The Mueller Report thread

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 12:03 AM)Benton Wrote: Ok... to be clear... you're saying it's going to be the judge's fault the prosecution all just abandoned this case at the behest of Barr?

Again, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly you're alluding to.


As far as the 'he admitted it but says he's innocent...' it happens. People take plea deals because they realize there's a likelihood that while they're innocent, there's a reasonable chance they'll be convicted. That comes in to play with things like Alford pleas. That's not really the issue here. In reference to the case, Barr has said Flynn pleaded guilty to something that wasn't a crime.  Which is likely Barr trying to set a groundwork for not looking any further into Russian collusion investigations once the administration is out of office.

You are the furthest thing from clear. I didn't say anything close to what you've made up But roll with it. 

[CKwi88]

(05-07-2020, 05:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Our democracy is crumbling before our eyes. The current administration is tearing apart the rule of law.

Agreed. The rule of law is crumbling faster than the quality of discourse in P&R over the last 4 weeks.

[BmorePat87]

(05-09-2020, 11:23 PM)Benton Wrote: The judge is irrelevant when prosecution suddenly says there's no case.

I honestly have no clue what you're implying. You're going to have to be less vague. 

Correct, the judge needing to approve the dismissal is a formality. No judge is going to force the prosecution (Tim Shea) to proceed when the prosecution (Tim Shea) openly states that they have zero intention on continuing.

[BmorePat87]

(05-10-2020, 12:59 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Agreed. The rule of law is crumbling faster than the quality of discourse in P&R over the last 4 weeks.

[Benton]

(05-10-2020, 12:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You are the furthest thing from clear. I didn't say anything close to what you've made up But roll with it. 

Again... I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Just saying 'look at what the judge is doing' makes no damn sense. 

[Dill]

(05-09-2020, 09:58 PM)Benton Wrote: The difference, I'm sure you're aware, is that the tarmac meetings were allegations of wrongdoing as opposed to someone actually admitting to wrongdoing only to get off because the wrong he was doing was in favor of those in power.

Flynn has retracted his "admission."

Until someone can prove that Flynn was telling the truth when he admitted that he lied to the FBI about

1) ACTUALLY taking money from Turkey while also working for the Trump campaign and serving as National Security Advisor, and then FAILING TO DISCLOSE THAT FACT,

and 2) to Mike Pence and the FBI about his clandestine talks with the Russian Ambassador regarding a roll back Obama's punitive sanctions, which the FBI recorded,

then his retraction of that earlier admission guilt makes all this just "tomato-tomato."

Or maybe not even that. Bill has NEVER retracted his admission that he visited Lynch on the Tarmac.

Prosecutor has resigned too so that means there is nothing there.

Anyway, this meme proves what happened in Phoenix.

[GMDino]

Not for nothing but anyone who wants to be "above the politics" should look at the entirety of Flynn trying to take back his guilty plea.  He had opportunities but those involved him being required to make admissions that he refused to make.

I'm no lawyer.  I try to read and follow the people who understand the law around such things.  But the DOJ saying (now) that "oops...never mind" is a one shot deal that won;'t work for me or bfine or Benton if the FBI decides to asks a question they already know the answer too and we lie without a lawyer present.  Especially if it is about a law we broke.

That's the corruption.  

And I'll add that i's also another sign of Trump's cowardice.  He won't issue a pardon because it looks bad and he's afraid of what the public says.  Instead he has Barr do his personal bidding.

As an aside to that, remember when some thought Barr would be a steadying hand in the DOJ and others (me) thought he would just be a "respected name" that does whatever Trump wants to cover for him because of the things he's done in his past?  Yeah, good times.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2020, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's a very good chance the FBI had corrupt motives in its pursuit of Flynn, but that doesn't matter because they caught him in a lie. 

Don't blame the poor criminal for lying.

Blame law enforcement for asking the question.

This is becomeing qute a pattern with you, isn't it?

Anyone in the Trump administration who does anything wring is just a poor victim of society.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2020, 11:54 AM)bfine32 Wrote:  tarmac meeting chance encounters to discuss "grandkids". 

(05-09-2020, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure; as I said, it will only be non-corrupt when we go back to tarmac meetings chance encounters and days of the fast and furious. 

OMG I just love the way the right wing echo chamber goes on about the "tarmac meeting".

It is absolute proof of corruption to all of them because apparently it occured before the invention of the telephone which would have allowed Bill to speak to Lynch absolutely any time he wanted to.



Not sure why they are not claiming that the fact Bill owned a phone is proof he is corrupt.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 03:00 AM)Benton Wrote: Again... I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Just saying 'look at what the judge is doing' makes no damn sense. 

Flynn's admission is in dispute, it is not lawfully upheld. That's why the judge cannot consider it in his review of the case.

Does that make damn sense?

[masonbengals fan]

Hillary smashed Bill's phone. 

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2020, 02:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Flynn's admission is in dispute,

Sorry I am jumping into the middle of this, but who says Flynn did not admit to lying to the FBI?

I thought everyone agreed that he did.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't blame the poor criminal for lying.

Blame law enforcement for asking the question.

This is becomeing qute a pattern with you, isn't it?

Anyone in the Trump administration who does anything wring is just a poor victim of society.

This is absolute gold coming from Fred.

A confession of guilt is all the proof Fred needs; LEOs could never coerce a confession.  

15 years of BS destroyed in one short sentence. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry I am jumping into the middle of this, but who says Flynn did not admit to lying to the FBI?

I thought everyone agreed that he did.

He wants to withdraw his guilty plea. Says Feds threatened his son

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2020, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He wants to withdraw his guilty plea. Says Feds threatened his son

I am not talking about the plea deal.  I am talking about the fact that he lied to the FBI.

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2020, 04:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is absolute gold coming from Fred.

A confession of guilt is all the proof Fred needs; LEOs could never coerce a confession.  

15 years of BS destroyed in one short sentence. 

Are you also mad at the Trump administration for coercing Flynn's admissions that he lied?  That is why they foprced him to resign wasn't it?

What type of threat did Pence and Trump use to coerce a false admission from him?

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 04:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Are you also mad at the Trump administration for coercing Flynn's admissions that he lied?  That is why they foprced him to resign wasn't it?

What type of threat did Pence and Trump use to coerce a false admission from him?

Strawman aside. I've not defended Flynn, Trump, Pence or anyone else. I just think dismissing possible acts of misconduct by the FBI as simply as "He admitted it" doesn't mean the tactics used shouldn't be investigated.


But your stance of: 
"If they admitted it, they did it" will quell many future other discussions. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2020, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not talking about the plea deal.  I am talking about the fact that he lied to the FBI.

Me too. I've asked for your view a few times in this thread and now that you've provided it; it's absolute gold.

[Benton]

(05-10-2020, 02:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Flynn's admission is in dispute, it is not lawfully upheld. That's why the judge cannot consider it in his review of the case.

Does that make damn sense?

In dispute by who? Either way, it doesn't matter with what happened. Barr
is disputing Flynn did anything illegal.

And no, that's not relevant to the judge. Prosecution (Barr) is saying no crime was committed.

[Belsnickel]

(05-10-2020, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Strawman aside. I've not defended Flynn, Trump, Pence or anyone else. I just think dismissing possible acts of misconduct by the FBI as simply as "He admitted it" doesn't mean the tactics used shouldn't be investigated.


But your stance of: 
"If they admitted it, they did it" will quell many future other discussions. 

The tactics, the alleged misconduct, occurred before he admitted he lied. He lied to the FBI, then he admitted to lying in the courtroom. His guilty plea was an admission of guilt and the tactics used by the FBI didn't get him to admit to lying to them.