The Fallacy of White Privilege

[GMDino]

I guess this is as good a place as any.

http://easttennessean.com/2016/09/28/man-in-a-gorilla-mask-confronts-black-lives-matter-demonstrators-at-etsu/

Quote:ETSU STUDENT IN A GORILLA MASK CONFRONTS BLACK LIVES MATTER DEMONSTRATORS

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DAVID FLOYD — SEPTEMBER 28, 2016

 (Photograph by David Floyd/East Tennessean)
A barefoot ETSU student in a gorilla mask confronted Black Lives Matter demonstrators in Borchuck Plaza Wednesday, dangling bananas in front of their faces with a rope and brandishing a sign that said “Lives Matter.”

“I saw him come down the steps as a gorilla,” said Jaylen Grimes, one of the demonstrators. “He pulled out his burlap sack and then he had the rope and whatnot and then he started offering us bananas. A lot of us didn’t take it, but I just took as a sign of peace offering and just to show him that, just because he’s being disrespectful towards me, I won’t be disrespectful towards him.”

The student offered Grimes another banana, and Grimes took it again. Eventually, officers with ETSU Public Safety escorted the man in the gorilla mask away from the plaza. The freshman student has been identified as Tristan Rettke, who has been charged with a count of civil rights intimidation. Aside from the rope and the bananas, Rettke also had a burlap sack that had a marijuana leaf and a Confederate Flag printed on it.
[/url](Photograph by David Floyd/East Tennessean)[url=http://i2.wp.com/easttennessean.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/14516352_1391053440909580_1285303312247113642_n.jpg](Photograph by David Floyd/East Tennessean)
“He was just trying to get a reaction out of us,” Grimes said, explaining that the demonstrators were there to conduct a peaceful protest. “If we would have lashed out violently, that would have been another problem and we would’ve all got in trouble … and like I said, that’s not why we’re here. We were here as peaceful (demonstrators), so we had to remain as such.”

The demonstrators were in the plaza as part of a three-day series of demonstrations that were organized in protest of the recent shootings by police of black men in Tulsa and Charlotte.

On Wednesday afternoon, the office of the president released a statement responding to the incident.

“We are exceptionally proud of the students who were peacefully participating in the event and the manner in which they exercised restraint, thoughtfulness and strength in the face of inappropriate and offensive behavior,” the statement said.

The email said that criminal charges are pending before the local district attorney, and the university has begun a student-conduct investigation.

University leadership quickly organized a community meeting tonight Wednesday night in the D.P. Culp University Center Auditorium.

During the demonstration on Wednesday, protestors linked arms and held up mirrors emblazoned with the names of victims of police violence, hoping that passerby would take the time to see themselves in the faces of those victims.

“When you take the opportunity to view it from another person’s shoes, your opinion and your perspective can change a little bit,” said SGA Vice President Nathan Farnor on Monday, who helped organize the demonstrations, “and that’s the intention.”

The demonstrations were held from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. Tuesday and Wednesday in Borchuck Plaza. Another protest is planned for Thursday at the same time.

On Tuesday, students gathered around the fountain in a symbolic protest, Farnor said, against the silence that has been forced on the black community. During the demonstration on Thursday, protestors will wear white T-shirts personalized with their names hashtagged (for example, #NathanFarnor).

“Meaning at any point that I might be the one that will have to claim my hashtag,” Farnor said. “Because at any point in time, that traffic stop or that stop and frisk by police could be the last moment of my life, and my hashtag could be the next one that you see on Facebook or Twitter or at the bottom of the news reel on television.”

Despite the controversy caused by the protestor’s appearance, his presence did seem to attract a larger crowd, and Grimes said that his arrival was a good thing.

“I was going to let him stay as long as he wanted to,” Grimes said, “because once white people see how the counterpart of their same culture acts, they can just reflect on that and see, ‘Oh, I’m not like that. Oh, I actually might want to help.’ And they might want to push against what his thoughts and what his beliefs are.”

“Violence is not our answer to anything,” Grimes said. “Because once you fight fire with fire, it just starts a larger fire. And where there’s more fire, there’s more destruction.”

