The Abortion Question

[Beaker]

Life begins at 21.

[Benton]

(09-26-2015, 11:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tell me if any of my Pro choice friends would say yes to any of the following given there is no danger to the mother, the pregnancy wasn’t the result of incest or rape.

If a mother is found to be financially secure abortion should not be allowed 1

If a woman wants an abortion she should be required to undergo a Tubal ligation as well. 2

A woman should be limited to the number of abortions she can have 3

If the father objects the mother cannot have an abortion 4

Excluding medical reasons or rape, then...

1- Should not be allowed, regardless of income
2- No, but I think the only reason should be due to medical concerns or rape
3- No, same reason as above. A woman should not be subjected to a limited amount of times she can be raped or attempt to conceive a viable fetus.
4- No, reason 2-3.

[Benton]

(09-26-2015, 11:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So are you saying a human can make decisions outside of his or her consciousness? 

Remember the yes or no rule. 

I don't know about a rule. But a person can respond to stimuli whether they are awake or asleep or in a different state of consciousness. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 11:52 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Awww. Look at how feisty you get when people don't repeat themselves at your will. I feel very sorry for your spouse.

And I feel equally sorry for yours if she (or he) asks a yes or no question.

"Do you want to go out to dinner?"

"I've already answered that"

"I don't remember if you said yes or no"

"Stop with your feisty behavior" 

"Could you please just say yes or no?"

"I don't have the time to answer yes or no. What I do have time to do is tell you how ridiculous your question is and I would like to further point out, if we do go out to eat the meal should be vegan. If you ask me why it should be vegan I'll tell you because an animal is alive, same as a human fetus, skin cells, and bacteria. Furthermore we should discuss the morality of eating out. Is it right that we dine out while there are those in the world that will go without tonight?"

"Never mind, I'm going to bfine's"
 

[*bfine32*]

(09-27-2015, 12:00 AM)Benton Wrote: I don't know about a rule. But a person can respond to stimuli whether they are awake or asleep or in a different state of consciousness. 

Just to help you out with the rule: That was a yes. 

[Brownshoe]

(09-26-2015, 11:43 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Nope. But beating hearts and brain activity are not necessary to identify life.

No it's not, but anything with those two things are obviously alive are they not?

[*bfine32*]

(09-26-2015, 11:57 PM)Benton Wrote: Excluding medical reasons or rape, then...

1- Should not be allowed, regardless of income
2- No, but I think the only reason should be due to medical concerns or rape
3- No, same reason as above. A woman should not be subjected to a limited amount of times she can be raped or attempt to conceive a viable fetus.
4- No, reason 2-3.

I should have mentioned rape in the question........

Hey wait a minute. 

[Benton]

(09-27-2015, 12:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Just to help you out with the rule: That was a yes. 

Thanks!

[Brownshoe]

(09-26-2015, 11:50 PM)Benton Wrote: How do you wake up every morning?
Alarm clock? Somebody calling your name? Rooster? Or are you oblivious and it's just some random act of fate?
Being aware of your surroundings continues into being asleep, knocked out, or... according to those who have been there in some cases... in a coma. Being conscious doesn't mean being awake, it means being able to discern the world around you. You do that in different forms. So does a fetus. 

Then you are talking about being "sentient". You can't really tell when something becomes sentient.

[Benton]

(09-27-2015, 12:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I should have mentioned rape in the question........

Hey wait a minute. 

You did. I was just making sure nothing was misconstrued. 

[Benton]

(09-27-2015, 12:08 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Then you are talking about being "sentient". You can't really tell when something becomes sentient.

Agreed. That's why I said you have to fall back to responses.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-27-2015, 12:07 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No it's not, but anything with those two things are obviously alive are they not?

Contrary to bfine's obsessive begging the question, I've already answered that fetuses are alive, as are skin cells, sperm cells, blood cells, etc. al.

[*bfine32*]

(09-27-2015, 12:09 AM)Benton Wrote: You did. I was just making sure nothing was misconstrued. 

Well then, you may want to relook answer 1, unless you are Pro life

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-27-2015, 12:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And I feel equally sorry for yours if she (or he) asks a yes or no question.

"Do you want to go out to dinner?"

"I've already answered that"

"I don't remember if you said yes or no"

 

Oh, so you don't remember my previous posts on this thread on this message board that you are on right this second? Why didn't you just say so? I can solve that for ya.

Just hit the little back button on your Internet browser thing, and then use your mouse to scroll down the page and read what I typed up. Presto!

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-27-2015, 12:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well then, you may want to relook answer 1, unless you are Pro life

Um. Even for you, this failure to understand Benton's clear words is pretty shocking.

[*bfine32*]

(09-27-2015, 12:26 AM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Oh, so you don't remember my previous posts on this thread on this message board that you are on right this second? Why didn't you just say so? I can solve that for ya.

Just hit the little back button on your Internet browser thing, and then use your mouse to scroll down the page and read what I typed up. Presto!

...or you could just make it much easier and type YES or NO.

BTW, I'm on a laptop, I don't have a mouse so I cannot scroll down. But I've gotten your answer in a round about way. You believe life begins at conception. Thanks. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-27-2015, 12:27 AM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Um. Even for you, this failure to understand Benton's clear words is pretty shocking.

Why focus on me?

[Brownshoe]

(09-27-2015, 12:18 AM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Contrary to bfine's obsessive begging the question, I've already answered that fetuses are alive, as are skin cells, sperm cells, blood cells, etc. al.

So, do you think it's a part of the mother even though it has its own heart, brain, blood, organs, ect.? If you don't think it's a part of the mother then it's obviously alive, it's obviously a human, and it's obviously it's own being. So the question is... Why should we give the right to women to murder another human being just for inconveniencing the woman?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I do believe there are some people out there in our own country who believe abortion can be performed up to two years old and even up to five years old depending on when the child becomes aware of their own existence.

As for if a baby can live outside of the mothers womb, aren't all children dependent on survival up to at least 5 years old or even older? Well, maybe not five years old but at least three.

[GodHatesBengals]

(09-27-2015, 12:43 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: So, do you think it's a part of the mother even though it has its own heart, brain, blood, organs, ect.? If you don't think it's a part of the mother then it's obviously alive, it's obviously a human, and it's obviously it's own being. So the question is... Why should we give the right to women to murder another human being just for inconveniencing the woman?

I have bolded all the things you said in that post which do not follow from anything I've said.