Infrastructure Lessons from Venice

[Bengalzona]

Roman pay for individual soldiers varied from place to place and from different times. Initially, an average salary for a regular soldier would have been 112 denarii per year or approximately $313.60 current USD (https://www.reference.com/history/much-did-roman-soldiers-paid-b225d7c5ace6bf73).

But please take that conversion with a grain of salt (literally, as I'll explain later). It is very difficult to make a conversion from then to present due to things like the relative scarcity of comparable goods from each period (everything was generally much more scarce back then). During his time, Julius Caesar doubled soldiers' salaries to about 225 denarii ($630 USD). Domitian increased it to 300 denarri ($540 USD) around 75 AD and Septimius Severus increased it to 500 denarii ($900 USD) around 200 AD.

Centurians had much better pay, ranging from 3,750 to 15,000 denarii (primus pilus, $6,750 to $27,000). Officer salaries probably started around 15,000 dinarii, but are almost impossible to calculate due to the lack of standardization from the many perks and incentives they had available (the gap between classes in ancient Rome was massive).

In addition to their regular pay Roman soldiers were also 'paid' with an allotment of salt, a common additional currency at that time. Also, soldiers relied on a portion of booty from conquests to augment their salaries. Costs for food and their arms were deducted from soldiers' pay.

You weren't going to get rich as a Roman soldier. At the same time, the soldiers were paid in coin and coin was a preferable, but not always common currency throughout the Roman world. The fact that Roman soldiers would show up in an area en masse with coins was a powerful stabilizing economic factor throughout the Empire. The Roman Emperors also used the images on the coins themselves as tools to communicate political messages and propaganda (consider them as somewhat similar to politicians' signs in peoples yards today). Hence, Roman Emperors generally did a pretty good job of making sure the Roman soldiers got their pay.

Land grants were usually a retirement gift, or praemia. They were common and had the additional purpose of settling former soldiers on frontier land near borders. In addition to land grants, soldiers were additionally or alternatively granted a one time monetary gift ranging from 3,000 to 5,000 denarri ($5,400 to $9,000 USD).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-05-2017, 07:38 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Roman pay for individual soldiers varied from place to place and from different times. Initially, an average salary for a regular soldier would have been 112 denarii per year or approximately $313.60 current USD (https://www.reference.com/history/much-did-roman-soldiers-paid-b225d7c5ace6bf73).

But please take that conversion with a grain of salt (literally, as I'll explain later). It is very difficult to make a conversion from then to present due to things like the relative scarcity of comparable goods from each period (everything was generally much more scarce back then). During his time, Julius Caesar doubled soldiers' salaries to about 225 denarii ($630 USD). Domitian increased it to 300 denarri ($540 USD) around 75 AD and Septimius Severus increased it to 500 denarii ($900 USD) around 200 AD.

Centurians had much better pay, ranging from 3,750 to 15,000 denarii (primus pilus, $6,750 to $27,000). Officer salaries probably started around 15,000 dinarii, but are almost impossible to calculate due to the lack of standardization from the many perks and incentives they had available (the gap between classes in ancient Rome was massive).

In addition to their regular pay Roman soldiers were also 'paid' with an allotment of salt, a common additional currency at that time. Also, soldiers relied on a portion of booty from conquests to augment their salaries. Costs for food and their arms were deducted from soldiers' pay.

You weren't going to get rich as a Roman soldier. At the same time, the soldiers were paid in coin and coin was a preferable, but not always common currency throughout the Roman world. The fact that Roman soldiers would show up in an area en masse with coins was a powerful stabilizing economic factor throughout the Empire. The Roman Emperors also used the images on the coins themselves as tools to communicate political messages and propaganda (consider them as somewhat similar to politicians' signs in peoples yards today). Hence, Roman Emperors generally did a pretty good job of making sure the Roman soldiers got their pay.

Land grants were usually a retirement gift, or praemia. They were common and had the additional purpose of settling former soldiers on frontier land near borders. In addition to land grants, soldiers were additionally or alternatively granted a one time monetary gift ranging from 3,000 to 5,000 denarri ($5,400 to $9,000 USD).

