The Justices spar over the constitutionality of the death penalty

[BmorePat87]

I found the opinions for Glossip v Gross (which found, 5-4, that a certain lethal injection did not violate the 8th amendment) to be quite interesting.

In it, Breyer argues in his dissent that the death penalty may very well be unconstitutional. He calls on the Court to decide whether or not it violates the 8th amendment, calling the current use of capital punishment unreliable and arbitrary. He says that the states have failed in the 40 years since the Court entrusted them with the job of making sure the application of the death penalty protected against any constitutional problems.

Thomas and Scalia each have their own concurring opinions that are aimed at attacking Breyer's claims. Scalia's focuses on the fact that there are references to capital punishment in the Constitution making it absurd to suggest that it could be unconstitutional. He also disagrees with the claim that it is arbitrarily applied and does not act as a deterrent. He suggests that the issue isn't capital punishment itself but the delays and problems associated it that are the fault of the state.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-7955_aplc.pdf

Have a read. They're far more brutal to each other than we are in our threads.

[CKwi88]

While it's my personal opinion that capital punishment is certainly cruel and unusual, there is legal precedence for the constitutionality of the death penalty. I think that the fight to end such a backwards, barbaric, and wasteful procedure in one of the few "developed" nations that still allow it would take a very long time.


Edit: it is really funny to see that our Justices can be just as petty as the common citizen.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2015, 04:06 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Edit: it is really funny to see that our Justices can be just as petty as the common citizen.

Truly representative of the people.

[fredtoast]

My issue with the Death penalty has nothing to do with it being too "cruel and unusual". Instead it is all about the fact that the judicial justice system is just too flawed to be allowed to make life and death decisions.

There is too big of a chance of killing an innocent person. There are too many mistakes made, and it has gotten to the point where everyone who is honest with himself realizes this. And I don't know how anyone coild be in favor of killing innocent people.

In my opinion if there is a god that sits in judgment anyone who supports the death penalty knowing how flawed the system is will have to answer to that god for any innocent lives taken by the death penalty.

[CKwi88]

(06-29-2015, 05:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My issue with the Death penalty has nothing to do with it being too "cruel and unusual".  Instead it is all about the fact that the judicial justice system is just too flawed to be allowed to make life and death decisions.

There is too big of a chance of killing an innocent person.  There are too many mistakes made, and it has gotten to the point where everyone who is honest with himself realizes this.  And I don't know how anyone coild be in favor of killing innocent people.

In my opinion if there is a god that sits in judgment anyone who supports the death penalty knowing how flawed the system is will have to answer to that god for any innocent lives taken by the death penalty.

Another solid point. One innocent death is too many to justify the death penalty, and we all know that a lot more than one innocent person has been put to death.

[StLucieBengal]

I'm torn on the death penalty. But I certainly don't want any mistakes made either.

These death penalty level criminals should get rough sentence . Maybe life in solitary.... Idk but they should be stripped of every luxury. Including the luxury to spend time with others

[Belsnickel]

I typed out a response earlier, but apparently did not hit post.

I agree with Sotomayor's dissent. The responsibility of the inmates to provide that there is a better alternative is a ridiculous requirement. The evidence exists in this case to show that the use of this drug is problematic.

I do not agree with Breyer about the constitutionality of the death penalty, however. I am against the death penalty for a number of reasons, the biggest being that the imperfection of government should not be making the decision to end someone's life. I do also find it inhumane and think any way that we may come up with to execute someone is cruel and unusual in today's civilized world, but judicial precedence is against me on that one.

[Belsnickel]

(06-29-2015, 05:36 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I'm torn on the death penalty.   But I certainly don't want any mistakes made either.    

These death penalty level criminals should get rough sentence .  Maybe life in solitary.... Idk but they should be stripped of every luxury.   Including the luxury to spend time with others

Life in solitary would be cruel and unusual, as well. If I remember correctly the death penalty is not the only thing that we have been holding onto longer than our more developed nation brethren, but also the heavy handed use of solitary confinement. It has been shown to have many ill effects physically, mentally, and emotionally on those that go through it and several organizations, including the UN, are very much against it when discussing human rights.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-29-2015, 05:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Life in solitary would be cruel and unusual, as well. If I remember correctly the death penalty is not the only thing that we have been holding onto longer than our more developed nation brethren, but also the heavy handed use of solitary confinement. It has been shown to have many ill effects physically, mentally, and emotionally on those that go through it and several organizations, including the UN, are very much against it when discussing human rights.

Yeah I agree somewhat with you which is why I am torn. I think we have serious issues with incarceration as a whole. I would like to see a lot of laws be leasened and then focus on the serious offenders.... Even more harsh in some cases.

