The death of P&R and what it says about where we are.

[*Nately120*]

(03-10-2023, 04:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: Did your cousin marry my stepdaughter? Lovely, but definitely batshit crazy lass..

No she had no stepfather because after her ol man cheated on her mom constantly rather than get a divorce she decided to stay with him and torment him until he died of ALS. Shed even bite him to vent her frustrations.  

[Dill]

(03-08-2023, 07:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ida know, I had a bit of a dialog with small town right-wing folks about this and they basically concluded that when the government tells you to wear a mask it is your patriotic duty to disobey, but when the government asks you to stop what you are doing and risk your life and sanity in a foreign war it is your patriotic duty to shut up and march.

So if the government tells you to get a covid vaccine and wear a mask you tell them hell no but if the army tells you to get 100 vaccines and wear a gas mask you say hell yes.

I still don't see how people can say Trump is a good businessman when he had the chance to declare covid a Chinese attack and sell MAGA masks in boxes of 100 to 75 million Americans.  The guy had the chance to legally mandate and patriotically compel people to buy stuff from him.

Yes to the bolded. 


I would only add that it still depends on the president whether you should shut up an march to a foreign war. 

When Bush sent us into Iraq with cooked intel, only TRAITORS criticized that war effort. By god once the fighting starts, we ALL have to be
Americans first. You are siding with the terrorists, otherwise.

Whereas now the MAGA trend is very much against even logistical support to a war in defense of international law. 

Same for the military vaccines. That's coercion if Biden wants it, service/sacrifice to country if Trump does.

PS Trump did compel people to "buy stuff" from him, as the gov. paid millions to put up SS and other staff in his hotels.

[Sled21]

I quit posting down here, or even reading down here, because it was affecting the way I see people in Jungle Noise. That said, I was bored today and looked and I see now DeSantis is being labeled an authoritarian. Which I find ludicrous. Can someone tell me how what happened the other day does not make those of a certain viewpoint look in the mirror to see what they have become? Florida passes a law that the left and media mis-label as "Don't Say Gay", even though the law doesn't say that. Then, they label it a book ban. Then DeSantis has a news conference where he starts reading from the "Banned" books in the children's libraries and the media and twitter cut away and stop the broadcast due to pornographic images displayed...... that are in the books they want in children's libraries. You can't make this crap up. I say thank God for Ron DeSantis. Going back upstairs now.....

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Mostly turned into the same 4 or 5 guys talking to each other and giving thumbs up back and forth to one another while jumping down the throats of anyone that dissents. And of course some people were just banned from the sub forum as well.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-10-2023, 06:44 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I quit posting down here, or even reading down here, because it was affecting the way I see people in Jungle Noise. That said, I was bored today and looked and I see now DeSantis is being labeled an authoritarian. Which I find ludicrous. Can someone tell me how what happened the other day does not make those of a certain viewpoint look in the mirror to see what they have become? Florida passes a law that the left and media mis-label as "Don't Say Gay", even though the law doesn't say that. Then, they label it a book ban. Then DeSantis has a news conference where he starts reading from the "Banned" books in the children's libraries and the media and twitter cut away and stop the broadcast due to pornographic images displayed...... that are in the books they want in children's libraries. You can't make this crap up. I say thank God for Ron DeSantis. Going back upstairs now.....

I try not to pay attention to the culture war stuff.

Went to Fox News for the facts on this story.

And my take away is Desantis’ team told the local news stations they were going to show sexually explicit material and the news stations cut away. Because they were told sexual explicit material was about to be showed. Not because all of a sudden a kindergarten pornography pop up book was being shown.

I didn’t dig too hard. Any actual examples? There was over an hour long video on Twitter that I quickly skimmed through. I was never offended and I have the mind of a child

[NATI BENGALS]

Never mind

Here it is from about 6-8 minute mark

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1rmxPkPXLyMJN?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1633493927306330113%7Ctwgr%5E016ff110cd7170afa66abefd5ca8a43cf35d6ba1%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Flocal-media-cut-feed-desantis-book-ban-hoax-stream-explicit-content

[*Nately120*]

(03-10-2023, 11:46 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Mostly turned into the same 4 or 5 guys talking to each other and giving thumbs up back and forth to one another while jumping down the throats of anyone that dissents. And of course some people were just banned from the sub forum as well.

