The Few, the Proud, the White

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 05:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I wonder why they don't mention that Colin Powell was Head of the JCoS?  I guess the Army is just way less racist than the Marine Corps.

Why "guess" when it says so right in the article?

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why "guess" when it says so right in the article?

Maybe because Helene Cooper is not an expert on diversity in the Military. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 05:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No you didn't.  It is 72 white and zero African-Americans at the highest level. (since the corps was integrated)

Also the numbers I find (most recent 2016) show the Corps to be 11.5% black, but only 5% of officers are black.  And according to this article only 8.5% of generals are black.  Since 8.5% is 35% lower than 11.5% that means they are NOT being promotes at the same rate as their total numbers in the ranks.

If only 5% of the Corps officers are black and 8.5% of the Corps Generals are that means that they are over represented at the General ranks because last I checked 8.5 is a larger number than 5.

The number of black enlisted personnel is completely meaningless to this discussion.

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 05:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Also the numbers I find (most recent 2016) show the Corps to be 11.5% black,

(09-02-2020, 06:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If only 5% of the Corps officers are black and 8.5% of the Corps Generals are that means that they are over represented at the General ranks because last I checked 8.5 is a larger number than 5.

The number of black enlisted personnel is completely meaningless to this discussion.

Why is the percentage of enlisted personnel "meaningless"?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

Why is the percentage of enlisted personnel "meaningless"?

Probably because enlisted personnel can't promote to General?

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 06:48 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Probably because enlisted personnel can't promote to General?

I've heard the White ones can. 

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 06:48 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Probably because enlisted personnel can't promote to General?

Like Gen John W Vessey, Jr. and Robert "Dutch" Huyser say that is not the reason.

(09-02-2020, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've heard the White ones can. 

Why is it limited to just white guys?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've heard the White ones can. 

This clearly caused confusion.

(09-02-2020, 09:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Like Gen John W Vessey, Jr. and Robert "Dutch" Huyser say that is not the reason.

Oh, did those two gentlemen promote from enlisted personnel to General?

Let's see.

General Vessey received a battlefield promotion form First Sergeant to Second Lieutenant on 05/06/1944.  He then promoted through every single officer rank on his way to General.  So, Fred is dead wrong with his first example.

Robert Husyer enlisted in 1943 and then was commissioned a Second Lieutenant after graduating flight school in 1944.  SO Fred is dead wrong in his second example.

Honestly, please stop, I'm getting embarrassed for you and I'm being honest.

Quote:Why is it limited to just white guys?

Seriously, you need to stop.

On a positive note, of the 19 Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps in history, four of them were black men.

https://www.hqmc.marines.mil/smmc/History/#:~:text=The%20post%20of%20Sergeant%20Major,was%20Sergeant%20Major%20Wilbur%20Bestwick.

I guess that doesn't mean anything to some. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 09:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Like Gen John W Vessey, Jr. and Robert "Dutch" Huyser say that is not the reason.






Why is it limited to just white guys?

I get you're trying to save face from an ignorant comment, but 2 things:

Neither of the examples provided were in the Marines, which was the discussion you and SSF were having

Enlisted did get promoted to 2nd LT in extreme cases, but there's a difference between 2LT and General Officer. I can provide you a chart if it will help. 

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 09:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh, did those two gentlemen promote from enlisted personnel to General?

Let's see.

General Vessey received a battlefield promotion form First Sergeant to Second Lieutenant on 05/06/1944.  He then promoted through every single officer rank on his way to General.  So, Fred is dead wrong with his first example.

Robert Husyer enlisted in 1943 and then was commissioned a Second Lieutenant after graduating flight school in 1944.  SO Fred is dead wrong in his second example.

Honestly, please stop, I'm getting embarrassed for you and I'm being honest.

How was I wrong.

Both were enlisted men that became Generals

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 09:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Neither of the examples provided were in the Marines, which was the discussion you and SSF were having

But the rules are the same for the Marines and the Army.  It is rare but enlisted men can become generals.

Even you said that white guys could do it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 09:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How was I wrong.

Both were enlisted men that became Generals

You're either really struggling here or trolling, so I'm going to respond to this and move on.  Once an enlisted person receives a commission to Second Lieutenant they are no longer an enlisted personnel.  Officer can, eventually, be promoted to General rank, enlisted personnel absolutely cannot.

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 09:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But the rules are the same for the Marines and the Army.  It is rare but enlisted men can become generals.

Yes the rules are the same, Only O-6s can promote to General, not Enlisted.

SSF may feel sorry for you but I'm just sucking up the entertainment value. Please continue. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 09:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But the rules are the same for the Marines and the Army.  It is rare but enlisted men can become generals.

Nah, they can't

Quote:Even you said that white guys could do it.

OK, you are trolling, that's the end of this thread. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 09:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes the rules are the same, Only O-6s can promote to General*, not Enlisted.

SSF may feel sorry for you but I'm just sucking up the entertainment value. Please continue. 

*Brigadier General, or Rear Admiral.  That's the kind of technicality he'll be all over.

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've heard the White ones can. 

(09-02-2020, 09:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This clearly caused confusion.

(09-02-2020, 09:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even you said that white guys could do it.

I take it back. I am a little embarrassed for you

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 09:44 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Once an enlisted person receives a commission to Second Lieutenant they are no longer an enlisted personnel.  Officer can, eventually, be promoted to General rank, enlisted personnel absolutely cannot.

An enlisted person can become an officer.  Then he can become a general.

So an enlisted person can become a general.

[fredtoast]

(09-02-2020, 09:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes the rules are the same, Only O-6s can promote to General, not Enlisted.

SSF may feel sorry for you but I'm just sucking up the entertainment value. Please continue. 

Then how did the two enlisted men Vessey and Huyser become generals if it is not possible?

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 09:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then how did the two enlisted men Vessey and Huyser become generals if it is not possible?

Yes, you're right, But only the white ones

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-02-2020, 10:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, you're right, But only the white ones

That's why he used those two examples.  But seriously folks, this conversation has taken a turn for the absurd.  Fred, sincerely and not in a provocative manner, it's ok to admit you were wrong when it's proven that you were.  Doubling down doesn't help and we'd all respect the integrity it takes to admit you were wrong.