I do not trust the UN on anything.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

I'm not a death penalty fan. I don't think it's my place, or anyone else's for that matter, to decide that another human being should die....regardless of the circumstance. Given the fact that the justice system can be flawed and innocent people can be murdered by the courts is the top reason for my disapproval though.

[*bfine32*]

I have always found it ironic that most that are anti-Capital Punishment are Pro-Choice.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(06-29-2015, 11:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have always found it ironic that most that are anti-Capital Punishment are Pro-Choice.

And here is one of those rare occasions when we agree.

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2015, 11:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have always found it ironic that most that are anti-Capital Punishment are Pro-Choice.

Because you don't understand what ironic means. The two issues have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

But I do find it interesting that so many people who claim to be Christians are in favor of killing innocent people.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Long ago, I was for the death penalty but now I'm not.

There is no way I could sit on a jury and sentence someone to death. It would crush my soul and I believe damn me to Hell.

Maybe if there was video of an adult stalking a child for a week, grabbing that child, raping, torturing and then murdering that child, maybe I could sentence that adult to death but I don't know.

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2015, 12:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because you don't understand what ironic means.  The two issues have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

But I do find it interesting that so many people who claim to be Christians are in favor of killing innocent people.

Fred with the patented ´”You don’t know words” retort. 

Ironic means “given to Irony”.  Irony means “The opposite of expected”

I find it Ironic that folks that state we cannot have Capital Punishment because there is a very slim chance we might kill an innocent person have zero problem with taking innocent life because it is an inconvenience. 
 

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2015, 12:33 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Long ago, I was for the death penalty but now I'm not.

There is no way I could sit on a jury and sentence someone to death. It would crush my soul and I believe damn me to Hell.

Maybe if there was video of an adult stalking a child for a week, grabbing that child, raping, torturing and then murdering that child, maybe I could sentence that adult to death but I don't know.

I view Abortion just as I do Capital Punishment: Both should be reserved for extreme circumstances.  

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2015, 12:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Fred with the patented ´”You don’t know words” retort. 

Ironic means “given to Irony”.  Irony means “The opposite of expected”

I find it Ironic that folks that state we cannot have Capital Punishment because there is a very slim chance we might kill an innocent person have zero problem with taking innocent life because it is an inconvenience. 
 

I say that the issues are not the same because a fetus is not a person, but just for the sake of argument, let's say  that I agree with you.

Why are so many Christians in favor of the death penalty when there is such a big chance that it will take the lives of innocent people?

[*bfine32*]

(06-30-2015, 12:50 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I say that the issues are not the same because a fetus is not a person, but just for the sake of argument, let's say  that I agree with you.

Why are so many Christians in favor of the death penalty when there is such a big chance that it will take the lives of innocent people?

Most likely because the Bible calls for death in the case of intentional murder.  The bible also says we (society) should take special care to ensure the innocent are not punished unjustly.

So, as a Christian we have to hope the Justice system (society) gets it right or we would have to be against every form of punishment.

You can say it makes no sense for a Christian to be for the death penalty; can you also say it makes no sense for a Christian to be against Life in Prison.

[Benton]

(06-29-2015, 05:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My issue with the Death penalty has nothing to do with it being too "cruel and unusual".  Instead it is all about the fact that the judicial justice system is just too flawed to be allowed to make life and death decisions.

There is too big of a chance of killing an innocent person.  There are too many mistakes made, and it has gotten to the point where everyone who is honest with himself realizes this.  And I don't know how anyone coild be in favor of killing innocent people.

In my opinion if there is a god that sits in judgment anyone who supports the death penalty knowing how flawed the system is will have to answer to that god for any innocent lives taken by the death penalty.

Pretty well sums up my opinion. I don't think it's unconstitutional, but at the same time, I don't think the benefit (permanently removing a guilty person) outweighs the cost (murdering an innocent person). A few hundred years ago it was more difficult to incarcerate someone for life. Now, it's not as much of an issue.

And, personally, I think it only leads to more people falsely admitting they committed murder. If the death penalty is a possible punishment and someone accused of murder thinks there's a reasonable chance they will get convicted, confessing to a crime they didn't commit to get life in prison beats getting killed.

(06-29-2015, 11:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have always found it ironic that most that are anti-Capital Punishment are Pro-Choice.

And I find it weird when pro-life people are pro-capital punishment. It's ok to kill an innocent adult, but it's worse to murder an innocent baby? A life is a life, all of them sacred. 

[Devils Advocate]

There wouldn't be an issue with capital punishment if the letter of the law were followed ie beyond all reasonable doubt moreover, if jury's actually served their purpose, perhaps more aptly put, understood the scope of their duty to the fullest, it may be more practical. As it stands, the system is too flawed for the death penalty to be applied. Maybe a pre requisite could be where a defendant pleads guilty, but even then false confessions must be considered, although those differ from plea's.