During the community meeting in the D.P. Culp University Center Auditorium, ETSU President Brian Noland and other administrators spoke to students about the events in Borchuck Plaza. ETSU professor Chris Dula served as the moderator, and encouraged participants to ask questions and to discuss the incident on campus today.


“This does not represent our university,” Noland said. “I hope that students do not look upon their time at ETSU and think of this moment.”


Many of the students shared concerns about what they said were administration’s lack of response to smaller incidences of racism, such as micro-aggressions, in the classroom.


Noland and Dula have been working with other faculty and staff for the past nine months to ensure a safe and diverse campus; this served as a reminder to why these conversations are necessary.


A student questioned what would set this plan apart, and Noland addressed the community. There will be plans put into place, attached to resources, with measurable outcomes implemented. Noland invited the community into his office hours, to further discuss these plans.


“It starts in the classroom,” said a student. “We have to educate others.”


This rare dialogue has brought conversations that this university has never seen before, and the reaction has been positive.



“It’s unfortunate that it took this heinous act to start this conversation,” Noland said. “I hope today is only the beginning for these types of conversations here.”



Sophomore Jeremiah Pearson delivered a personal narrative, which challenged attendees to think about why black skin has a stigma attached and the stereotypes black people are held to.


Despite their anger and distress, protesters remained calm, many citing the stereotype of the angry black woman or the angry black man as their reasoning.

Pearson spoke on behalf of many of the minority students at ETSU.

“I’ll be dammed if society thinks they can change me.”

Single dumb kid does single dumb thing.  Both sides react to it by condemning it and talking about it.

But it is still racist.  And he still got that idea from somewhere because "racism" is alive and well in America.

[BmorePat87]

(10-01-2016, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: I guess this is as good a place as any.

http://easttennessean.com/2016/09/28/man-in-a-gorilla-mask-confronts-black-lives-matter-demonstrators-at-etsu/



Single dumb kid does single dumb thing.  Both sides react to it by condemning it and talking about it.

But it is still racist.  And he still got that idea from somewhere because "racism" is alive and well in America.

Is this that overt racism that doesn't occur?

[GMDino]

(10-01-2016, 11:06 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Is this that overt racism that doesn't occur?

Someone will be along to say this was not racist.  Only a racist would think it was.

[GMDino]

Quote:Kentucky House candidate making no apologies for shocking Facebook posts
Posted: Sep 29, 2016 4:04 PM EDTUpdated: Sep 30, 2016 9:05 AM EDT

 

[/url]

 

Photo from Dan Johnson's Facebook page.

 

Photo from Dan Johnson's Facebook page.

 

[url=http://wdrb.images.worldnow.com/images/12010498_G.jpg]Photo from Dan Johnson's Facebook page.

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) – A candidate for Kentucky’s state House is making no apologies for shocking images found on his Facebook page.
Dan Johnson is a Republican challenging an incumbent Democrat in the 49th district, which includes much of Bullitt County.

He is also bishop of the Heart of Fire Church in southeast Louisville.

“I love America. I love people. I believe red, yellow, black and white, all are precious in God's sight. I'm not a racist,” Johnson told WDRB News.

His church sign reads, “Jesus and this church are not politically correct.” 

As WDRB found, neither is Johnson’s Facebook page.

“Well, I'd like to know first off, what images that are being considered offensive,” Johnson said.

WDRB’s Lawrence Smith showed him printouts of images he's either posted or shared, such as a photo of a chimpanzee, labeled as a baby picture of President Barack Obama.

Another image had ape-like features photo-shopped onto pictures of the Obama family.

“It wasn't meant to be racist. I can tell you that. My history's good there. I can see how people would be offended in that. I wasn't trying to offend anybody, but, I think Facebook's entertaining,” Johnson said.

When pressed, Johnson would not acknowledge that the images crossed the line. He calls it satire.

“I looked this up. There has been no president that hasn't had that scrutiny. Not one. I think it would be racist not to do the same for President Obama as we've done for every other president.”

