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The death of P&R and what it says about where we are.
#81
(03-16-2023, 06:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not big on the culture war stuff so I'd go with Biden out of those 3 by default.  I'm not as enthused about my vote as you are, though. 

Gary Johnson and Ron Paul were the only politicians I felt positive supporting, but the GOP has left guys like them in the dust. 

But to the topic at hand, this place seemed to empty out after the midterms. 
 


I was a big Gary Johnson supporter, until he flipped on the TPP. Just my opinion, but that signaled that big money had gotten to him somewhere along the line. I bowed out.

"Better send those refunds..."

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#82
(03-11-2023, 09:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Nobody forced you to get a vaccine that absolutely is effective. Masks absolutely were effective, as well, and no, Biden did not force anyone to wear a mask. Given your understanding of these issues it is probably best you just stay in JN.

Perfect example right here. Many people just cannot have a conversation without throwing shade, belittling, or insulting.

This shit has gotta stop to encourage others to post
-The only bengals fan that has never set foot in Cincinnati 1-15-22
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#83
(03-17-2023, 02:31 PM)basballguy Wrote: Perfect example right here.  Many people just cannot have a conversation without throwing shade, belittling, or insulting.

This shit has gotta stop to encourage others to post

The post to which he replied was pretty shady in itself.  I know we strive to kill each other with kindness, but it's hard.

I will say that it does sort of go along with the reason we can't discuss things anymore because in order to have a logical and civil discussion the parties involved need to be able to establish some form of common ground.  When it comes to covid if people can't agree whether or not the vaccine was mandated and forced upon the populace by the government, what kind of civil discussion can take place?  The viewpoints reflect differing realities.  

It's akin to ranting in Jungle Noise about how Duke Tobin needs to be fired and the Bengals need to draft a QB because we never should have drafted Baker Mayfield.  Joe Burrow is our QB?  Pffft, do your research, sheep.

But the vaccine is old news, because now my gripe is that one of the two political parties we are so graciously given (and the one that can come in second place and still win, coincidentally) is basing their politics around a term they can't or won't operationally define.  We are intentionally being given a landscape that is incompatible with logical and rational discussions. 
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#84
(03-15-2023, 07:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I meant they don't ***** and complain non-stop because he hurt their feelings and blame him for things that he had no control over.

(03-15-2023, 05:20 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The stock market is and economy is heading for a recession and massive layoffs are most likely coming, so will people stop voting on emotion when voting for President?

You can't make this shit up, folks.   Hilarious
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#85
(03-17-2023, 02:31 PM)basballguy Wrote: Perfect example right here. Many people just cannot have a conversation without throwing shade, belittling, or insulting.

This shit has gotta stop to encourage others to post

I don't want to encourage people to post that are incapable of critical thinking. I can have conversations without insulting anyone, I do it all the time and have done so in this forum. I have done it tons with people when our opinions differ. I have no patience for stupidity, though. If you traffic in theories and information that is so blatantly inaccurate based on faulty logic or disprovable facts I will call it as I see it.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#86
(03-17-2023, 09:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: I was a big Gary Johnson supporter, until he flipped on the TPP. Just my opinion, but that signaled that big money had gotten to him somewhere along the line. I bowed out.

It was Bill Weld. 
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#87
(03-17-2023, 08:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't want to encourage people to post that are incapable of critical thinking. I can have conversations without insulting anyone, I do it all the time and have done so in this forum. I have done it tons with people when our opinions differ. I have no patience for stupidity, though. If you traffic in theories and information that is so blatantly inaccurate based on faulty logic or disprovable facts I will call it as I see it.

It's akin to the parodox of tolerance. 

In order to encourage posting and effective discourse, posts that are incontrovertibly made in poor faith and are demonstrably false are deserving of shade, belittlement and insults. 
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#88
(03-17-2023, 09:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: I was a big Gary Johnson supporter, until he flipped on the TPP. Just my opinion, but that signaled that big money had gotten to him somewhere along the line. I bowed out.

I've had a change of heart about TPP, Globalization, isolationism fairly recently.  

I think we're seeing the US go with more isolationist trade policies regardless of the party in power.  In theory, this is fine (for us).  The US has the resources to be almost completely self-sufficient in time.  They just need to get the manufacturing infrastructure up to par to keep the supply chains cranking at warp speed.    