Maybe the dissenting arguments aren't as compelling as people think.  Or maybe it really is an unreasonable audience that rejects them. 

The important thing is that everyone can feel persecuted. 

[Sled21]

Well, people can call him authoritarian if they want, but Ron DeSantis did not force me to take a vaccine (which has now been shown to not prevent spread, contraction or be any better than natural immunity) , Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. Ron DeSantis did not force me to wear a mask (which have now been shown to be useless) for yeasrs anytime I left my house, Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. I couldn't go anywhere in Kentucky without a mask for years, but I went to Florida to visit a friend and tossed it as I crossed the Florida Georgia line, met him at a cigar bar in Orlando and had beers and smokes) . So I think people have it twisted when they are looking for authoritarians.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2023, 10:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, people can call him authoritarian if they want, but Ron DeSantis did not force me to take a vaccine (which has now been shown to not prevent spread, contraction or be any better than natural immunity) , Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. Ron DeSantis did not force me to wear a mask (which have now been shown to be useless) for yeasrs anytime I left my house, Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. I couldn't go anywhere in Kentucky without a mask for years, but I went to Florida to visit a friend and tossed it as I crossed the Florida Georgia line, met him at a cigar bar in Orlando and had beers and smokes) . So I think people have it twisted when they are looking for authoritarians.

You were forced to be vaccinated?  Im in PA and I know people who didn't get vaccinated and were never secretive about not getting it.  And that mask stuffed happened before the Biden era because I know people around here were saying governor Tom Wolf was the one forcing the mandates.

[samhain]

(03-11-2023, 11:20 AM)Nately120 Wrote: You were forced to be vaccinated?  Im in PA and I know people who didn't get vaccinated and were never secretive about not getting it.  And that mask stuffed happened before the Biden era because I know people around here were saying governor Tom Wolf was the one forcing the mandates.

State/Federal workers were as well as medical personnel.  Otherwise, no unless it was at employer discretion.  I saw a stat that 30 percent of the workforce at my current employer were vaccinated.  As employers love to tell disgruntled employees in these situations, you're free to work somewhere else.

Masks were similar.  Some places required it for entry, at their discretion.  Some people followed the guidelines others didn't.  

I rarely wore a mask outside of work or a hospital during covid.  I must be really lucky, as Beshear/Biden never had me put into a concentration camp.

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2023, 12:21 PM)samhain Wrote: State/Federal workers were as well as medical personnel.  Otherwise, no unless it was at employer discretion.  I saw a stat that 30 percent of the workforce at my current employer were vaccinated.  As employers love to tell disgruntled employees in these situations, you're free to work somewhere else.

Masks were similar.  Some places required it for entry, at their discretion.  Some people followed the guidelines others didn't.  

I rarely wore a mask outside of work or a hospital during covid.  I must be really lucky, as Beshear/Biden never had me put into a concentration camp.

Another thing is that assertions that the Trump/DeSantis/MTG style of the GOP are promoting authoritarian ideas are coming from established members of the GOP itself. 

Not all of the allegations are coming from brainwashed liberal. This stuff is also coming from yesteryears GOP standard bearers.  This is the reason the term RINO has gotten so mich use lately...the GOP is accusing itself of this stuff. 

[samhain]

(03-11-2023, 01:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Another thing is that assertions that the Trump/DeSantis/MTG style of the GOP are promoting authoritarian ideas are coming from established members of the GOP itself. 

Not all of the allegations are coming from brainwashed liberal. This stuff is also coming from yesteryears GOP standard bearers.  This is the reason the term RINO has gotten so mich use lately...the GOP is accusing itself of this stuff. 

Well, with the GOP stuff, I think some on the right realize what the things that these people, DeSantis in particular are doing will mean for them if their party isn't in power.  

Ron going after Disney has some legitimacy due to the privileges they enjoy.  However, if he tries to influence content or abridge speech and succeeds, that's another thing.  Same with the blogger registration issue he's allegedly pushing (or not as he's running from it now).  

It's all fun and games picking on people and companies until you become the person being picked on.  Fox News should be shitting their pants over what he's doing down there.  That network and every douchebag conservative talking head in this country would get their asses sued off until they bled out in court.  In liberal hands, it would end the mouth-breathing conservative cable news movement the second democrats obtained sufficient power.  

