The hourly rate you need to afford a two-bedroom apartment in every state

[jmccracky]

I drive a car instead of walking to work. That damn elitist entitlement attitude!

I do have a garden. Just hot peppers at the moment though. Cayenne and habaneros. Wonder if Trump or Hillary has ever had a garden?

[GMDino]

(06-12-2016, 08:27 AM)CharvelPlaya Wrote: I drive a car instead of walking to work. That damn elitist entitlement attitude!

I do have a garden. Just hot peppers at the moment though. Cayenne and habaneros. Wonder if Trump or Hillary has ever had a garden?

I stole an apple from the neighbors tree.

Cost of living for the entire nation just went down!

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-11-2016, 11:23 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: 1st.  Just because you think someone shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week doesn't mean a person COULDN'T work 80 hours a week.  The key to this is you don't think, as in your opinion.

Shouldn't and couldn't isn't a debate. My point was in line with your claim that cost of living is too high, in most cases. Something is wrong if a person has to spend every waking minute working just to get by. Whether or not someone choose to, should be an individual choice, not a necessity. 
As an aside, i don't think fast food workers should make $15 an hour.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-12-2016, 01:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why not?

Why shouldn't someone have to spend every waking minute working to get by? Because it's not healthy? Because it seems to be in contrast to the "American Dream"? Because it makes it impossible to be any kind of participant as a father/mother or spouse?

This seems like a trick question... I'm interested to know why you posed it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-12-2016, 06:45 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: This is a great question.... I would love to hear the answer that some will have for it.

Interesting. I'd love to hear why some would ask it. 

[fredtoast]

I agree that everyone should be encouraged to raise a garden, but there is no way there is enough land in large cities for everyone to grow their own food.

Plus, if you look at the cost of production large corporate farmers can produce food cheaper than millions of individuals growing their own food. It works the same way with pretty much everything.  That is why society has evolved they way it has.  Specialization makes everything cheaper for everyone.  It is cheaper for one farmer to buy a tractor and use it to grow 100 acres of wheat than for 100 people to each buy a tractor to grow one acre of wheat each.  In one case it takes one $20K tractor investment to grow 100 acres and in the other case it requires $2 million in tractor investment to grow 100 acres.

There is also the issue of the best use of human skills.  It is easier for one person to spend hundreds of hours to learn how to be a doctor or engineer than to have each individual spend the same number of hours.  Society is MUCH more efficient and costs are much lower when we have specialization.  100 people could learn 100 different skills in the same amount of time it takes 100 people to learn one single skill.

[grampahol]

There are a lot of reasons, but one has to do with building codes in many areas. In many places to build a new home nearly everything in the structure has to be new and of course space requirements. Take a drive through most new housing and you'll see these huge structures that could actually accommodate several families with bedrooms twice the size of the house I grew up in. They're in essence McMansions for about 3 or 4 family members. I grew up in a 4 bedroom house with a living room about the size of most bathrooms today . I can remember the tract housing built in the 50s and 60s, just one floor, one roof, but try to find one on today's market and you'll be damned hard pressed to find one instead you'll find multiple roofs on a half acre of completely useless land where all of the top soil has been stripped off.. But don't forget the privacy fences.. Everyone has to have a privacy fence so the neighbors don't see the weeds growing in your backyard..

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-13-2016, 11:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree that everyone should be encouraged to raise a garden, but there is no way there is enough land in large cities for everyone to grow their own food.

Plus, if you look at the cost of production large corporate farmers can produce food cheaper than millions of individuals growing their own food. It works the same way with pretty much everything.  That is why society has evolved they way it has.  Specialization makes everything cheaper for everyone.  It is cheaper for one farmer to buy a tractor and use it to grow 100 acres of wheat than for 100 people to each buy a tractor to grow one acre of wheat each.  In one case it takes one $20K tractor investment to grow 100 acres and in the other case it requires $2 million in tractor investment to grow 100 acres.

There is also the issue of the best use of human skills.  It is easier for one person to spend hundreds of hours to learn how to be a doctor or engineer than to have each individual spend the same number of hours.  Society is MUCH more efficient and costs are much lower when we have specialization.  100 people could learn 100 different skills in the same amount of time it takes 100 people to learn one single skill.

I have been gardening for 5 years now and I haven't needed a tractor.

Seriously, if anyone thinks not being able to get a tractor is a reason why gardening is feasible should just stop.

The only reason to need to grow up to 100 acres of food is for the production of it, if you are just growing your own food you can get by with less than 1 quarter acre.

Here are some videos to check out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DMylpQqVKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKNuoYCdue4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKNuoYCdue4


It is easier than you think, but there is still work involved.  A lot of what I learned was from trial an error.


I don't have chickens, but I do know someone who does.  They don't grow garlic and tomatoes, but I do.  We trade for what we don't have, I give 2 buckets of tomatoes and 1 bag of garlic for 2 dozen eggs.  I have plenty of tomatoes and garlic left over.  I do still go to the grocery store but I spend roughly $30-$40 a month instead of $100-$200 a month.

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-13-2016, 12:44 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why shouldn't someone have to spend every waking minute working to get by? Because it's not healthy? Because it seems to be in contrast to the "American Dream"? Because it makes it impossible to be any kind of participant as a father/mother or spouse?

