The death of P&R and what it says about where we are.

[samhain]

It's difficult to deny that this subform has been dying a slow death for the last 6 months or so.

It's not for lack of relevant topics.

We're as close to WW3 as we've been since the 1980's. We have a president that barely keeping his shit together if at all. We have two candidates opposing him that are quite possibly as authoritarian as we've ever seen in this country. Shifts in law and public discourse have been seismic.

Still, crickets here, for the most part.

This is a bad symptom, IMO.

To me it's a sign that we've all accepted reality. Both sides are dug in so deep that there will be zero chance of compromise for the foreseeable future. People would rather see the country die a slow, painful death than see the other side get credit for keeping it alive.

Good shit, people. We all get what we deserve in the end.

[*Nately120*]

It's all been said at this point, I guess.  Biden is old and unpopular, Trump is old and unpopular and is going to run for a 3rd time in a row and if he loses he's probably going to run in 2028, too.

After the mid-terms was when it seems like this place fizzled out, possibly due to our conservative-leaning members tapping out a bit after a 3rd disappointing election cycle in a row.  We're left with left-leaning posters who are pessimistic about the democrats and fatalistic about the republicans.

Every day Biden is old and mostly uninspiring.  Every day Trump lies about something insane or proposes something nuts.  Every day DeSantis turns Florida into a bizarre authoritarian paradise.  Every day there is a mass shooting no one even bothers to point out anymore. It's all various shades of crap, and most people don't want to deal with crap unless they're being paid for it.  Truthfully, the fact that I posted so much about politics on a football message board is probably going to rank pretty high on my deathbed regrets list.

So it goes.

[BenZoo2]

This may be my first post in this forum. I’ve read posts in here, just never bothered to reply. It’s virtually impossible, imho, to have a decent political conversation. I’m willing to hear something from someone’s point of view. I feel like i rarely get the same courtesy.

I’m willing to learn something from someone who may be “on the other side” but I feel like once someone thinks they know what side I’m on then that same courtesy isn’t extended to me.

But I agree that it seems like people are to entrenched in their position to ever budge now.


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[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2023, 11:02 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: It’s virtually impossible, imho, to have a decent political But I agree that it seems like people are to entrenched in their position to ever budge now.

I've moved around a decent bit politically in my life, but I've found it mostly just makes more people think you are a dunce and it gives you more things to think back on and think "Gahhh, what a fool I've been!"

If this version of Trump ran for president in 2000 I would have been all in on him, for example.

[samhain]

(03-04-2023, 11:02 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: This may be my first post in this forum.  I’ve read posts in here, just never bothered to reply.  It’s virtually impossible, imho, to have a decent political conversation.  I’m willing to hear something from someone’s point of view.  I feel like i rarely get the same courtesy.  

I’m willing to learn something from someone who may be “on the other side” but I feel like once someone thinks they know what side I’m on then that same courtesy isn’t extended to me.

But I agree that it seems like people are to entrenched in their position to ever budge now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep.  In public discourse, I just keep things to myself.  It's not really worth it.  There's just way too much crazy out there on both sides.

[*Nately120*]

(03-04-2023, 11:34 PM)samhain Wrote: Yep.  In public discourse, I just keep things to myself.  It's not really worth it.  There's just way too much crazy out there on both sides.

I hear ya, though doth not Plato state that the best stomachs are not those which reject all foods?!

[samhain]

(03-05-2023, 12:06 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, though doth not Plato state that the best stomachs are not those which reject all foods?!

I've been fasting intermittently, sometimes for 72 hours at a time for almost 6 months.  Rejecting all foods has made me feel better than I have since I was 25.  Maybe it's a sign.

[guyofthetiger]

I don't think this forum is dead at all. Politics and religion are personal topics. I state my beliefs and could care less if anyone agrees or not. Although, I try to follow the Bible which is 100 percent correct. lol

[*Nately120*]

(03-05-2023, 12:54 AM)samhain Wrote: I've been fasting intermittently, sometimes for 72 hours at a time for almost 6 months.  Rejecting all foods has made me feel better than I have since I was 25.  Maybe it's a sign.

That Plato was full of shit.