Spoiler alert: in this country, there is no situation where either party holds power for any prolonged period of time without backlash.  

Making malicious laws to persecute a political class is moronic in every way.  Whenever a law is made, the legislator should ask what it would mean if a counterpart that they hated obtained the power granted by the law.  Failure to heed this is probably Ron's worst attribute.

[Belsnickel]

(03-11-2023, 10:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, people can call him authoritarian if they want, but Ron DeSantis did not force me to take a vaccine (which has now been shown to not prevent spread, contraction or be any better than natural immunity) , Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. Ron DeSantis did not force me to wear a mask (which have now been shown to be useless) for yeasrs anytime I left my house, Joe Biden and Andy Beshear did. I couldn't go anywhere in Kentucky without a mask for years, but I went to Florida to visit a friend and tossed it as I crossed the Florida Georgia line, met him at a cigar bar in Orlando and had beers and smokes) . So I think people have it twisted when they are looking for authoritarians.

Nobody forced you to get a vaccine that absolutely is effective. Masks absolutely were effective, as well, and no, Biden did not force anyone to wear a mask. Given your understanding of these issues it is probably best you just stay in JN.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(03-11-2023, 09:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Nobody forced you to get a vaccine that absolutely is effective. Masks absolutely were effective, as well, and no, Biden did not force anyone to wear a mask. Given your understanding of these issues it is probably best you just stay in JN.

You are 100% correct! Vaccines do work and masks do help prevent transmission/ spread.  Think of a vaccine as a raincoat in a storm, you're still going to get wet but you're not going to get soaked.  Your body says, "Hey we've seen this guy before and we know how to kick his ass."  So yes as in any fight, you may get a bit roughed up but at the end of the day, you're still going to win the fight.  Never in the history of vaccines has anyone said you'd never get the virus or a little bit sick, you're body's antibodies have already built a defense to counter it so it doesn't make you really sick or kill you.  

As far as masks go, there's a reason why your doctor wears them-- it's so if they sneeze or cough it stops the spray/droplets from infecting everything around them.  

[samhain]

(03-11-2023, 10:14 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: You are 100% correct! Vaccines do work and masks do help prevent transmission/ spread.  Think of a vaccine as a raincoat in a storm, you're still going to get wet but you're not going to get soaked.  Your body says, "Hey we've seen this guy before and we know how to kick his ass."  So yes as in any fight, you may get a bit roughed up but at the end of the day, you're still going to win the fight.  Never in the history of vaccines has anyone said you'd never get the virus or a little bit sick, you're body's antibodies have already built a defense to counter it so it doesn't make you really sick or kill you.  

As far as masks go, there's a reason why your doctor wears them-- it's so if they sneeze or cough it stops the spray/droplets from infecting everything around them.  

I think the issue with the masks is that most people were wearing the wrong ones.  The N95s were largely unavailable and rationed (correctly) to medical personnel.  People just slapped whatever peice of fabric they could find over their pie holes and people, for the most part, thought that was effective.  It wasn't quite that simple.

The vaccines we had here were significantly more effective.  The Chinese vaccine was junk, and they are currently suffering for it.  The Russian vaccine was practically useless.  

The stuff we had here did a decent job of containing symptomatic covid.  Like the flu vaccines, it wasn't perfect.  Every year it's a crapshoot.  That's kind of what vaccines are. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-11-2023, 10:28 PM)samhain Wrote: I think the issue with the masks is that most people were wearing the wrong ones.  The N95s were largely unavailable and rationed (correctly) to medical personnel.  People just slapped whatever peice of fabric they could find over their pie holes and people, for the most part, thought that was effective.  It wasn't quite that simple.

The vaccines we had here were significantly more effective.  The Chinese vaccine was junk, and they are currently suffering for it.  The Russian vaccine was practically useless.  

The stuff we had here did a decent job of containing symptomatic covid.  Like the flu vaccines, it wasn't perfect.  Every year it's a crapshoot.  That's kind of what vaccines are. 

Trump and DeSantis both praised and pushed the vaccine early but then did a bit of a mealy mouthed 180 on the whole thing.  I assume that was because enough of their voter base did enough internet research to be convinced that this vaccine Trump was bragging up creating and pundits were even teasing naming the "Trump Vaccine" was either a form of government overreach, or just flat-out going to kill you.  Things went from "Look what git-r-done Trump invented!" to "I support medical freedom" pretty quickly.

