The Making of the Fox News White House

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2019, 03:09 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: 4.  What do you think about the Dems opposition to voter ID laws?  Their claim that voter ID laws are racist and a ploy from the right to suppress millions of legal minority voters that can not afford IDs.  Where’s the evidence that this is true?  Another baseless unproven allegation that the MSM has zero issues running with over and over again.

My evidence is the fact that some Republicans have admitted that voter ID laws will suppress the vote of poorer minorities and help Republicans win.

What do you say about that?

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2019, 03:09 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: 2.  You seem to gloss over the fact that this Federal Panel tasked to investigate voter fraud has been denied access to voter records in states known to have the greatest numbers of illegal immigrants.  

Therefore your argument that widespread illegals voting did not happen because a panel never found evidence when they were not allowed to look at the most obvious places it would have taken place is ridiculous.e evidence that this is true?  Another baseless unproven allegation that the MSM has zero issues running with over and over again.

I believe well over forty states refused to comply.  That includes a lot of deep red states without many undocumente immigrants.

If the president wants the truth then he will have to set up a panel that willing to investigate in a proper manner.

[Stonyhands]

(03-08-2019, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My evidence is the fact that some Republicans have admitted that voter ID laws will suppress the vote of poorer minorities and help Republicans win.

What do you say about that?

I bet those same Republicans said Climate Change is made-up and that Trump didn’t collude with the Russians...

But like with Cohen you can go ahead and pick whatever fits your narrative to actually believe.

[fredtoast]

(03-09-2019, 12:39 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: I bet those same Republicans said Climate Change is made-up and that Trump didn’t collude with the Russians...

But like with Cohen you can go ahead and pick whatever fits your narrative to actually believe.

I think the point went over your head.  

Some Republicans have admitted to something the OTHER side says, not their own.

Get it now?

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think the point went over your head.  

Some Republicans have admitted to something the OTHER side says, not their own.

Get it now?

So by fred logic global warming is a hoax:

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/photos/5-democrats-who-dont-get-global-warming/nope-we-still-dont-get-#top-desktop

Quote:But there are always exceptions to the rule. While most Democrats understand the need for quick and decisive action to fight global warming, there are those who are behind the times. Whether it's because they truly don't believe in the science of global warming or just cherish the cash contributions made to their campaign from the fossil fuel industry, these Democrats have no problem letting green get in the way of their votes. Here are five Democrats who just don't get global warming

Or we could just agree that pointing to exceptions to the rule proves nothing.

Get it now?

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 02:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So by fred logic global warming is a hoax:

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/photos/5-democrats-who-dont-get-global-warming/nope-we-still-dont-get-#top-desktop



Or we could just agree that pointing to exceptions to the rule proves nothing.

Get it now?

No I don't get it.  None of those democrats said Global warming was a hoax.  Instead they just argued about what the best way to deal with it.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No I don't get it.  None of those democrats said Global warming was a hoax.  Instead they just argued about what the best way to deal with it

To be fair I held out little hope.

Quote:Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska raised the ire of his Democratic cohorts last year when he threw his support behind an industry-written alternative bill to cap-and-trade pushed by Republican Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio. The Environmental Defense Fund's Steve Chochran said this about the bill: "It’s a detailed prescription for doing nothing. If you think climate change is a hoax, this is your bill." 

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 04:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To be fair I held out little hope.

Same as I.

Link to Ben Nelson saying climate change is a hoax.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 05:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Same as I.

Link to Ben Nelson saying climate change is a hoax.

I provided you with a link that showed he supported a bill that only people who believe climate change is a hoax should support.

The point has been made (we shouldn't use outliers as evidence), but I don't expect you to acknowledge it. I expect you to continue to move the goal post to show how you're "right".

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 05:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I provided you with a link that showed he supported a bill that only people who believe climate change is a hoax should support.

No you did not.  You posted one persons opinion about that bill.

So, as I said before.  You have not posted a single democrat claiming climate change is a hoax.  You hve just posted examples of people who have different opinions on how it should be addressed.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No you did not.  You posted one persons opinion about that bill.

