The Iran deal

[hollodero]

Disclaimer, I'm not an expert on the deal, chances are it's a flawed one, I wouldn't dare say.

But if Trump blows it up today, that would be a severe sign to the world that a contract with the US isn't worth negotiating in the first place. It would mean your political parties stand so fundamentally opposed that one can't reach an agreement with the USA, just with one of your parties. With great chances the other party doesn't respect it, based on facts or just based on principle.

I also would expect this a weakening of Trump's position towards North Korea, because what exactly should Kim fancy about any agreement that might not be worth the time and the paper to begin with. Similar goes for other countries like Europe. Trump would severly insult allies and there just can't be any other reaction as regarding the US as an unreliable player that can no longer be trusted. (The Kurds tell us that for a long time now.) I don't want to overstate things, but I can't see any other reaction.

I'm certain the US can still bully through and be fine, but nevertheless I believe the US would weaken itself for the foreseeable future on the world stage. It would also make the world less safe. For starters, I can't imagine Iran not trying to get the bomb as soon as possible after that one, other countries probably following that path.

Discuss :)

[fredtoast]

If it was just a deal between the US and Iran it would not be as bad. But the Obama administration put together a large coalition of countries in order to get the sanctions required to force Iran into the deal. Some of those countries were hurt financially more than the US by cutting off business ties with Iran.

If we break this deal it will not be just Iran claiming we are evil and untrustworthy (they were already doing that anyway). It will also be all the countries that the prior administration got to work with us.

I feel that unless the US is attacked directly we should not try to be players in global issues without being part of a coalition. It costs us too much to try and run the world by ourselves. If Trump backs out of this it will damage our future ability to have influence in foreign affairs.

[GMDino]

What you both fail to understand is that Trump's entire agenda is trying to prove he is smarter and better than Obama.  It doesn't matter if its a good deal or a bad deal...it's Obama's deal.

Any consequences do not matter either as Trump doesn't deal with those.  He deals with the mindset that HE is the deal maker.  Anything bad that occurs after those deals is completely ignored by him.

(Actually I know you know that....)

[*bfine32*]

I hope that Trump Okays the Iranian deal whether he likes it or not should be irrelevant. The administration duly elected by the citizenry agreed to the deal. I would not mind if he backed out at the first signs of violation or foul play.

[Millhouse]

(05-08-2018, 01:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope that Trump Okays the Iranian deal whether he likes it or not should be irrelevant. The administration duly elected by the citizenry agreed to the deal. I would not mind if he backed out at the first signs of violation or foul play.

That's where I am on it too, even though it was not a good deal to begin with.

[hollodero]

(05-08-2018, 01:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope that Trump Okays the Iranian deal whether he likes it or not should be irrelevant. The administration duly elected by the citizenry agreed to the deal. I would not mind if he backed out at the first signs of violation or foul play.

 that sounds reasonable to me. And sure, if there's evidence of a breach by the Iranians, the deal can be cancelled. But please let the evidence not just be Netanyahu ostentatiously selling old news.

[CKwi88]

Well, they're reporting that Trump is indeed withdrawing from it.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2018, 02:02 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Well, they're reporting that Trump is indeed withdrawing from it.

Anyone else smell a huge weapons deal for Israel and Saudi Arabia?  A few billion in missile defense from US contractors maybe?

Also look at how much Trump boosted our military spending.  Maybe we need to justify some of that with more military intervention in the middle east.  Lots of money to be made off a war.

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-08-2018, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone else smell a huge weapons deal for Israel and Saudi Arabia?  A few billion in missile defense from US contractors maybe?

Also look at how much Trump boosted our military spending.  Maybe we need to justify some of that with more military intervention in the middle east.  Lots of money to be made off a war.

Considering that Israel gets billions in US aid IIRC, this would end up being a great way to funnel tax payer money into missile defense and other military contractors' coffers.

[Goalpost]

Preliminary says we are backing out with a 90 day window to try and fix it.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-08-2018, 02:02 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Well, they're reporting that Trump is indeed withdrawing from it.

Excellent.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-08-2018, 02:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone else smell a huge weapons deal for Israel and Saudi Arabia?  A few billion in missile defense from US contractors maybe?

Also look at how much Trump boosted our military spending.  Maybe we need to justify some of that with more military intervention in the middle east.  Lots of money to be made off a war.

We need to be focusing the military on Central America. Let the new ME coalition with the Middle East.

[GMDino]

(05-08-2018, 02:38 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Preliminary says we are backing out with a 90 day window to try and fix it.

Fix what?

Typical of Trump he claims that are yuge problems...but never says what they are.

[GMDino]

Well, he pulled out.  (Something I ber Melania wished he was good at.  )

Of course he lies so much no one can believe a single reason he gave for it, can they?

And now the US has thumbed its nose at it's allies and looks untrustworthy when making other deals.

He's a sad little man.

But I'm sure the regulars will be in to say he is s tough guy....

[hollodero]

(05-08-2018, 03:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: And now the US has thumbed its nose at it's allies and looks untrustworthy when making other deals.

Yup.
As far as I'm concerned, I now wouldn't trust the US any longer on anything for years to come. Contracts or deals aren't worth the effort and the paper they're printed on.

Have fun in that role.

[GMDino]

(05-08-2018, 03:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yup.
As far as I'm concerned, I now wouldn't trust the US any longer on anything for years to come. Contracts or deals aren't worth the effort and the paper they're printed on.

Have fun in that role.

He threatened everyone who disagrees with him too.

Meanwhile he's trying to do a similar deal with NK?  And his fans can't see the irony.

[Yojimbo]

The biggest problem with leaving the Iran deal, is Trump is now going to turn around and negotiate a deal with North Korea. Anybody think that just got A LOT harder to do?

[GMDino]

(05-08-2018, 01:39 PM)hollodero Wrote:  that sounds reasonable to me. And sure, if there's evidence of a breach by the Iranians, the deal can be cancelled. But please let the evidence not just be Netanyahu ostentatiously selling old news.

I just can't see how anything could go wrong by a President following bad evidence.

[fredtoast]

Maybe he will just rearrange a few words or phrases and then make a big fanfare over signing the newer better deal.  In fact many people are calling it the best deal ever negotiated.

[BengalHawk62]

(05-08-2018, 03:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well, he pulled out.  (Something I ber Melania wished he was good at.  )

Of course he lies so much no one can believe a single reason he gave for it, can they?

And now the US has thumbed its nose at it's allies and looks untrustworthy when making other deals.

He's a sad little man.

But I'm sure the regulars will be in to say he is s tough guy....

His supporters are already giving him the Nobel Peace for neutering NK. This will rank right up there with that.