The hourly rate you need to afford a two-bedroom apartment in every state

[GMDino]

(06-08-2016, 01:30 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You do realize that more things than just minimum wage effects inflation, right?

Sure.  Everything except when ceo's and management get raises.  

You do realize that doesn't change what I wrote, right?

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 12:45 PM)Beaker Wrote: Is a minimum wage job a career, or a stepping stone?

(06-08-2016, 12:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's supposed to be a stepping stone, but liberals want to make it a career.

So people who are at the "stepping stone" stage do not deserve to have a place to live?

No Liberal wants to make minimum wage jobs a career.  But Liberals don't ignore reality like conservatives.  They understand that people have to live even when they are at the stepping stone stage.

[*Nately120*]

(06-08-2016, 01:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: You make the assumption that the way it was before was right.

I specifically said that I wasn't saying that way was "right." My point is that people are still using outdated jobforce rules and logic to analyze the current jobmarket and its trends.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 01:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sure.  Everything except when ceo's and management get raises.  

You do realize that doesn't change what I wrote, right?

CEO's and management getting raises isn't anywhere as close as raising 3 mil+ people's wages.

Raising minimum wage will only bring people from the middle class down due to inflation. It will only have a temp effect on the poor, and the rich will be mostly unaffected.

[*bfine32*]

(06-08-2016, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So people who are at the "stepping stone" stage do not deserve to have a place to live?

No Liberal wants to make minimum wage jobs a career.  But Liberals don't ignore reality like conservatives.  They understand that people have to live even when they are at the stepping stone stage.

Sure they deserve a place to live. I can only assume you missed the part of why a single person would need a 2 bedroom apartment; as that is what the link cited.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So people who are at the "stepping stone" stage do not deserve to have a place to live?

No Liberal wants to make minimum wage jobs a career.  But Liberals don't ignore reality like conservatives.  They understand that people have to live even when they are at the stepping stone stage.

Good thing we have government assistance programs. Otherwise you might have a point.

[Millhouse]

(06-08-2016, 12:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Can someone that is in favor of raising minimum wage tell me why not raise it to $20 or $25 an hour or more?

Im in favor of the federal wage being increased to $10, and then eventually to $15 over the next 10 years or so. I would be against $20 to $25 at this time because it just too drastic of an increase in the short term.

But I am a sucker for the little person out there, and have always & will always side on the 'trench workers' as opposed to corporate/upper management America when it comes to fairness. Our country has made huge strides from the early 1900's for the common worker for sure, but there is a still some ways to go overal imo.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2016, 01:44 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: CEO's and management getting raises isn't anywhere as close as raising 3 mil+ people's wages.

Raising minimum wage will only bring people from the middle class down due to inflation. It will only have a temp effect on the poor, and the rich will be mostly unaffected.

Then are you for eliminating the minimum wage?

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 01:46 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Good thing we have government assistance programs. Otherwise you might have a point.

I would rather have people work for their living than depend on government hand outs.

Basically we have large corporations making record profits because they can pay workers less than a living wage and force the taxpayers to make up the difference.

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 01:44 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: CEO's and management getting raises isn't anywhere as close as raising 3 mil+ people's wages.

Raising minimum wage will only bring people from the middle class down due to inflation. It will only have a temp effect on the poor, and the rich will be mostly unaffected.

Wrong.

Total gross income in the united states is 8.3 trillion.  Giving 3 million full time workers a $2.50 an hour raise would only cost 15 billion.  That is only an increase of 2 tenths of one percent.  That is not enough to cause any significant increase in inflation.  

Plus corporations may be forced to reduce executive pay in order to pay the increase of minimum wage jobs so that there would be a zero net sum gain.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would rather have people work for their living than depend on government hand outs.

Basically we have large corporations making record profits because they can pay workers less than a living wage and force the taxpayers to make up the difference.

The top 20% pay the vast majority of the taxes(~85%), so what's the difference?

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 02:33 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The top 20% pay the vast majority of the taxes(~85%), so what's the difference?

1.  Not even close to everyone who pays taxes benefits from corporations paying less than a livivng wage.

2.  I don't care who pays the taxes.  I still think the government could spend those tax dollars on something better than subsidizing corporations that don't want to pay a living wage.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.