[Belsnickel]

I stopped posting as much a while ago for many reasons. One was that I am just ridiculously busy. The other is that I am just trying to lead a healthier life, overall, and the frustration I had posting in here was not great. I stopped watching football several years back for the same reason, I just internalized the stress too much. In this instance it has a lot to do with me being in the field of public policy and administration. Government and how it works is quite literally my field of study and when you have that sort of background it can be infuriating to be in disagreements with people who think they are right about a thing they know next to nothing about.

When this is combined with a general decline in media literacy across the nation I have such a problem engaging in this sort of stuff outside of my research or consulting. My wife consumes more news media than I do because I am just so exhausted by everything. When I am not working I focus my efforts on my volunteer work and that is it. Just trying to help build up the next generation to not be such fuckwits is what I enjoy doing these days. That and continuing to work on my weight loss.

[GMDino]

One thing I have seen is that the "usuals" either stopped posting or got stopped from posting in PnR.

No one liked the personal attacks and constant back and forth between a couple posters (and I was one of them sometimes) but they all still came her to watch the car wreck anyway.  With less of that we have less participation.

Secondly, I personally started doing the same thing as Bels...if it doesn't bring me joy I'm out.  So if I see a bunch of nonsense posted I try not to respond at all.

I suppose there will be those who see any topic that I post , consider it nonsense, and not respond also.  So that plays a factor into it too.  The "why do you only post about republicans" who also only post about democrats, for example.  We all have what we want to talk about.

In the end this forum, like the others will rise and fall as the material and participants change over the years.  There was a post not to long ago in Smack Talk about how IT was dying off.

As long as we are still all posting what we feel is discussion worthy and being as respectful as we can it will be fine.

[*michaelsean*]

Trump and Covid ruined it. Anything not about Trump was deemed irrelevant. Then people kept yelling about authoritarianism while ignoring what was going on during Covid. Even cheering it. The most authoritarian time in my life. But there was a good reason for this authoritarianism in their opinion so it was ok. It was science. Which of course it wasn’t. The definition of science was redefined so people could justify the authoritarianism they pretend to hate. They don’t hate it. They hate it when it doesn’t support their views. That was enough for me. If an interesting topic comes up that doesn’t involve straight political ideology or maybe a religious topic I’ll jump in. Otherwise no thanks.

[hollodero]

(03-05-2023, 08:53 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Trump and Covid ruined it. Anything not about Trump was deemed irrelevant. Then people kept yelling about authoritarianism while ignoring what was going on during Covid. Even cheering it.  The most authoritarian time in my life. But there was a good reason for this authoritarianism in their opinion so it was ok. It was science. Which of course it wasn’t. The definition of science was redefined so people could justify the authoritarianism they pretend to hate. They don’t hate it. They hate it when it doesn’t support their views. That was enough for me. If an interesting topic comes up that doesn’t involve straight political ideology or maybe a religious topic I’ll jump in. Otherwise no thanks.

The authoritarianism through Covid (and my country seriously attemted a general vaccine mandate, so I don't think the term takes it too far) happened in the face of a pandemic and was meant as (and turned out to be) a bunch of temporary measures in times of crisis. Supported by majorities of rightfully elected officials, not so much a coup attempt against democracy. Harsh critizism is legitimate. It's not meant as an excuse when I claim that the authoritarianism displayed by Trump and friends was and is something very different.

[*bengalfan74*]

I likewise haven't posted here for months, not that this was my wheelhouse anyways, but for many of the reasons already listed. People are so entrenched in their belief that they're right and they absolutely refuse to hear the other side. Mudslinging, name calling, arguing starts right from the jump and that's been taught to the public by the so called leaders. It's all they do! They don't care about fixing the country. They care about winning the argument and of course lining their pockets.

It's very hard for me to wrap my head around how far this country and government has devolved. As soon as the balloon thing got going the first three words out of Biden's mouth were Trump, Trump, Trump. The only thing the Trumpster talks about is slamming Biden. I haven't watched 15 minutes of the nightly news in several years now. I can't stand hearing Trump, Biden, Trump, Biden ad nauseum. I pray neither is elected. Biden is a joke, literally. And Trump is an egotistical, lying teenager. Biden is an even bigger liar BTW.

And I'm zero percent interested in turning this into a Trump vs. Biden debate. They both suck in my book. And I'll be quite honest I have no idea who I'm voting for yet.

