when is it a separate life? I won't deny life at any stage, but I would contend it is not a separate life until viability.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 08:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I actually think the better question to ask is when is it a separate life? 

Why is that a "better" question; because opinions can be introduced?

But to answer that question: When the umbilical cord is cut. 



I've said it before and I'll say it again: History will one day judge us on this "procedure". It gives me comfort to know which side of the fence I was on when they call us monsters.

[*Nately120*]

According to John Lennon, life begins at 40. Then again, he wrote that just before he was killed, so who knows.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-26-2015, 07:53 PM)Naranja Tigre Wrote: I believe it is. I believe trying to decide when a fetus is a human being is just asking for trouble.

Your beliefs don't really matter if you can't make an argument to prove them correct, and using a slippery slope fallacy doesn't cut it.

[GodHatesBengals]

bfine32 Wrote:Why is that a "better" question; because opinions can be introduced?

But to answer that question: When the umbilical cord is cut. 



I've said it before and I'll say it again: History will one day judge us on this "procedure".  It gives me comfort to know which side of the fence I was on when they call us monsters.

It's a better question because it recognizes that a fertilized egg and a skin cell are both technically "alive", but whether either one has any kind of rights is a different question.

I think history will look back on the fact that abortion has been happening since the beginning of humankind and be not surprised it continues.

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 09:42 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: It's a better question because it recognizes that a fertilized egg and a skin cell are both technically "alive", but whether either one has any kind of rights is a different question.

I think history will look back on the fact that abortion has been happening since the beginning of humankind and be not surprised it continues.

As I mentioned in post #2 folks will attempt to muddy the waters instead of answering the question asked (ignore science). 

WTS, a human in the US doesn't have the right to drive until 16, doesn't have the right to vote until 18, doesn't have the right to drink alcoholic beverages until 21, doesn't have the right to run for President until 35. 

What age do you suggest a living being has the right to remain alive ?