Total gross income in the united states is 8.3 trillion.  Giving 3 million full time workers a $2.50 an hour raise would only cost 15 billion.  That is only an increase of 2 tenths of one percent.  That is not enough to cause any significant increase in inflation.  

Plus corporations may be forced to reduce executive pay in order to pay the increase of minimum wage jobs so that there would be a zero net sum gain.

It will increase the production cost of the labor since a $2.50 raise would be over 33% increase in cost. You're insane if you think corporations will reduce the amount of money they pay their executives over just increasing the price to cover the increased labor cost. That increased cost for pretty much everything that involves minimum wage jobs would result in the inflation. If companies don't increase the cost of the product / service then they will just eliminate jobs and force their employees to work harder/ more efficiently. Loss of jobs would mean less money flow and increase inflation. Sometimes both will happen too.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2016, 02:46 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It will increase the production cost of the labor since a $2.50 raise would be over 33% increase in cost. You're insane if you think corporations will reduce the amount of money they pay their executives over just increasing the price to cover the increased labor cost. That increased cost for pretty much everything that involves minimum wage jobs would result in the inflation. If companies don't increase the cost of the product / service then they will just eliminate jobs and force their employees to work harder/ more efficiently. Loss of jobs would mean less money flow and increase inflation. Sometimes both will happen too.

Then do you support eliminating the minimum wage?

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Not even close to everyone who pays taxes benefits from corporations paying less than a livivng wage.

2.  I don't care who pays the taxes.  I still think the government could spend those tax dollars on something better than subsidizing corporations that don't want to pay a living wage.

1. Citation please

2. If the government is spending less on "hand outs" then they will be collecting less taxes from the top 20%.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2016, 02:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: 1. Citation please

2. If the government is spending less on "hand outs" then they will be collecting less taxes from the top 20%.

And would that mean higher wages?

And then more inflation?

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 02:46 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It will increase the production cost of the labor since a $2.50 raise would be over 33% increase in cost.

Wrong.

Labor is only a small percentage of total costs, and minimum wages positions are only a small percentage of labor costs.  If a business has 40% of costs devoted to labor and 20% of labor costs go to minimum wage earners then raising the minimum wage by 33% would only be an increase of 3.3% of total costs.

As I already said increasing the wages of 3 million workers by $2.50 an hour would only increase total income in the United States by less than 2 tenths of one percent.  That is not enough to cause a major increase in inflation.

[Brownshoe]

(06-08-2016, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.

Labor is only a small percentage of total costs, and minimum wages positions are only a small percentage of labor costs.  If a business has 40% of costs devoted to labor and 20% of labor costs go to minimum wage earners then raising the minimum wage by 33% would only be an increase of 3.3% of total costs.

As I already said increasing the wages of 3 million workers by $2.50 an hour would only increase total income in the United States by less than 2 tenths of one percent.  That is not enough to cause a major increase in inflation.

You're assuming that they wouldn't be forced to raise the pay for management, and other workers who make a more than minimum wage. That effect will go all the way to the top. Making the company have to raise the price for the good/service a lot more than 3.3%.

It would also increase prices on things like housing since people with minimum wage will bid up the price of housing. Basically putting everyone back in the position they were in except for the middle class who probably didn't get as big of a % increase in their pay as the minimum wage workers. Essentially dragging the middle class down.

[Griever]

(06-08-2016, 03:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You're assuming that they wouldn't be forced to raise the pay for management, and other workers who make a little more than minimum wage. That effect will go all the way to the top. Making the company have to raise the price for the good/service a lot more than 3.3%.

It would also increase prices on housing since people with minimum wage will bid up the price of housing. Basically putting everyone back in the position they were in except for the middle class who probably didn't get as big of a % increase in their pay as the minimum wage workers. Essentially dragging the middle class down.

yeah thats what my assumption has been

they'll get the pay raise, as will everyone else, housing and stuff will go up and they will be in the same position they are now

or they will get the raise, but have their hours cut in half, to where they are still in the same position now

the only way they can win is if they do something about being stuck in the dead in job and finding something better

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2016, 03:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You're assuming that they wouldn't be forced to raise the pay for management, and other workers who make a more than minimum wage. That effect will go all the way to the top. Making the company have to raise the price for the good/service a lot more than 3.3%.

They won't be forced to raise anyone's pay just because people at minimum wage get a raise.  Why would they have to do that?  Wages are based on competition.  Raising the minimum wage will not make wages go up for everyone else.