And there are so very many other issues I have serious problems with, to many to get into here. But the main thing is, I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, yet.

[Belsnickel]

I want to just jump back in here and say that you should not confuse my discouragement with the discourse as apathy towards the political situation in this country. I am still very much engaged, contacting the offices of my elected officials when something peaks my interest. Voting in every election. Even writing letters to the editor of local media around here (yes, I am one of those). I just want to caution folks feeling the same frustration with our situation from slipping into apathy. When the average citizen becomes apathetic, the extremes gain more traction. There will always be jackasses on the extremes looking to pull their politicians towards their views. The more apathetic the majority of citizens become, the more power they hold in setting the agenda for what goes on in our legislative bodies.

It's fine to recognize that you aren't going to change minds, but don't disengage entirely. Make sure you stay active and support those you want to see in office. Encourage your like-minded friends and family to do the same. The apathy of the reasonable will lead to the rise of the unreasonable, and we are seeing enough of that right now.

[CJD]

(03-04-2023, 09:57 PM)samhain Wrote: It's difficult to deny that this subform has been dying a slow death for the last 6 months or so.  

It's not for lack of relevant topics.  

We're as close to WW3 as we've been since the 1980's.  We have a president that barely keeping his shit together if at all.  We have two candidates opposing him that are quite possibly as authoritarian as we've ever seen in this country.  Shifts in law and public discourse have been seismic.  

Still, crickets here, for the most part.

This is a bad symptom, IMO.  

To me it's a sign that we've all accepted reality.  Both sides are dug in so deep that there will be zero chance of compromise for the foreseeable future.  People would rather see the country die a slow, painful death than see the other side get credit for keeping it alive.  

Good shit, people.  We all get what we deserve in the end.

Honestly, I took it as the exact opposite.

I figured that the people here were rational enough that we all agreed that the crazy stuff is crazy and, beyond the crazy stuff, there isn't really anything new going on right now.

When Trump was president, there were people here who felt the need to defend him but now that he and his entire party has just gone off the deep end, I haven't noticed very many openly defending him anymore.

And Biden, while he's clearly not all there and a bit cringy, hasn't done anything wild enough to merit discussing because he's had, relatively speaking, a pretty uncontroversial presidency (unless you're a conspiracy theorist). At least recently. The student debt stuff has already been discussed and he hasn't done too many major things in the last 6 months.

But who knows, maybe I'm making some bad assumptions haha.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Yeah, I gave up years ago when I realized most of the populace believes there are only two choices, while simultaneously bitching about needing change. Why bother?

[hollodero]

I feel many posts here would fit quite nicely in an "the two party system is garbage" thread really. Seems exactly what folks are getting at.

[*Nately120*]

(03-05-2023, 10:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And I'm zero percent interested in turning this into a Trump vs. Biden debate. They both suck in my book. And I'll be quite honest I have no idea who I'm voting for yet.

If you don't like either guy I'd suggest voting for Biden since he will be out of the white house by 2028.  If we let Trump back in, I'm pretty sure he'll spend all 4 years coming up with ways to ensure he is in the position for the rest of his life and possibly able to handpick his successor.  I've been known to joke, but I'm convinced if we go crawling back to him he's going to find a way to lock things down for good.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2023, 07:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If you don't like either guy I'd suggest voting for Biden since he will be out of the white house by 2028.  If we let Trump back in, I'm pretty sure he'll spend all 4 years coming up with ways to ensure he is in the position for the rest of his life and possibly able to handpick his successor.  I've been known to joke, but I'm convinced if we go crawling back to him he's going to find a way to lock things down for good.

I don't particularly disagree with you, other than he wouldn't find a way to lock things down for good. Our system has a lot of flaws, but it's pretty great at ensuring power transfer. I would consider holding my nose and voting for Biden if he were about 6 years younger. I already don't like voting for people I don't like, but I honestly don't love Biden's odds of making it through term 2 alive (86 isn't a great bet). If he dies Kamala Harris takes over the remainder of the term and also gets incumbent status for 2028. 

So I will probably just "throw away" my vote on 3rd party again, assuming we haven't been mutually reduced to radioactive ashes with Russia before this election ever comes about, rendering all this talk pointless.