But, does that include medical, dental, vision, BAH, gym membership, yada, yada, yada?

Did they have to declare raping and pillaging on their taxes?

[Bengalzona]

(04-05-2017, 07:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: But, does that include medical, dental, vision, BAH, gym membership, yada, yada, yada?

Did they have to declare raping and pillaging on their taxes?

I know that is tongue-in-cheek, but they did have the ancient world equivalent of medical, dental, etc. Around the time of Trajan in the 2nd century AD, doctors known as medici were attached to legions. The medici were the top medical practitioners of the ancient world (partly because of advanced training and partly because of battlefield injury experience).

The housing they built themselves. When a legion set up in an area, they would build a temporary camp and eventually develop that into a stone fort with barracks, bakeries, theaters, brothels, etc. if they were in the area long enough (the longer they were there, the more they built). The legioneers doubled as part-time engineers as they were constantly required to build bridges, roads, aqueducts and fortifications when they were not fighting or trading (but they also had trained engineers attached to each legion to oversee). Those additional skills were one of the greatest strengths of the Roman Army.

The raping and pillaging was similar to how the pirates used to divy stuff up: the higher the rank, the higher the share. Of course, the Emperor was at the top of the pyramid and got his share first. So, I suppose that was sort of like a tax.

[Dill]

(04-04-2017, 09:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think this is actually technically public funding, in the example of the Atlanta interstate. The US Transportation Secretary released the $10m in funds and apparently the Federal Highway Administration has pledged more emergency repair funds. So it's not like Atlanta needs to pass a special tax or anything to pay for this.

I'm not saying unions are entirely bad, and they DO have a purpose, it's just that it's kind of slowly added up to start being a bad thing. I think it was GM or Ford was paying like 4.5 people to do 1 person's job with pensions and benefits and all that.

Unless George Soros decided to gift Atlanta the funds, maintenance of public roadways there is most certainly done by public funding.

[Dill]

(04-05-2017, 12:10 PM)Benton Wrote:

So.... if I'm following you... Atlantans should march on Valdosta and Macon, securing what they need to build their bridge?

If we are talking about saving tax payers money, then all options should be on the table.

[Dill]

(04-05-2017, 07:38 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Roman pay for individual soldiers varied from place to place and from different times. Initially, an average salary for a regular soldier would have been 112 denarii per year or approximately $313.60 current USD (https://www.reference.com/history/much-did-roman-soldiers-paid-b225d7c5ace6bf73).

You weren't going to get rich as a Roman soldier. At the same time, the soldiers were paid in coin and coin was a preferable, but not always common currency throughout the Roman world. The fact that Roman soldiers would show up in an area en masse with coins was a powerful stabilizing economic factor throughout the Empire. The Roman Emperors also used the images on the coins themselves as tools to communicate political messages and propaganda (consider them as somewhat similar to politicians' signs in peoples yards today). Hence, Roman Emperors generally did a pretty good job of making sure the Roman soldiers got their pay.

Did you ever watch the HBO series Rome? I think you would like that very much. They even manufactured the costumes using only materials and dies available in the 1st century BCE.


A couple of issues with the equipment, but on the whole, a good job.

[Bengalzona]

(04-05-2017, 12:10 PM)Benton Wrote:

So.... if I'm following you... Atlantans should march on Valdosta and Macon, securing what they need to build their bridge?

They might what to secure their northern flank by making alliances with Athens and Rome, Georgia first and sharing the spoils with them.

[Bengalzona]

(04-05-2017, 09:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Did you ever watch the HBO series Rome? I think you would like that very much. They even manufactured the costumes using only materials and dies available in the 1st century BCE.


A couple of issues with the equipment, but on the whole, a good job.

I did see that. They did a good job, despite the fact that they all spoke English with an English accent.

You could not make a film today which actually shows how life was back then. There were aspects of Roman society that we are so far removed from that they are alien to us today: live newborn babies being thrown into sewers because they 'appear' sickly, slaves being beaten to death in the streets, slave children being sodomized in public, etc. We literally cannot (and should not) show those things today.