The Left Is Cancelling Dr Seuss

[Mickeypoo]

(03-03-2021, 01:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: You just spoke out of both sides of your mouth. You just said you "don't really like labels like left and right"...then said, "Those particular professions have a strong tendency to lean very left".

I don't like labels.  I just stated a fact. 

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2021, 01:17 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't like labels.  I just stated a fact. 

WTF does this even mean?

Labels are only facts when you use them?

[Au165]

(03-03-2021, 01:17 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't like labels.  I just stated a fact. 

..then used them. Hence why you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Your actions don't match your stated position.

[masonbengals fan]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/03/why-the-cancellation-of-dr-seuss-matters/

Good read... IMHO

It's all those damn Sneetches fault.

[Mickeypoo]

(03-03-2021, 01:24 PM)Au165 Wrote: ..then used them. Hence why you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Your actions don't match your stated position.

I see........so those professions mentioned are mostly right leaning?

[Mickeypoo]

(03-03-2021, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF does this even mean?

Labels are only facts when you use them?

Your the lawyer.  I thought you were smartererer.  Left leaning in general.  I didn't call anyone a leftist.

[BmorePat87]

(03-03-2021, 01:38 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/03/why-the-cancellation-of-dr-seuss-matters/

Good read... IMHO

It's all those damn Sneetches fault.

The flaw with this author is that he seeks to distort every argument he addresses. 

No one is canceling Dr. Seuss. He even notes at the end that "the Left" says this before completely distorting that too. Making the decision to stop the future publication of 6 books isn't canceling nor is it some slippery slope to stopping people from reading any Dr. Seuss books.
 
Responding to all criticism by calling it attempts to "cancel" and label him as "racist", the author fails to actually make any point. 

It's possible to appreciate the Cat in the Hat while also acknowledging that Dr. Seuss had a history of drawing offensive caricatures and included some in his books. It's possible to recognize that the Sneetches lesson of tolerance isn't the best lesson and doing so doesn't suggest that Seuss was racist. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-03-2021, 01:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: And there were people who were upset by these attempts/actions.  Right now the cancelling is coming largely from the far left, hence the complaints about it are largely coming from right leaning people.

People are free to complain, I just think the whole culture wars stuff taking over an entire political party is a bit irksome.  That's the wacky part.  Hasbro changed Mr. Potato head....so vote for our side!  

And I also recall The Lorax being a controversial book and/or banned in places decades ago. Again, the notion that cancel culture is new or that it is a sign that we've become weak just seems like the most blatant political smokescreen there is.

[Au165]

Who remembers the push to call French Fries "Freedom Fries" because France wouldn't support the war in Iraq (spoiler alert they were right)?

[GMDino]

(03-03-2021, 04:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: Who remembers the push to call French Fries "Freedom Fries" because France wouldn't support the war in Iraq (spoiler alert they were right)?

There's a history of this on both sides.  One side calls it a "culture war".  Same side that declares there is a "war on Christmas".

I'm old enough to remember when the right didn't like kids reading Dr. Seuss.

Fox News Declares The Lorax Is Indoctrinating Your Children

Or going to see Batman

Rush Limbaugh: Batman Villain Was Named “Bane” To Hurt Mitt Romney

[Dill]

(03-03-2021, 04:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People are free to complain, I just think the whole culture wars stuff taking over an entire political party is a bit irksome.  That's the wacky part.  Hasbro changed Mr. Potato head....so vote for our side!  

And I also recall The Lorax being a controversial book and/or banned in places decades ago.  Again, the notion that cancel culture is new or that it is a sign that we've become weak just seems like the most blatant political smokescreen there is.

It's as if there is a general cultural amnesia

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/aug/24/tea-party-banning-books

LGBQT content, anyone? http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10

https://theweek.com/speedreads/732851/republicans-want-ban-books-about-wizards-magic-from-schools-millennials-just-want-horoscopes

To all this one could add the decades of censorship of school history texts.

I will gladly contest most "left" censorship based on "trigger warnings" and the like too.

But there is a breathtaking blindness to claims that some far left cancel culture has struck down Seuss.

Or maybe not. The people making such claims can count on their never being challenged by the people they want to address.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-03-2021, 04:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People are free to complain, I just think the whole culture wars stuff taking over an entire political party is a bit irksome.  That's the wacky part.  Hasbro changed Mr. Potato head....so vote for our side!  

And I also recall The Lorax being a controversial book and/or banned in places decades ago.  Again, the notion that cancel culture is new or that it is a sign that we've become weak just seems like the most blatant political smokescreen there is.

Err, yes and no.  It used to be a much slower and deliberate process.  As I stated earlier, now it takes less than ten minutes for the outrage mob on Twitter or other social media to whip up a frenzy over a perceived offense.  I do see some credence in the argument that "cancel culture" is being used to silence people who have opinions that run against the grain of that mob.  One need look no further than protestors gathering outside the homes of private citizens because they were perceived as saying or doing something "problematic".  

It is a problem and while I agree the outrage from the right is both deliberately overstated and hypocritical, I don't think that should invalidate any concerns with this current cultural trend.  At the risk of getting off on a tangent, look at Gina Carano being fired by Lucasfilm.  Then see Bill Burr essentially state that he'd like to comment on it, but he's not trying to get fired too.  These people focus on a person and then grind on them and their employer until they get what they want.  Very few organizations have the spine to tell them to eff off and unfortunately every success only emboldens them more.  Note, I do not think the topic if this thread is an example of this.

[Dill]

(03-03-2021, 04:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: Who remembers the push to call French Fries "Freedom Fries" because France wouldn't support the war in Iraq (spoiler alert they were right)?

Increasing sales AND putting the U.S. first!