Johnson's Facebook page also contains numerous images of the confederate flag.

“That flag was for state rights. The reason it is under attack now is we're being attacked as state rights and constitutionalists. We are being attacked,” Johnson said.

There are also a number of anti-Islam posts, such as one calling for states to ban Islam.

“My thing for Islam, if you want to be in America, be an American. The thing about all religions in America, they don't oppose America or want to destroy America, or some way or another get us to take on another law, like Sharia law. I hate that,” he said.

Johnson says if the Facebook images cost him votes in November, so be it. He is not apologetic.

“I want to be myself. I would rather be myself than be elected as state representative of the 49th. 

After WDRB contacted Johnson, he deleted many of the controversial posts. 

He says he does not want voters to misunderstand him.

Mac Brown, Chairman of the Republican Party of Kentucky, released a statement Thursday:

Quote:“Dan Johnson’s comments and social media posts are outrageous and have no place in today’s political discourse.  They represent the rankest sort of prejudice present in our society and do not in any way, shape or form represent the views of the Republican Party of Kentucky or the many fine candidates representing us on the ballot this November.  I want to apologize to the members of Kentucky’s African-American community and assure them that this man’s opinions do not reflect those of this Party.  We are proud to carry on our heritage as the party of Lincoln and we will continue to fight for the freedoms of each and every Kentuckian, regardless of race, to thrive and flourish here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.”

On Friday, Rep. Sannie Overly, chair of the Kentucky Democratic Party ,responded to Johnson's comments: 

Quote:Racism does not deserve a slap on the wrist or a second chance. The Kentucky Republican Party Chairman has called these comments outrageous and that they ‘represent the rankest sort of prejudice present in our society’, and I agree. The only decent option would be for this candidate to withdraw from seeking a role as a lawmaker and representative of the people of Kentucky.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/33281914/ky-house-candidate-making-no-apologies-for-shocking-images-on-his-facebook-page


But "wait" you say!!!  "There were pictures of George W. Bush as a chimp because of his big ears and people called him stupid!!!!"

Yes there were!  Good observation!!

I wish you paid attention to history and the link between racists and calling black people gorillas and chimps...but good observation anyway.  At least you were paying attention enough to defend the poor downtrodden white man (singular) who was portrayed as a monkey (for completely different reasons).

[JustWinBaby]

(10-01-2016, 08:45 AM)xxlt Wrote: Funny you mention not being able to get a cab. In NYC in 2016 my white friend hails a cab immediately in front of his building any time day or night. When his clean cut, professional, 40 year old friend who is black tries to hail a cab he can't get one for over an hour, and finally has to call my white friend to come down from his apartment to stop three cabs in five minutes, which all pull away when they realize the ride is for the black guy. Cab four my white friend gets in, then the black friend gets in, then the white friend gets out. This is what a black man has to do in 2016 to get a cab in what some call "the greatest city on earth," New York City. I'm sure if he were rich the indignity would just roll right off.
There is some complete and utter bullshit in this thread, and you are slinging it champ.

There's no way to prove your story is completely made up bullshit, but it sure sounds like it on multiple levels.  My black friends in NY call Uber.  My white friends in NY do the same.  And none of them are waiting around for an hour to call Uber.

It's extremely suspicious stories like the above presented as routine occurrence that make it impossible to take these people seriously.

[*bfine32*]

Not sure what ignorant people being racist has to do with the fallacy of White privilege.

[JustWinBaby]

(10-01-2016, 10:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: Racism will ALWAYS be a problem.

Proving it will always be a problem, and that's why the bar is constantly being lowered below what can be disproven....because you can't be an activist without having a wrong to correct, and you can't have a wrong without having a victim.

And so long as identity politics and victimization continue to be a thing, new forms of hidden and even unintentional "racism" will continue to be created.

Prejudice or bias is natural, even instinctual.  And that's not racism, but we want to shame and punish people for it.


Crossing the street to avoid a drunken group of rough looking teens does not make me a racist ...........................................................even if I, too, am Irish 

[NATI BENGALS]

(10-01-2016, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure what ignorant people being racist has to do with the fallacy of White privilege.

