The population "nobody" cares about

[*bfine32*]

One of the points I've always tried to make in threads about terror is how "nobody" cares about the ongoings in Africa.

7500 were killed in Nigeria alone due to terrorism in 2014. Here's a complete report if anyone wants to read:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239404.htm

What brought this to mind is this that happened in Somalia today and I doubt it will get much play:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239404.htm

I have read (no link and could be wrong) that the EU is now pulling support from Africa's fight against terror, because they now have to deal with it more within their own borders.

No point other than to bring attention to a population that I feel is getting ignored and to get anyone else's thought on the ongoings in the continent.

[Benton]

We do supply intelligence to those areas. We just don't have troops. Personally I'd prefer we helped people fight terrorism through Intel more than boots and bullets.

[Sovereign Nation]

(06-25-2016, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One of the points I've always tried to make in threads about terror is how "nobody" cares about the ongoings in Africa.

7500 were killed in Nigeria alone due to terrorism in 2014. Here's a complete report if anyone wants to read:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239404.htm

What brought this to mind is this that happened in Somalia today and I doubt it will get much play:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239404.htm

I have read (no link and could be wrong) that the EU is now pulling support from Africa's fight against terror, because they now have to deal with it more within their own borders.

No point other than to bring attention to a population that I feel is getting ignored and to get anyone else's thought on the ongoings in the continent.

This is very accurate. I know that I have posted about atrocities in Africa, however some on this board just brushed it off as not important.

[Belsnickel]

I have given to aid initiatives to provide assistance in those areas, but to be quite frank, I don't want our government involved. I don't like our country being an international police force. There are atrocities occurring all over the world and I'm tired of our government picking and choosing. I would rather we not involve ourselves in such things unless there is a direct threat to us. We have issues that need addressing here.

[BmorePat87]

Can't save the whole world.

[*bfine32*]

I get the passive approach and I know we can't "save the world" it's just the fighter in me that would love to protect those that are dying by the thousands. We are so spoiled as a Nation that our biggest concern is which bathroom we can use. Hell there are millions around the world that would just love to have a bathroom to use.

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2016, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get the passive approach and I know we can't "save the world" it's just the fighter in me that would love to protect those that are dying by the thousands. We are so spoiled as a Nation that our biggest concern is which bathroom we can use. Hell there are millions around the world that would just love to have a bathroom to use.

That's far from our biggest concern, that's just what some would like us to think is our biggest concern. Off the top of my head:
Homeless problems all across the country, disproportionately impacting those that have served the country.
Inadequate mental health care.
The inability for many to afford basic health care.
Food insecurity in areas all across the country while we consistently waste food in other places.
A country in debt to its people, and its people in debt to financial institutions. One big nation of debt.
The list could ho on and on...

We don't have the murder rates and violence that exists in some of those countries, but the money that would be spent by our government in those places could very well go towards at least helping to solve some of these problems our own citizens face.

[Millhouse]

(06-25-2016, 08:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's far from our biggest concern, that's just what some would like us to think is our biggest concern. Off the top of my head:
Homeless problems all across the country, disproportionately impacting those that have served the country.
Inadequate mental health care.
The inability for many to afford basic health care.
Food insecurity in areas all across the country while we consistently waste food in other places.
A country in debt to its people, and its people in debt to financial institutions. One big nation of debt.
The list could ho on and on...

We don't have the murder rates and violence that exists in some of those countries, but the money that would be spent by our government in those places could very well go towards at least helping to solve some of these problems our own citizens face.

I agree but I think there is even a far greater concern that trumps all of those, which is putting our troops on the ground which would result in casualties (in Africa). I cant imagine the American public being for any troop intervention over there that would cost American lives regardless of how noble the cause without us being attacked first. 

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2016, 08:37 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree but I think there is even a far greater concern that trumps all of those, which is putting our troops on the ground which would result in casualties (in Africa). I cant imagine the American public being for any troop intervention over there that would cost American lives regardless of how noble the cause without us being attacked first. 

I am confused, were you intending to disagree with me or just add another layer to my argument?

[Benton]

(06-25-2016, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get the passive approach and I know we can't "save the world" it's just the fighter in me that would love to protect those that are dying by the thousands. We are so spoiled as a Nation that our biggest concern is which bathroom we can use. Hell there are millions around the world that would just love to have a bathroom to use.

I appreciate the thoughts, but we've already got people dying by the thousands. People here dont have it perfect, they just have a different set of problems. We can help other countries by providing ways to clean drinking water, education, etc.

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2016, 08:37 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree but I think there is even a far greater concern that trumps all of those, which is putting our troops on the ground which would result in casualties (in Africa). I cant imagine the American public being for any troop intervention over there that would cost American lives regardless of how noble the cause without us being attacked first. 

I think you have hit on the main reason. If the pilots of the 911 attacks had been from Africa, we'd be knee deep in there. 

[BmorePat87]

(06-25-2016, 07:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get the passive approach and I know we can't "save the world" it's just the fighter in me that would love to protect those that are dying by the thousands. We are so spoiled as a Nation that our biggest concern is which bathroom we can use. Hell there are millions around the world that would just love to have a bathroom to use.

It would be nice if we had the resources and means of protecting everyone who was victimized. We have far too many at home who are struggling, though. 

[Millhouse]

(06-25-2016, 10:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am confused, were you intending to disagree with me or just add another layer to my argument?

Add another layer to it. 