So, as I said before.  You have not posted a single democrat claiming climate change is a hoax.  You hve just posted examples of people who have different opinions on how it should be addressed.

As I said before: I held out little hope. 

All you have done is suggested (haven't seen a link) a couple folks different opinion on voter ID laws; but for some Fredlike reason; yours has more merit. 

[fredtoast]

(03-11-2019, 06:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said before: I held out little hope. 

All you have done is suggested (haven't seen a link) a couple folks different opinion on voter ID laws; but for some Fredlike reason; yours has more merit. 

Pennsylvania Republican House leader Mike Turzai admitted that the voter ID laws would allow Mitt Romney to win his State during the 2012 election.  And there was no proof of any voter fraud that he could have been talking about.

Wisconsin Republican congressman Glen Grothman also said that voter ID laws would hurt Democrats despite the fact that there is zero evidence that Democrats commit voter fraud any more than Republicans.

Todd Allbaugh, a former Republican legislative aid quit his job over what he heard in a Republican caucus discussing using voter ID laws to suppress the vote of minorities and college students.

Pennsylvania Republican Party Chairman Robert Gleason said that voter ID laws help suppress the number of votes Obama received in 2012. Again no evidence at all that Democrats committed voter fraud more than Republicans. 

Republican consultant Scott Tranter called voter ID laws "part of the party's tool kit".

All of these people know that there is zero evidence that Democrats commit voter fraud more than Republicans.  They know that voter ID laws suppress the vote of the poor who tend to vote more Democrat.

You can brag about your ignorance of how it works as much as you want, but politicians know exactly what the purpose of the voter ID laws are.

[*bfine32*]

(03-11-2019, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pennsylvania Republican House leader Mike Turzai admitted that the voter ID laws would allow Mitt Romney to win his State during the 2012 election.  And there was no proof of any voter fraud that he could have been talking about.

Wisconsin Republican congressman Glen Grothman also said that voter ID laws would hurt Democrats despite the fact that there is zero evidence that Democrats commit voter fraud any more than Republicans.

Todd Allbaugh, a former Republican legislative aid quit his job over what he heard in a Republican caucus discussing using voter ID laws to suppress the vote of minorities and college students.

Pennsylvania Republican Party Chairman Robert Gleason said that voter ID laws help suppress the number of votes Obama received in 2012. Again no evidence at all that Democrats committed voter fraud more than Republicans. 

Republican consultant Scott Tranter called voter ID laws "part of the party's tool kit".

All of these people know that there is zero evidence that Democrats commit voter fraud more than Republicans.  They know that voter ID laws suppress the vote of the poor who tend to vote more Democrat.

You can brag about your ignorance of how it works as much as you want, but politicians know exactly what the purpose of the voter ID laws are.

Cool, you posted 5 opinions and I posted 5 opinions. But the opinions you posted are more empirical because.........

Or you can just admit Stoney's point was valid. The outlier is not proof. 

[BmorePat87]

What evidence is there to justify making voting harder?

And beyond voter ID's, why are states purging voter rolls for living voters, closing voting locations, and restricting early voting?

Shouldn't we be trying to get more people to vote?

[GMDino]

(03-12-2019, 09:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What evidence is there to justify making voting harder?

And beyond voter ID's, why are states purging voter rolls for living voters, closing voting locations, and restricting early voting?

Shouldn't we be trying to get more people to vote?

Because Democrats win sometimes! 

No, all seriousness aside its a GOP plot to lower turnout to those who REALLY WANT To vote and can get there at the prescribed times because THOSE votes are better than when ANYONE can vote.  Obviously.  

Ok, that was a joke too (I think) because the entire thing is sad.  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-12-2019, 09:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What evidence is there to justify making voting harder?

And beyond voter ID's, why are states purging voter rolls for living voters, closing voting locations, and restricting early voting?

Shouldn't we be trying to get more people to vote?

Trying?  I don't think so.  Make voting as available as possible, but if people choose not to vote, that's there choice.  I understand get out the vote for a particular party, but I've never  understood the push just to get people to vote. They all know they can vote.

