The End of Bates?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-08-2022, 10:38 AM)Whatever Wrote: Not sure how that shows consistency.  He had more PD's in '20(15) than '19 and '21 combined (13).  Plus his passer rating allowed bounced from 100.1 to 70.7 to 122.0 in that time frame.

It's weird that 2020 was his best season as our defense was pretty terrible that year.

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2022, 12:07 PM)Stewy Wrote: Firstly, griping about the tag is standard for a player.  They all hate it.  They all get it.  They aren't going to hold griping about the TAG against Bates.

Correct.

But the situation with Bates is different. During a season when most players give their best effort (contract year) Jesse played worse.

[WeezyBengal]

IDK what hes complaining about. He's making 13 million guaranteed this year. If they tag him again next year that's almost 29 million guaranteed. Basically what he should be looking for in guaranteed money from a longer term contract.

If the Bengals plan on bringing him back on the tag again next year they should just get a longer term deal done guaranteeing 29 million.

[Garrus]

(03-08-2022, 01:35 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: IDK what hes complaining about. He's making 13 million guaranteed this year. If they tag him again next year that's almost 29 million guaranteed. Basically what he should be looking for in guaranteed money from a longer term contract.

If the Bengals plan on bringing him back on the tag again next year they should just get a longer term deal done guaranteeing 29 million.

They (He) hates it because if he happens to have a horrible injury next season, then we probably won't tag him again, so he will hit the market, but his value will be much lower due to a long recovery/unknown future. Basically he would only get the 13 mil from this year, where as if he signed a long term deal with lets say 29 mil guaranteed and got hurt, we would still get that money. Basically a long term deal guarantees him more money than the tag does. It might make him play timid next year as to not risk injury and risk another payday. 

[Shake n Blake]

(03-08-2022, 01:17 AM)bfine32 Wrote: We have our franchise LT. Why do folks want to replace/move Jonah? 

For what Armstead would cost we could most likely get Schreff and Tomlinson 

Agreed. Jonah is no Whitworth. Not even close. That said, he's decent.

I'd rather get 2 good players (at spots where the need is more dire) for roughly the same price. We need it.

(03-08-2022, 01:31 AM)Whatever Wrote: I just personally have issues giving elite money to a guy that inconsistent.  If he had backed up his play from 2020 this year, I wouldn't have an issue.  

Oh well.  It's a moot point now, I suppose.  All we can do now is wait for Bates to sign his FT.

Fair point, and again I see where you're coming from, but if there's any time we can afford it, it's now. I'd just hate to see us get worse before FA even starts. This ensures that we're crystal on what our biggest need is throughout the offseason.

Now try to work out a *fair* deal and if not, look for Bates' replacement in April.

[Stewy]

(03-08-2022, 01:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Correct.

But the situation with Bates is different. During a season when most players give their best effort (contract year) Jesse played worse.

Yep can't argue that, especially since he said it distracted him, which he really shouldn't have admitted.

[reuben.ahmed]

Will he play even worse now that he's under franchise tag?

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-05-2022, 10:45 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: I'm on a Bengals Facebook group and someone mentioned that Bates took the Bengals off this Instagram bio. I checked and I can somewhat confirm (though it's possible that Bates never had the Bengals in his bio to begin with).

We already know Bates was frustrated with contract negotiations throughout the season and with players publicly advocating for him on twitter, i'm starting to think the negotiations have hit a stall. Bates is either asking for top safety $$$ or the Bengals simply don't value premium safeties.

As sad as it is to see Bates go, I wouldn't mind if the Bengals spent that money on a premium offensive guard, center, or tackle. Not like a Ryan Jensen either. I'm talking locking down a young offensive lineman with productive stats for 3+ years.

We'd definitely miss Bates in the backfield, but if it leads to keeping our franchise QB upright and healthy for years to come I can tolerate it.

You will likely (and I'm guessing already have) be killed for making this an "Either/Or" situation.  They should be able to do both.  

We have no idea what has been offered, or how it was structured.

Here are some things I DO know:

Bates was below average for much of the season, apparently due to a lack of focus (his explanation) from not having a contract done.

Bates was the highest rated defensive player on the Bengals in the playoffs.

The Bengals have almost always paid their own guys when it came to top performers due for a 2nd contract.  When Zeitler got an absurd $12 million per year at Cleveland (when he got it, it was insane money), I was OK with letting him go.  