[Bengalzona]

It is absolutely a population that is routinely ignored by most of the developed world. China has spent more time and money on the continent than we have. They have a pretty good name in Africa. The only time we've cared that much about Africa was during the Cold War when we decided to play the Proxy Wars game there with the Soviets in the 60's though the 80's. But generally we've deferred to the British and their colonial/post-colonial links on the continent (Egypt, South Africa, Botswana, etc.). Every time there is a new initiative to take action on the continent, someone in Congress asks "Why?" and it is quickly shelved.

I will say this, though. The Bush and Obama Admins have done some good behind-the-scenes the work in recent years in Africa. The exit of the Soviets/Russians from the continent has helped greatly too. After some of our debacles in the 90's (Somalia, Rwanda - where we did absolutely nothing, etc.), our efforts have concentrated on establishing some stable governments (some, but certainly not all) and on establishing a multi-national African force to police their own continent. That infra-structure has been coming into place. Between the establishment of the African Union and the creation of the African Standby Force, these efforts are bearing fruit. I don't think many Americans are aware of what we have been up to over there. I encourage you guys to look up the AU and ASF. These efforts are far better than sending troops and weapons (although we do have military advisors throughout the continent).

I have a high school buddy who is a Major and an anesthesiologist assigned to AFRICOM. He has spent most of his time there over the past 10 years and has a good understanding of what things are like on the ground.

[Belsnickel]

(06-26-2016, 02:10 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I have a high school buddy who is a Major and an anesthesiologist assigned to AFRICOM. He has spent most of his time there over the past 10 years and has a good understanding of what things are like on the ground.

This is what helps you a lot, here, because this stuff really doesn't even get much play in our media. They aren't our neighbors, they aren't at war with us, they don't look like is, so we often have to dig for any news on Africa. I get a fair amount of information about Nigeria because the Church of the Brethren does a lot of mission work there and so I still hear things through those connections. I have people I grew up with over there right now.

[NATI BENGALS]

I thought Boko Haram was the name of an evil villian for the longest time.

We can only do so much. Going in and nation building honestly seems like a waste of time. We need to take care of our own country first. We give food and medicine and it gets jacked by the bad guys.

Show them how to grow food and produce electricity. As far as arming them and fighting their wars for them... Pass.

[Bengalzona]

(06-26-2016, 07:30 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: They aren't our neighbors, they aren't at war with us, they don't look like us...

^This.

Our public generally doesn't want to know what is going on Africa. They see it as a dark, dirty continent filled with disease, murder, rampaging man-eating animals, starving and vicious black people, etc. I suspect even Antarctica is a more popular media place in America than Africa. That's not going to change overnight.

But to their credit, the policies started by W. Bush and continued by Obama are taking hold. Indirect nation-building assistance where the populations themselves lead the process is proving successful and is the blueprint to the future. 

The biggest problem there right now is radical Islam in the north. A lot of nations in central Africa have mixed populations of Muslims and Christians. They are walking a tightrope. They want to crack-down on the extremists while at the same time not alienate the Muslim portions of their populations. Also, how effective can your military be at fighting extremists in a particular religion when half of the people in the military are in that religion. 

The other big problem is political corruption. That's gonna take years to deal with. You never really can get rid of it, just get it to a more acceptable level. 

[Benton]

(06-26-2016, 02:10 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: It is absolutely a population that is routinely ignored by most of the developed world. China has spent more time and money on the continent than we have. They have a pretty good name in Africa. The only time we've cared that much about Africa was during the Cold War when we decided to play the Proxy Wars game there with the Soviets in the 60's though the 80's. But generally we've deferred to the British and their colonial/post-colonial links on the continent (Egypt, South Africa, Botswana, etc.). Every time there is a new initiative to take action on the continent, someone in Congress asks "Why?" and it is quickly shelved.

I will say this, though. The Bush and Obama Admins have done some good behind-the-scenes the work in recent years in Africa. The exit of the Soviets/Russians from the continent has helped greatly too. After some of our debacles in the 90's (Somalia, Rwanda - where we did absolutely nothing, etc.), our efforts have concentrated on establishing some stable governments (some, but certainly not all) and on establishing a multi-national African force to police their own continent. That infra-structure has been coming into place. Between the establishment of the African Union and the creation of the African Standby Force, these efforts are bearing fruit. I don't think many Americans are aware of what we have been up to over there. I encourage you guys to look up the AU and ASF. These efforts are far better than sending troops and weapons (although we do have military advisors throughout the continent).

I have a high school buddy who is a Major and an anesthesiologist assigned to AFRICOM. He has spent most of his time there over the past 10 years and has a good understanding of what things are like on the ground.

This is much more in depth than my thoughts earlier, and I appreciate someone articulating that. I think we've done more good for Africa in the last 20 years than we've done for anyone else in twice that time. Giving countries the tools they need and supporting their cooperation will go very far toward their own stability.

[Rotobeast]

I just have to bluntly ask....
Why is it so much more important to bring in Syrian immigrants than African ?

Have many not been war-torn longer ?

[Bengalzona]

(06-26-2016, 11:34 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I just have to bluntly ask....
Why is it so much more important to bring in Syrian immigrants than African ?

Have many not been war-torn longer ?

Syria is closer to most of Europe and most of the African countries in crisis are located far inland on the other side of the Sahara. It is a logistical problem for them just to get to a place just to seek refuge.  

But long before the Syrian crisis, Italy was having serious immigration issues with refugees from Tunisia and Libya just after the Arab Spring. They petitioned the EU for help. I think France offered some support, but I'm not sure what happened with the rest of the EU.