I always figured that this would mean better, higher paying jobs for Americans based on the need for labor.  To an extent, it has.  The only problem with that is that while wages have increased, the cost of goods and services has gone batshit crazy.  Inflation is a thing, and with the higher wages, people keep buying shit as companies keep raising price points.  There's no incentive for them to control prices if people keep paying them, and they are.  

We can have cheap crap fast while making less money with a global economy or we can have expensive stuff that we wait forever on and still can't afford (although the waiting part may go away). It's not that I favor globalism or isolationism, it's that I don't think either make much difference.  Either way, the middle class never wins.  
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#89
(03-17-2023, 05:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The post to which he replied was pretty shady in itself.  I know we strive to kill each other with kindness, but it's hard.

I will say that it does sort of go along with the reason we can't discuss things anymore because in order to have a logical and civil discussion the parties involved need to be able to establish some form of common ground.  When it comes to covid if people can't agree whether or not the vaccine was mandated and forced upon the populace by the government, what kind of civil discussion can take place?  The viewpoints reflect differing realities.  

It's akin to ranting in Jungle Noise about how Duke Tobin needs to be fired and the Bengals need to draft a QB because we never should have drafted Baker Mayfield.  Joe Burrow is our QB?  Pffft, do your research, sheep.

But the vaccine is old news, because now my gripe is that one of the two political parties we are so graciously given (and the one that can come in second place and still win, coincidentally) is basing their politics around a term they can't or won't operationally define.  We are intentionally being given a landscape that is incompatible with logical and rational discussions. 

Yeah, having rational discussion is really tough these days when it comes to politics. My in-laws, love 'em to death, are extremely conservative. Vote straight ticket Republican without any research and walk out of the building. The other day, they asked if the trans movement in younger people was "indoctrination by the left in our schools". That's a tough one to go into, because it is the completely wrong way to look at it. So, you have to try to tell the person they are wrong without explicitly doing so because you don't want them on the defensive and shutting down. 

There are objective facts and realities in many of these conversations. If someone approaches me and tells me that "masks never worked" and the vaccine was worthless, I have to begin that conversation in some way with the assertion that they are in fact wrong. That really bothers people - no one likes being told they are wrong, or that they misunderstood the literature they read, or their favorite media outlet is twisting the factuality of the story etc. 
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#90
(03-04-2023, 10:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's all been said at this point, I guess.  Biden is old and unpopular, Trump is old and unpopular and is going to run for a 3rd time in a row and if he loses he's probably going to run in 2028, too.

After the mid-terms was when it seems like this place fizzled out, possibly due to our conservative-leaning members tapping out a bit after a 3rd disappointing election cycle in a row.  We're left with left-leaning posters who are pessimistic about the democrats and fatalistic about the republicans.

Every day Biden is old and mostly uninspiring.  Every day Trump lies about something insane or proposes something nuts.  Every day DeSantis turns Florida into a bizarre authoritarian paradise.  Every day there is a mass shooting no one even bothers to point out anymore. It's all various shades of crap, and most people don't want to deal with crap unless they're being paid for it.  Truthfully, the fact that I posted so much about politics on a football message board is probably going to rank pretty high on my deathbed regrets list.

So it goes.

Exactly.

It's not that everyone that voted for Biden were huge fans of him.
Many (like myself) preferred a different Democratic candidate.
Trump caused further division. There's no doubt about it. He's always had the mentality of, "If you're not with me, you're against me." He never acted like he wanted to compromise to help shrink the division.
Trump's rhetoric and stances were so polarizing that many were willing to support Biden over Trump simply for the fact they disliked Trump so much.
And people knew that if they voted for a 3rd party candidate or didn't vote at all, it could have resulted in Trump serving a 2nd term, which many did not want.

You're still going to get people who are "Anyone But Trump" voting for whichever Democratic candidate gets the nomination as long as Trump is the GOP nominee.
And you'll probably get some people who (now) feel Biden isn't fit for President to vote for whoever is the GOP candidate.

So if you really want to see more unity/compromise, both of these guys probably need to not be a Presidential nominee moving forward.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Patience has paid off!

Sorry for Party Rocking!

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