The odds of the Bengals getting a long term deal done AFTER a year on the tag is around 19%.  That is based on the last 10 times the Bengals used the tag.  Many times, it made sense to let them go.  A couple times, it didn't.  Bates may not like the tag, but I can imagine he turned down something around $13-14 million a year over four years because Seattle blew the safety market by ridiculously overpaying their guy.  BTW, how did that work out so far? 

They can STILL get a contract done this year.  The tag can just be used to make sure he doesn't test the market and he will be unable to negotiate with other teams.  Do I think it happens?  No, because his agent has a super ego and will advise Jesse to hold out for more.  He will advise him again next year to do the same.  Jesse needs to realize the agent works for HIM.  He should sign the four year deal and have the opportunity to get ANOTHER bite of the apple in four years when he is just 29. 

Do I think it will happen?  No.  Do I think his agent is working in his best interests?  Absolutely not.  The agent gets a big check with EVERY contract Bates signs.  He signs two in two years, more money for the agent than if he signs one.  Stupid.  Jesse, get this done.  You have the team, the guys around you, the coaches, etc...it is all here.  Take the contract and run.  

[jj22]

Throwing this in here as to not start a new thread...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/14/quandre-diggs-agrees-to-re-sign-with-seahawks/

I know Bates is home grown and for the most part "elite". But... how much better is he then Diggs? 20m better?

[grampahol]

(03-05-2022, 02:51 PM)Synric Wrote: I guess Joe Mixon and Tyler Boyd are leaving too? They dont have Bengals listed in their instagram... or could this possible not mean anything?

I don't even have an instagram account which definitely means I'm not a Bengals fan anymore.. Pretty obvious, huh? 

[*Synric*]

Davonte Adams told the Packers he refuses to play under the franchise tag.

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/davante-adams-informs-packers-he-wont-play-on-franchise-tag-in-2022

[*pally*]

Marcus Williams just signed with the Ravens for 5 years $70 million...averaging $14 million per year. Bates and Williams were considered the top 2 safeties heading into free agency

edit $37 million guaranteed The guarantee money is what we've been led to believe is the sticking point with Bates

[J24]

37 y Guranteed and 31guranteed at Signing. That's the contract that Bates wants.

[Sled21]

(03-14-2022, 06:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Davonte Adams told the Packers he refuses to play under the franchise tag.

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/davante-adams-informs-packers-he-wont-play-on-franchise-tag-in-2022

This is the culture the QB set in GB....

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

J. Reid signs with Chiefs to replace Honey Badger 3yr/$31.5M/$20M guaranteed (more than I expected)
M. Maye signs with Saints to replace M. Williams 3yr/$28.5M/$15M guaranteed

[fredtoast]

Did Bengals social media create the monster that is Bates by hyping him so much?

Maybe he would not be expecting as much from the Bengals if they had not been saying he was the best safety in the league.

[Au165]

(03-16-2022, 03:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: J. Reid signs with Chiefs to replace Honey Badger 3yr/$31.5M/$20M guaranteed (more than I expected)
M. Maye signs with Saints to replace M. Williams 3yr/$28.5M/$15M guaranteed

I think his value is squarely in line with Marcus Williams (5 years 70 Million), the S market got beat up a little this off season which does help us for sure. Guranteed is probably still the issue though.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-16-2022, 05:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think his value is squarely in line with Marcus Williams (5 years 70 Million), the S market got beat up a little this off season which does help us for sure. Guranteed is probably still the issue though.

The Chiefs are weaker in the secondary. Reid not very good. But the Ravens have helped their defense. Denver got Russ Wilson. The Chargers really helped their defense.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-16-2022, 05:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think his value is squarely in line with Marcus Williams (5 years 70 Million), the S market got beat up a little this off season which does help us for sure. Guranteed is probably still the issue though.

As an imaginary GM, I’d pay that much for a CB. Not a FS. If a long term deal isn’t possible, I’d try to trade him so I could use his salary cap space on someone else (like Tretter, draft Daxton Hill @ 31.)

[Au165]

(03-16-2022, 06:39 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As an imaginary GM, I’d pay that much for a CB. Not a FS. If a long term deal isn’t possible, I’d try to trade him so I could use his salary cap space on someone else (like Tretter, draft Daxton Hill @ 31.)

14 per really isn’t that much right now for a safety and with cap inflation will be a steal by year 3.