Being white you have the privilege of being labeled a racist because of your skin color. 

Black lives matter because your white privilege makes black cops not black.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2016, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument.

I think the author was attacking white privilege based on the way it's usually "presented". What you say is true, but I think those, for example, that claim that white people need to "check their privilege" are the ones that are misrepresenting white privilege. And I believe it is to those whom the author is addressing.

(10-01-2016, 03:11 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: White privilege is essentially a false proxy for wealth privilege

This. THIS SO MUCH.  

[McC]

This thread illustrates exactly what is going on in America now. It's more important to defend one's predetermined stance on anything, on any problem, any issue than to in any way try to solve it. Let's stand here and argue about it, point fingers, lay blame. Meanwhile, while we're doing all this, the problem remains and we as a people become more and more divided. And you know what they say--divided we fall.

When did we get to this place where we had to have everyone think just like we do or they're idiots? The idea of compromise has left this planet. Maybe gone forever.

Self interest is having an awful effect on the human race. The idea of independence for this former colony might have been formed by a few extraordinary individuals, as great ideas tend to be, but it was accomplished with cooperation.

When we're this busy arguing with each other, the idea of cooperation is nowhere to be found. Will the human race really allow selfishness to bring it down?

[GMDino]

(10-01-2016, 04:12 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Proving it will always be a problem, 

You should have stopped right there.

Lots of proof of racist and racism.

Lots of people saying "Nuh uh" and covering their eyes and ears because they can show a time where there WASN'T racism.

[fredtoast]

Two facts that white privilege exists.

1. Racial profiling has been proven and even admitted to by police officers. It is a privilege for white people not to be subject to racial profiling.

2. Just 25 years ago all across the south the wealthy elite belonged to all white country clubs. This is proof that they were racists. These people were the ones who controlled economic decisions. White people benefited from having the economic powers favor them. They got better jobs, more promotions, and more business contracts than minorities. The economic benefits from this meant that their children went to better schools and had more access to education resources like tutors, computers, summer camps, etc. So this generation is still benefiting from having the people in power favor white people over black people.

[fredtoast]

(09-30-2016, 05:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: EDIT: If you refuse to integrate yourself to a country's culture, you're really just creating your own troubles for yourself. Not just America, it applies everywhere.

So it is okay to discriminate against people with black sounding names.  The blame for the discrimination is with the people who chose those names instead of the people who are actually doing the discrimination?


There are multiple studies in both housing and employment that show a benefit to a "white name" over a "black name".  This is proof that white privilege exists.

[CKwi88]

(10-01-2016, 07:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So it is okay to discriminate against people with black sounding names.  The blame for the discrimination is with the people who chose those names instead of the people who are actually doing the discrimination?


There are multiple studies in both housing and employment that show a benefit to a "white name" over a "black name".  This is proof that white privilege exists.

Nuh uhhhhh

It's proof that "white sounding name privilege" exists. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-01-2016, 07:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Two facts that white privilege exists.

1.  Racial profiling has been proven and even admitted to by police officers.  It is a privilege for white people not to be subject to racial profiling.

2.  Just 25 years ago all across the south the wealthy elite belonged to all white country clubs.  This is proof that they were racists.  These people were the ones who controlled economic decisions.  White people benefited from having the economic powers favor them.  They got better jobs, more promotions, and more business contracts than minorities.  The economic benefits from this meant that their children went to better schools and had more access to education resources like tutors, computers, summer camps, etc.  So this generation is still benefiting from having the people in power favor white people over black people.

Welp, if you can come up with something that happened a quarter century ago; who can argue.

As to the first point: what type of profiling?

[*bfine32*]

(10-01-2016, 07:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So it is okay to discriminate against people with black sounding names.  The blame for the discrimination is with the people who chose those names instead of the people who are actually doing the discrimination?


There are multiple studies in both housing and employment that show a benefit to a "white name" over a "black name".  This is proof that white privilege exists.