This seems like a trick question... I'm interested to know why you posed it.

I would suggest you wake up.  Sleeping for so long isn't good for you.

Look for someone with a red pill, it acts as a stimulant.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-13-2016, 08:36 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I would suggest you wake up.  Sleeping for so long isn't good for you.

Look for someone with a red pill, it acts as a stimulant.

None of this makes any sense in response to what i posted.

[GMDino]

(06-13-2016, 09:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: None of this makes any sense in response to what i posted.

Do drugs and your cost of living will go down.

Or you'll end up homeless and won't have to worry about an apartment.

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-13-2016, 09:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: None of this makes any sense in response to what i posted.

Well you're still "dreaming".  That's why it doesn't make sense. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-13-2016, 12:44 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why shouldn't someone have to spend every waking minute working to get by? Because it's not healthy? Because it seems to be in contrast to the "American Dream"? Because it makes it impossible to be any kind of participant as a father/mother or spouse?

This seems like a trick question... I'm interested to know why you posed it.

I'm not sure 80 hours a week is "every waking minute". Many small business owners work 80 hours or more per week. Hell I spent over 20 years in the Military and a typical day was around 14 hours (5-7). Sometimes more, sometimes less. This does not count time in the field or deployed. I could do 80 hours in about 4 days. A firefighter works in excess of 50 hours each week. Farmers probably do about 100 hours a week.  

If that's what it takes to get by, that's what it takes to get by; nobody owes you anything. You mention family; you do realize an man and wife each working 40 hours a week is 80 hours. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-13-2016, 10:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure 80 hours a week is "every waking minute". Many small business owners work 80 hours or more per week. Hell I spent over 20 years in the Military and a typical day was around 14 hours (5-7). Sometimes more, sometimes less. This does not count time in the field or deployed. I could do 80 hours in about 4 days. A firefighter works in excess of 50 hours each week. Farmers probably do about 100 hours a week.  

If that's what it takes to get by, that's what it takes to get by; nobody owes you anything. You mention family; you do realize an man and wife each working 40 hours a week is 80 hours. 

This forum truly boggles the mind sometimes...

Two people working 40 hours isn't one person working 80 hours. 

Besides all that...the examples you gave are a bit different than your average American working those hours. It's pretty obvious that some people need/want to work that much for various reasons. 

I just erased about 2 paragraphs because it dawned on me that the disconnect is between an individual and their willingness to better themselves or to adjust their lifestyle, vs my statement that someone shouldn't have to work 80 hours a week to get by, in detriment to having any kind of life outside work. Apples and Oranges. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-13-2016, 10:06 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Well you're still "dreaming".  That's why it doesn't make sense. 

No. I'm certain that it's you that doesn't make sense. 

[fredtoast]

(06-13-2016, 08:34 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I have been gardening for 5 years now and I haven't needed a tractor.

Seriously, if anyone thinks not being able to get a tractor is a reason why gardening is feasible should just stop.

The only reason to need to grow up to 100 acres of food is for the production of it, if you are just growing your own food you can get by with less than 1 quarter acre.

Here are some videos to check out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DMylpQqVKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKNuoYCdue4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKNuoYCdue4


It is easier than you think, but there is still work involved.  A lot of what I learned was from trial an error.


I don't have chickens, but I do know someone who does.  They don't grow garlic and tomatoes, but I do.  We trade for what we don't have, I give 2 buckets of tomatoes and 1 bag of garlic for 2 dozen eggs.  I have plenty of tomatoes and garlic left over.  I do still go to the grocery store but I spend roughly $30-$40 a month instead of $100-$200 a month.

First of all you don't raise all the food you eat.

Second, many people don't have access to any land at all.  The population of New York City is over 8 million.  Even if each person could grow all the food they need on 1/4 acre (which is not true) then  that would require 2 million acres of land.

I grow a garden.  I think everyone should have a garden.  But I know that it will never work for everyone to try and grow all the food they need.

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-16-2016, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all you don't raise all the food you eat.

Second, many people don't have access to any land at all.  The population of New York City is over 8 million.  Even if each person could grow all the food they need on 1/4 acre (which is not true) then  that would require 2 million acres of land.

I grow a garden.  I think everyone should have a garden.  But I know that it will never work for everyone to try and grow all the food they need.

You are correct I don't grow all my food. I have even stated that I don't. The point was lowering my cost of living which my anecdotal evidence shows.

Now I have never claimed that a person needed 1/4 acre to grow everything, only that quite a but could be grown on that amount of land.

I will also tell you that aquaponics can be used in smaller spaces than you think. I have already posted some videos, feel free to watch more.

The point again is to lower MY cost of living and encouraging others to do the same. Lowering the cost of living of people will help more than raising the minimum wage.

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-13-2016, 10:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. I'm certain that it's you that doesn't make sense. 

That's because you haven't taken your red pull and you are still dreaming.

[BmorePat87]

He's Morpheus... except, you know...

[*Nately120*]

(06-16-2016, 01:23 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: That's because you haven't taken your red pull and you are still dreaming.

Is Red Pull the Korean knock-off version of Red Bull?  I wouldn't drink that stuff if I were you.