[Dill]

(03-03-2021, 04:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: People are free to complain, I just think the whole culture wars stuff taking over an entire political party is a bit irksome.  That's the wacky part.  Hasbro changed Mr. Potato head....so vote for our side!  

And I also recall The Lorax being a controversial book and/or banned in places decades ago.  Again, the notion that cancel culture is new or that it is a sign that we've become weak just seems like the most blatant political smokescreen there is.

I think that "culture war" issues have been fueling movement towards the GOP for the last three decades.

It became much more intense under Obama.

[*Nately120*]

(03-03-2021, 04:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Err, yes and no.  It used to be a much slower and deliberate process.  As I stated earlier, now it takes less than ten minutes for the outrage mob on Twitter or other social media to whip up a frenzy over a perceived offense.  I do see some credence in the argument that "cancel culture" is being used to silence people who have opinions that run against the grain of that mob.  One need look no further than protestors gathering outside the homes of private citizens because they were perceived as saying or doing something "problematic".  

It is a problem and while I agree the outrage from the right is both deliberately overstated and hypocritical, I don't think that should invalidate any concerns with this current cultural trend.  At the risk of getting off on a tangent, look at Gina Carano being fired by Lucasfilm.  Then see Bill Burr essentially state that he'd like to comment on it, but he's not trying to get fired too.  These people focus on a person and then grind on them and their employer until they get what they want.  Very few organizations have the spine to tell them to eff off and unfortunately every success only emboldens them more.  Note, I do not think the topic if this thread is an example of this.

Social media does make it easier to organize outrage but we've also seen pundits and politicians be able to throw their hands and say "Hey, I didn't MAKE anyone do anything!" when stuff gets out of hand, too.

Like I said, there was organized backlash and protests because Johnny Mathis admitted he was gay, and Seals and Crofts got a lot of heat for making a pro life song in 1974 and so on and so forth.  It's just all so efficient thanks to social media, now.

Personally, I'm a member of the "freedom even when/especially when you don't like it" party so I'm not wild about banning anything.  But this is the publisher choosing to not print these books any more.  It's more like Pizza Hut deciding to stop putting anchovies on their menu.  I like anchovies so I keep a tin at home and put them on my pizza myself...so it goes.

Also, LULZ at conservatives for going on and on about not being racist while getting outraged that racist caricatures are getting pushed into the archives.

[BmorePat87]

(03-03-2021, 01:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: And there were people who were upset by these attempts/actions.  Right now the cancelling is coming largely from the far left, hence the complaints about it are largely coming from right leaning people.


I think for many it's the pandering to a small, very loud, group of people who wield influence far beyond what they should.  I will concede that it's currently a right leaning issue because that small, very loud, group of people are very far left leaning.


Hell, I'm old enough to remember the PMRC, headed by Al Gore's wife.  People love a good wedge issue to gin up panic/fear/disgust.  I think what makes today different is that social media gives the ability to generate this inane outrage about anything at a moments notice.  There's a very good reason that very smart people like Dave Chappelle, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Jerry Seinfeld and Norm MacDonald have called out this behavior and trend.

The cancelling of these Dr. Seuss books is a preemptive move on the part of the foundation that owns the rights so they don't become the next target and they get some positive PR out of it.  As I said earlier, I'd have zero issue with replacing the offensive imagery, but that's not really the point.  As I stated above, I think it's the pandering to the screeching social media mob that is bothering people because one has to wonder what is the endgame and how far will it go.  Yes, I realize that sounds crazy in a thread about Dr. Seuss books, but we all know this is not even remotely confined to this one event.

Crazy outrage has taken form in the left and right, though my comments were a playful jab at the OP.

With regards to Seuss, I’d say that there’s been legitimate criticism of his work for a while from those who can speak authoritatively on children’s literature and culture. Is that to say that there aren’t stupid Twitter mobs? Of course not, but as I mentioned in my last post about the article, dismissing legitimate literary critique as cancel culture is flawed.

[masonbengals fan]

(03-03-2021, 03:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The flaw with this author is that he seeks to distort every argument he addresses. 

No one is canceling Dr. Seuss. He even notes at the end that "the Left" says this before completely distorting that too. Making the decision to stop the future publication of 6 books isn't canceling nor is it some slippery slope to stopping people from reading any Dr. Seuss books.
 
Responding to all criticism by calling it attempts to "cancel" and label him as "racist", the author fails to actually make any point. 

It's possible to appreciate the Cat in the Hat while also acknowledging that Dr. Seuss had a history of drawing offensive caricatures and included some in his books. It's possible to recognize that the Sneetches lesson of tolerance isn't the best lesson and doing so doesn't suggest that Seuss was racist. 

 It's actually a great story to teach that lesson.

 https://highheeledteacher.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/using-dr-seuss-to-teach-tolerance-a-dr-king-lesson/

 And just because you fail to see the point doesn't really mean it's not there.

[*jason*]

Donald trump can put these cancelled books in his presidential library... If he ever builds one.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

His Presidential library will just be an iPhone.

[BmorePat87]

(03-03-2021, 05:24 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote:  It's actually a great story to teach that lesson.

 https://highheeledteacher.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/using-dr-seuss-to-teach-tolerance-a-dr-king-lesson/

 And just because you fail to see the point doesn't really mean it's not there.

If I was that teacher teaching in a town that had a 3% Black population in the year 2015, I may have felt like that book was a good way to introduce the idea of tolerance to 5 year olds.

Based on my professional experience teaching secondary social studies at a minority majority school and my graduate studies in education, I do not think it is the best lesson to teach tolerance.

My belief does not mean that I think Dr. Seuss is racist. I think it's a very fine short story, even if it's not the best for teaching that concept. 

The article you posted outright characterized that same criticism as people simply calling him racist. That's illogical and the author's insistence on arguing strawmen is why there's no actual point.