I wouldn't say conservatives are the only ones who conclusion shop in the internet age, but they seem to be damn good at it.  I'm a bit biased since the only people I know who aren't vaccinated are of the "It will kill you in X number of years" and/or the "It has a microchip and the number of the beast in it" variety.  I knew some reasonable conservatives in the pre-Trump era but due to moving to a more rural area I know a few older folks who are vaccinated "I want my tax break" republicans and a lot of rural dogmatic folks.


Side note, is it hyperbole for me to think that the GOP's best chance of getting back in the white house in 2024 is for the republican-led house to default on our debt and intentionally make things as financially miserable for the working class and then say "Look what Biden did!"

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

I was asked by a medical professional if I had the vaccine. I answered, Yes, three times. They asked if I knew which one I received. I said, “The one with the microchips.”

Of course, I was being a smart ass

[samhain]

(03-11-2023, 10:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump and DeSantis both praised and pushed the vaccine early but then did a bit of a mealy mouthed 180 on the whole thing.  I assume that was because enough of their voter base did enough internet research to be convinced that this vaccine Trump was bragging up creating and pundits were even teasing naming the "Trump Vaccine" was either a form of government overreach, or just flat-out going to kill you.  Things went from "Look what git-r-done Trump invented!" to "I support medical freedom" pretty quickly.

I wouldn't say conservatives are the only ones who conclusion shop in the internet age, but they seem to be damn good at it.  I'm a bit biased since the only people I know who aren't vaccinated are of the "It will kill you in X number of years" and/or the "It has a microchip and the number of the beast in it" variety.  I knew some reasonable conservatives in the pre-Trump era but due to moving to a more rural area I know a few older folks who are vaccinated "I want my tax break" republicans and a lot of rural dogmatic folks.


Side note, is it hyperbole for me to think that the GOP's best chance of getting back in the white house in 2024 is for the republican-led house to default on our debt and intentionally make things as financially miserable for the working class and then say "Look what Biden did!"

That's kind of the rub for the "conservative" movement in the US right now.  

Libs can sit and argue whether Trump or DeSantis are authoritarians all they want, but in the end those guys are just symptoms of bigger problems.  If their base wanted mandatory abortion and legal crack then those guys would be for giving it to them.  They change to ride the wave of a party base that's basically lost it's collective mind.  

Trump figured it out, or at least Steve Bannon did, and he did some serious damage with it.  DeSantis is a more refined and literate version.  He's all in on the culture war, and that's basically the entirety of his campaign.  It has to be.  It's the only shot he has.  

The only principle that consistently exists in the GOP as of right now is that they hate libs and want to screw them over.  That's literally it.  It's not economics or legislation or public health.  It's also not DJT or Ron's fault.  It's the base and it always has been.  

Us libs will forever drive them into insanity.  We are still paying a price for getting president black guy elected in 2008 and we will for the foreseeable future.  To the far right, it was the biggest sin that could be committed against their personal beliefs.

I said it once a year or so ago, and I will say it again.  If the MAGA right could put liberals on trains and kill them in concentration camps they would need very little encouragement to act on the opportunity.  Their current party leaders wouldn't hesitate, either.   It's the reason I don't sell the guns that I own.  They are your neighbors and family, but the signs should not be ignored.  The only reason they haven't done it yet is lack of power, which could change in any given electoral cycle.  

Once McConnell is gone, crazy and weak (McCarthy) will be all that's left in the GOP.  Greene will be a major party leader for years.  You think she would bat an eye about killing a few hundred political opponents?  Would Trump?  Gaetz?  DeSantis?  Jim Jordan? They's shoot a liberal in the head on national TV if it got them elected and they'd lick the bleeding wound for good measure.

[masonbengals fan]

Good grief... & some of you wonder why P&R has taken a downturn. Bat shit crazy post like the above is exactly why.

Sorry rant over...
Bye

[Goalpost]

(03-12-2023, 01:19 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Good grief... & some of you wonder why P&R has taken a downturn. Bat shit crazy post like the above is exactly why.

Sorry rant over...
Bye

same.