[BmorePat87]

(03-12-2019, 09:31 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Trying?  I don't think so.  Make voting as available as possible, but if people choose not to vote, that's there choice.  I understand get out the vote for a particular party, but I've never  understood the push just to get people to vote. They all know they can vote.

how about, "trying to make it easier for people to go out and vote?"

I'm all about more forums, more information, more dates to vote. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-12-2019, 09:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What evidence is there to justify making voting harder?

And beyond voter ID's, why are states purging voter rolls for living voters, closing voting locations, and restricting early voting?

Shouldn't we be trying to get more people to vote?

Nothing concrete; but why not try to fix something before it's broken. Many children brought here illegally are closing in of voting age.

I have no problem with the periodic purging of roles as long as no one area is targeted. I have never been a fan of early voting. I would like to see a Holiday such as President's Day retooled to become Election Day

I think the goal is to get more qualified people to vote. If we want more people to vote we can lower the age to 12.

Personally something I struggle with internally is the "qualification" to vote. I feel with this right comes a degree of responsibility.

"Obtaining an ID is in the too hard to do block, but let me vote for the policies of the nation". I get it's an elitist view (aka the struggle), but why do folks continually complain about Trump and his ignorant base and then suggest there should be no responsibility attached to this right?

I can tell you first hand when I went to the polls to cast my vote in 2016 I saw at least 2 people that had never seen the inside of a voting booth in their life and the workers there had to do everything but check the blocks for them. It was quite obvious where their vote was going.

[GMDino]

(03-12-2019, 10:40 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nothing concrete; but why not try to fix something before it's broken. Many children brought here illegally are closing in of voting age.

I have no problem with the periodic purging of roles as long as no one area is targeted. I have never been a fan of early voting. I would like to see a Holiday such as President's Day retooled to become Election Day

I think the goal is to get more qualified people to vote. If we want more people to vote we can lower the age to 12.

Personally something I struggle with internally is the "qualification" to vote. I feel with this right comes a degree of responsibility.

"Obtaining an ID is in the too hard to do block, but let me vote for the policies of the nation". I get it's an elitist view (aka the struggle), but why do folks continually complain about Trump and his ignorant base and then suggest there should be no responsibility attached to this right?

I can tell you first hand when I went to the polls to cast my vote in 2016 I saw at least 2 people that had never seen the inside of a voting booth in their life and the workers there had to do everything but check the blocks for them. It was quite obvious where their vote was going.

I'm not sure why the children made citizen by birth is a concern though.

If they make it harder for "some" to get out to vote than others that does not me those "some" are less responsible or less qualified.  That's why the images of the "poll taxes" come back again and again when officials want to make sure "certain" people can vote.


To the best of my knowledge there is no test to be able to vote...and so there shouldn't be.

Trump's base isn't targeted by the attempts at voter Id, closing of polling stations, shorter voting hours, etc.

But I also saw plenty of first time voters who had no clue...mostly escorted by their parents wearing these funny red hats.   

Some went to school with my daughter who was voting for the first time also.  I explained how it worked before we got there and it went smoothly.  

[*bfine32*]

(03-12-2019, 10:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm not sure why the children made citizen by birth is a concern though.

If they make it harder for "some" to get out to vote than others that does not me those "some" are less responsible or less qualified.  That's why the images of the "poll taxes" come back again and again when officials want to make sure "certain" people can vote.


To the best of my knowledge there is no test to be able to vote...and so there shouldn't be.

Trump's base isn't targeted by the attempts at voter Id, closing of polling stations, shorter voting hours, etc.

But I also saw plenty of first time voters who had no clue...mostly escorted by their parents wearing these funny red hats.   

Some went to school with my daughter who was voting for the first time also.  I explained how it worked before we got there and it went smoothly.  

I wasn't referring to children born here, but those brought here

As I said with Rights comes responsibility IMO, I did say it's a stance I struggle with.

Sure there's no test, but didn't the framers plan for this with the establishment of the EC?

That's why I said such measures shouldn't be targeted.

First time voters are great; let's just hope they know what they are doing.

Why do some request documentation/training to exercise your second amendment right, but require nothing to exercise your right to vote? IMO both require a level of responsibility.