So if I'm a white guy with a black name (whatever racist came up with the perimeters for that factor) do I enjoy white privilege? 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-01-2016, 04:12 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Proving it will always be a problem, and that's why the bar is constantly being lowered below what can be disproven....because you can't be an activist without having a wrong to correct, and you can't have a wrong without having a victim.

And so long as identity politics and victimization continue to be a thing, new forms of hidden and even unintentional "racism" will continue to be created.

Prejudice or bias is natural, even instinctual.  And that's not racism, but we want to shame and punish people for it.


Crossing the street to avoid a drunken group of rough looking teens does not make me a racist ...........................................................even if I, too, am Irish 

Is prejudice against other races racism?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-30-2016, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument.

(09-30-2016, 02:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't like the term "white privilege", because it does suggest that the person is being handed something or that they should be ashamed of it. It is also often times mischaracterizes as meaning "White people get things, particularly monetary things". 

No, it just means that if you compare me to another person who grew up with a lower-middle income single mom, but they were black, our experiences would vary because of our race. I would be less likely to get diagnosed with a behavioral problem or disabilities if we acted the same way. If our fathers were arrested with drugs, mine would be more likely to get a plea bargain, less likely to serve jail time, and if they served jail time, would likely serve less time. My father would be more likely to get a job after prison, even if the black kid's dad never went to prison, and equally likely if that kid's dad actually went to college, which my father did not do until the age of 49. When we went to get a job during high school, I would be more likely to get a call back with my Irish and Italian sounding name than if he had a traditionally Black American, African, or Spanish name. 

Obviously somethings can equalize this. Money can be a great equalizer. Having more support at home, which usually comes with having more money, can change this too. This shouldn't be brought up as a "you had it easy!" or "we had it hard!". It should be a "Just remember, we come from different experiences". 

(09-30-2016, 03:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am also not a fan of the term, primarily at this point because it has become such a part of the lexicon of the zeitgeist that it gets thrown around without the real meaning attached. Which leads to the misunderstanding about what it actually is.

The term is really something that is more of an academic tool for the social sciences. It's not something that every person is going to recognize or understand, and that includes the people throwing the term around all the time. I have often heard the term ceterus paribus which means, in essence, all else is the same. You're only changing one thing about the comparisons and everything else is constant. It's a part of the idea of privilege but because the term has become such an overused phrase it has really lost that. I do cringe now when I hear the term tossed around outside of a classroom because it's so often just used incorrectly. And I think when the term was really created, because they were thinking of it more for use in the social sciences, they weren't considering the implications of the word choice to the outside community.

These three post pretty much sum up how I feel about the argument.  A completely misunderstood term by many.  I think that many would benefit from a bit of empathy, or rather trying to walk in others shoes, so to speak.  It's difficult for minorities to understand why whites hate the term and equally difficult for whites to understand why minorities insist that it exist. I'm a strait white male, and I certainly don't feel privileged, but I do understand why others may feel that I am.

[JustWinBaby]

(10-02-2016, 12:51 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Is prejudice against other races racism?

Nope.  Does running from a wild lion make you a lion hater?  Now the lion's feelz may be hurt, but the lion isn't actually being oppressed.

And truth be told, most of these scenarios are less about racial prejudice and much more about geographic or socioeconomic prejudice (which we might more broadly refer to as "gross discomfort" with surroundings)....but that doesn't align with the agitator's playbook.

Prejudice and bias is natural, as the above illustrates.  Acting on those biases in a way that causes unjust harm is racism.  But, again, that doesn't align with the agitator's playbook.

[xxlt]

(10-01-2016, 04:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: There's no way to prove your story is completely made up bullshit, but it sure sounds like it on multiple levels.  My black friends in NY call Uber.  My white friends in NY do the same.  And none of them are waiting around for an hour to call Uber.

It's extremely suspicious stories like the above presented as routine occurrence that make it impossible to take these people seriously.

And that is the beauty of stupidity. If you had watched in transpire you would still not believe it. And remember, if you ever have trouble maintaining your delusional beliefs and rejecting anything that counters them, you can get drugs from your doctor to help you maintain.